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Post by jimmie on Aug 11, 2014 9:08:12 GMT -8
A few more thoughts on musical instruments.
(James 5:13 KJV) Is any among you afflicted? let him pray. Is any merry? let him sing psalms.
We are instructed to sing the psalms in the NT. Look at (Psa 33:2 KJV) Praise the LORD with harp: sing unto him with the psaltery and an instrument of ten strings. Should we not sing the psalms the way they instruct us to?
(Rom 15:9 KJV) And that the Gentiles might glorify God for his mercy; as it is written, For this cause I will confess to thee among the Gentiles, and sing unto thy name.
That is written in (2 Sam 22:50 KJV) Therefore I will give thanks unto thee, O LORD, among the heathen, and I will sing praises unto thy name. (Psa 18:49 KJV) Therefore will I give thanks unto thee, O LORD, among the heathen, and sing praises unto thy name. Again, if the NT references the OT in instructing us to sing, why not sing how the OT allows?
(1 Cor 14:15 KJV) What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also.
What does sing mean?
A To utter a series of words or sounds in musical tones. B To produce musical sounds when played. I.e. boy he can make that piano sing.
Sing, in the above NT verses is from 5567. psallo, psal'-lo; prob. strengthened from psao (to rub or touch the surface; comp. G5597); to twitch or twang, i.e. to play on a stringed instrument (celebrate the divine worship with music and accompanying odes):--make melody, sing (psalms).
Sing, in the above OT verses is from 2167. zamar, zaw-mar'; a prim, root [perh. ident. with H2168 through the idea of striking with the fingers]; prop. to touch the strings or parts of a musical instrument, i.e. play upon it; to make music, accompanied by the voice; hence to celebrate in song and music:--give praise, sing forth praises, psalms.
So the English word “sing”, the Greek word “psallo” and the Hebrew word “zamar” have intrinsic to their meaning the use of musical instruments.
(Heb 2:12 KJV) Saying, I will declare thy name unto my brethren, in the midst of the church will I sing praise unto thee.
5214. humneo, hoom-neh'-o; from G5215; to hymn, i.e. sing a religious ode; by impl. to celebrate (God) in song:--sing an hymn (praise unto). 5215. humnos, hoom'-nos; appar. from a simpler (obsol.) form of hudeo (to celebrate; prob. akin to G103; comp. G5567); a "hymn" or religious ode (one of the Psalms):--hymn.
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Post by jimmie on Aug 8, 2014 5:32:30 GMT -8
he stated it is the fact that no musical instruments is ever being mentioned as being used in worship or anything in the NT. Moriah Ruth This is a fallacy. You can't prove a prohibition from silence. Some NT mentions of instruments. (1 Cor 13:1 KJV) Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal. (1 Cor 14:7 KJV) And even things without life giving sound, whether pipe or harp, except they give a distinction in the sounds, how shall it be known what is piped or harped? 8 For if the trumpet give an uncertain sound, who shall prepare himself to the battle?
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Post by jimmie on Aug 5, 2014 14:06:38 GMT -8
The Creation Museum is ran by Answers in Genesis. They basically view science through Genesis. They are young earth creationist. You can view their site here: answersingenesis.org/
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Post by jimmie on Aug 5, 2014 14:00:10 GMT -8
Welcome aboard.
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Post by jimmie on Aug 4, 2014 9:10:01 GMT -8
So nobody is going to call me on this? I thought sure jimmie would have been hammerin' on me by now; "alon, you're crazy! You missed out the "(be had in) reverence (-end) part! Can't we love God because we hold Him in reverence? And "terrible" didn't mean bad back when Strong compiled his book of words- it mean mighty, awesome, great! So we can revere our awesome, and mighty great God and love Him because of these things too!"
So now while everyone is agreeing with that, let me add this- admit it, aren't you just a little bit afraid too?
Dan (well ) C Alon, I have been on vacation. I went to the Creation Museum in Kentucky. Very good place to visit. Their motto is “God created and I believe.” As is the case with most words English, Hebrew or others, they have more than one meaning. In this case we have: Fear: Extreme reverence or awe, as toward a supreme power. Reverence is from respect from the Latin respecere, re (back or again) and sperece (to look). If you are going to fear/reverence/respect God, it will take more than a glance. (Exo 3:3 KJV) And Moses said, I will now turn aside, and see this great sight, why the bush is not burnt.
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Post by jimmie on Jul 28, 2014 5:10:05 GMT -8
Moriah Ruth
(1 Cor 12:26 KJV) And whether one member suffer, all the members suffer with it; or one member be honoured, all the members rejoice with it.
You all will be in our prayers.
Jimmie
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Post by jimmie on Jul 24, 2014 6:41:51 GMT -8
Eight of the points were taken form Rabbi Moshe Reiss’ paper on Jephthah and can be viewed here: www.moshereiss.org/articles/21_jephthah.htmThe other seven are mine. I think it is time to appeal to Robert’s - err, I mean - Reuel’s Rules of Order and suspend this discussion as we appear to be at an impasse hear.
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Post by jimmie on Jul 23, 2014 13:27:17 GMT -8
[ I think something this momentous would have gotten more than just a passing mention. Dan C Quite the contrary: why would anything this blatantly obvious need dwelling on. Lets review Jephthah’s story and compare/contrast it with Abraham’s which are the mirror opposites of each other. 1. Abraham comes from a respectable family while Jephthah is illegitimate. 2. Abraham’s child is named Isaac, Jephthah’s daughter is unnamed; perhaps related to her father’s illegitimate status. 3. God is testing Abraham’s faith, Jephthah’s vow can be seen as originating from his lack of faith, thus he is testing God. 4. Abraham prepares for war as soon as he hears about Lot being taken captive- Jephthah has to be goaded by the elders to take up arms to defend his kin. 5. Abraham refuses the spoils of war- Jephthah’s desires to be set up as ruler as reward for his victory. 6. Abraham’s victory brings peace- Jephthah’s victory brings civil war. 7. Those delivered by Abraham are later destroyed by God- those delivered by Jephthah are later destroyed by Jephthah. 8. Abraham consoles his son ‘God will provide the sheep for the burnt offering’ (Gen. 22:8); Jephthah does not console his daughter but blames her and bemoans his own fate. 9. An Angel appears to save Isaac, girls appear to lament Jephthah’s daughter. 10. Abraham description has all the requisite facts to understand the story and its implications; Jephthah’s story is full of ambiguities. 11. Jephthah daughter was his only child; his vow results in the end of his family line. In the case of Abraham the result is the opposite; his agreement to sacrifice his son Isaac results in countless progeny. 12. Abraham’s child is male- Jephthah’s child is female. 13. Abraham’s child lives- Jepthah’s child dies. 14. Abraham live about 60 years after offering Isaac- Jephthah lives six years after sacrificing his daughter. 15. Abraham is buried in the cave of Machpelah- Jephthah was buried in (one of) the city’s of Gilead indicating his burial site was unknown, or as Jewish tradition would have it, his body was divided and buried in multiple cities. In my studies I have found that both Jewish and Christian commentaries support the literal story that Jephthah killed his daughter until the rise of monasticism in the catholic church of the 1100's. Then the catholics used the story to support the monastic practice of perpetual virginity and the Jews wanted to distance themselves from the old Christian habit of using Jephthah’s daughter as a foreshadow of Christ’s death.
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Post by jimmie on Jul 22, 2014 14:33:06 GMT -8
[You quote sins, which are called such and worse in the passages given, to support human sacrifice? There was NO place where human sacrifice was commanded or condoned by God except Calvary! I have never quoted anything in support of human sacrifice. Only that it was performed at times by the Hebrews. Jephthah being one recorded incident among others. I think God did command Abraham to sacrifice his son, but only as a means to repudiate the practice not to encourage it. Lev 26 KJV)29 And ye shall eat the flesh of your sons, and the flesh of your daughters shall ye eat. 30 And I will destroy your high places, and cut down your images, and cast your carcases upon the carcases of your idols, and my soul shall abhor you. The killing of one own children is what happens as result of not following God's law. Not unlike abortions today.
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Shaving
Jul 21, 2014 9:09:55 GMT -8
Post by jimmie on Jul 21, 2014 9:09:55 GMT -8
A few times when shaving is required. If at times you are required to shave does it follow that you should have something to shave? (Lev 14:9 KJV) But it shall be on the seventh day, that he shall shave all his hair off his head and his beard and his , even all his hair he shall shave off: and he shall wash his clothes, also he shall wash his flesh in water, and he shall be clean. (Num 6:9 KJV) And if any man die very suddenly by him, and he hath defiled the head of his consecration; then he shall shave his head in the day of his cleansing, on the seventh day shall he shave it. (Num 6:18 KJV) And the Nazarite shall shave the head of his separation at the door of the tabernacle of the congregation, and shall take the hair of the head of his separation, and put it in the fire which is under the sacrifice of the peace offerings. (Deu 21:12 KJV) Then thou shalt bring her home to thine house; and she shall shave her head, and pare her nails; Read more: theloveofgod.proboards.com/thread/3431/jephthah#ixzz387jnaiA0
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Post by jimmie on Jul 21, 2014 5:40:03 GMT -8
but learning is winning in my book, so thanks for the lesson, ya'll.
Dan C Mine too.
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Post by jimmie on Jul 18, 2014 10:11:20 GMT -8
Here's a quote from Rabbi Yechiel Eckstein of the IFCJ:[
Edit: if I'm wrong about that, feel free to point out where it is used by man of God and I'll thankfully go add to my "I Was Wrong" thread. (Jer 3:4 KJV) Wilt thou not from this time cry unto me, My father, thou art the guide of my youth? (Jer 3:19 KJV) But I said, How shall I put thee among the children, and give thee a pleasant land, a goodly heritage of the hosts of nations? and I said, Thou shalt call me, My father; and shalt not turn away from me.
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Post by jimmie on Jul 18, 2014 7:52:28 GMT -8
Cream of chicken soup and some others.
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Post by jimmie on Jul 18, 2014 7:42:44 GMT -8
alon,
In order not to derail the thread on beards could you relocate the relevent post about Jephthah to here.
For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all. For he that said, Do not sacrifice your children, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no child sacrifice, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.
My point is both Jephthah and David transgressed the law. Even if your hypothesis is correct, Jephthah transgressed God’s command to be fruitful and multiply by forcing his daughter to become a perpetual virgin. The catholics use the hypothesis that Jephthah’s daughter was a perpetual virgin to support their system of convents for women. Of course they also use the “Acts of Peter and Thechla.” To force a woman to be a perpetual virgin is worse than killing her. Witness Rachael’s words.
Gen 30:1 ...; and said unto Jacob, Give me children, or else I die.
Jephthah killed 42,000 fleeing Ephraimites for opposing him. Would you be the priest to stand up to him? I like to think I would be able to. But no priest was “needed” for the sacrifice of his daughter. He could have taken matters into his own hands Like Saul did. Scripture said he did it not a priest.
Jug. 11:39 And it came to pass at the end of two months, that she returned unto her father, who did with her according to his vow which he had vowed: and she knew no man. And it was a custom in Israel,
Another counter point to her being a perpetual virgin is the fact that others dedicated to service in the tabernacle were not constrained to be so. Witness Samuel who had two sons.
I am not trying to give Jephthah the short shaft. I am trying to see him for what he was. He gathered vain men unto himself. Birds of the feather tend to flock together. Did he perform mighty deeds? Yes in deed! Did he exhibit great knowledge of Scripture? For sure! Did he have failings in regard to the treatment of his daughter? Yep! I don’t try to hide his failings. Nor the fact that David killed someone to hid his sin with the man’s wife. Nor the fact that Samson consorted with hamlets. I acknowledge their sins as well as my own and try to walk closer to God.
Ex 34:6 And the LORD passed by before him, and proclaimed, The LORD, The LORD God, merciful and gracious, longsuffering, and abundant in goodness and truth, 7 Keeping mercy for thousands, forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin, and that will by no means clear the guilty; visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children, and upon the children's children, unto the third and to the fourth generation.
Did Jephthah receive forgiveness for his iniquity, transgression and sin? That is what God does not only for him but us as well. Will God refuse to clear Jephthah’s guilt? God also does that for him as well as us. There we have the two groups. The saved and unsaved.
P.S.
Record of other human sacrifices by Hebrews:
(2 Ki 16:3 KJV) But he walked in the way of the kings of Israel, yea, and made his son to pass through the fire, according to the abominations of the heathen, whom the LORD cast out from before the children of Israel.
(2 Ki 23:10 KJV) And he defiled Topheth, which is in the valley of the children of Hinnom, that no man might make his son or his daughter to pass through the fire to Molech.
(2 Chr 28:3 KJV) Moreover he burnt incense in the valley of the son of Hinnom, and burnt his children in the fire, after the abominations of the heathen whom the LORD had cast out before the children of Israel.
(2 Chr 33:6 KJV) And he caused his children to pass through the fire in the valley of the son of Hinnom: also he observed times, and used enchantments, and used witchcraft, and dealt with a familiar spirit, and with wizards: he wrought much evil in the sight of the LORD, to provoke him to anger.
(Jer 32:35 KJV) And they built the high places of Baal, which are in the valley of the son of Hinnom, to cause their sons and their daughters to pass through the fire unto Molech; which I commanded them not, neither came it into my mind, that they should do this abomination, to cause Judah to sin.
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Post by jimmie on Jul 17, 2014 13:46:51 GMT -8
[ She was probably given over to the priests for a life of temple service, remaining a virgin all her life. The High Priest would not have allowed this sacrifice to happen as the law against human sacrifice was the higher mitzoth. Dan CWhy is it so hard to believe that Jephthah killed his daughter? Didn’t David have someone killed? 2 Tim 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: Why not just accept the reproof of the story? Don’t make any stupid vows and if you do follow the law. Lev 5:4 Or if a soul swear, pronouncing with his lips to do evil, or to do good, whatsoever it be that a man shall pronounce with an oath, and it be hid from him; when he knoweth of it, then he shall be guilty in one of these. 5 And it shall be, when he shall be guilty in one of these things, that he shall confess that he hath sinned in that thing: 6 And he shall bring his trespass offering unto the LORD for his sin which he hath sinned, a female from the flock, a lamb or a kid of the goats, for a sin offering; and the priest shall make an atonement for him concerning his sin. Jephthah could have redeem his daughter but was to proud to do so. And there was no temple for her to serve in. Even so, Jephthah's children would have been bared from the service of the congregation unto the tenth generation.
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