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Post by jimmie on Jul 17, 2014 13:46:51 GMT -8
[ She was probably given over to the priests for a life of temple service, remaining a virgin all her life. The High Priest would not have allowed this sacrifice to happen as the law against human sacrifice was the higher mitzoth.
Dan CWhy is it so hard to believe that Jephthah killed his daughter? Didn’t David have someone killed? 2 Tim 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: Why not just accept the reproof of the story? Don’t make any stupid vows and if you do follow the law. Lev 5:4 Or if a soul swear, pronouncing with his lips to do evil, or to do good, whatsoever it be that a man shall pronounce with an oath, and it be hid from him; when he knoweth of it, then he shall be guilty in one of these. 5 And it shall be, when he shall be guilty in one of these things, that he shall confess that he hath sinned in that thing: 6 And he shall bring his trespass offering unto the LORD for his sin which he hath sinned, a female from the flock, a lamb or a kid of the goats, for a sin offering; and the priest shall make an atonement for him concerning his sin. Jephthah could have redeem his daughter but was to proud to do so. And there was no temple for her to serve in. Even so, Jephthah's children would have been bared from the service of the congregation unto the tenth generation. |
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Post by alon on Jul 17, 2014 16:44:40 GMT -8
[ She was probably given over to the priests for a life of temple service, remaining a virgin all her life. The High Priest would not have allowed this sacrifice to happen as the law against human sacrifice was the higher mitzoth.
Dan CWhy is it so hard to believe that Jephthah killed his daughter?
Deuteronomy 12:31 You must not do this to ADONAI your God! For they have done to their gods all the abominations that ADONAI hates! They even burn up their sons and daughters in the fire for their gods! 32 "Everything I am commanding you, you are to take care to do. Do not add to it or subtract from it.
Deuteronomy 18:10 10 There must not be found among you anyone who makes his son or daughter pass through fire, a diviner, a soothsayer, an enchanter, a sorcerer,
2 Kings 21:6 (ESV) 6 And he burned his son as an offering and used fortune-telling and omens and dealt with mediums and with necromancers. He did much evil in the sight of the Lord, provoking him to anger.
Leviticus 18:21 There must not be found among you anyone who makes his son or daughter pass through fire,
Jeremiah 7:31 They have built the high places of Tofet in the Ben-Hinnom Valley, to burn their sons and daughters in the fire, something I never ordered; in fact, such a thing never even entered my mind!
If you mean Uriah the Hittite, that was murder, not sacrifice. David also had others killed in the line of duty as heir apparent and as king, but even his enemies were not sacrificed. There's a difference in sacrificing and killing.
I do accept all the instruction AND reproof. Jeptha didn't get off scott-free. His daughter never married and so never gave him grandchildren. He had to live with the fact that she paid for his vow too. She was probably taken for Temple service. But any way you look at it, human sacrifice was and is illegal. The Cohen HaGodal would have said NO! when he brought her for sacrifice, if indeed he did. Probably the problem was taken up with the Cohen HaGodal at the outset, but we are not told.
And before you say "SEE!", consider that neither are we given an account of her death at either her father's or the priests hands! Surely the only actual Hebrew human sacrifice other than Yeshua would have been important enough to record! And there's the rub- Biblically, there was and is only one acceptable human sacrifice, an' dat sho'nuff ain' ole' japtha's dawta!
They be talkin' 'bout a whole different kinda' kid there. Sorry.
I think you're giving Jeptha short shrift here. Why do you say he could redeem her? And your assumption that he was too proud is unfounded in scripture, based partly on the assumptions you made being correct- which they are not, and pure speculation. He gave credit to God, so he doesn't appear to be a prideful individual. So I wouldn't want to speculate on him being too prideful.
This much is still true; still the moral of the story. If you make a vow, don't leave any of the conditions open to chance! And be careful about making vows in the first place.
Dan C |
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Post by Questor on Jul 18, 2014 0:07:59 GMT -8
Why is it so hard to believe that Jephthah killed his daughter?
Deuteronomy 12:31 You must not do this to ADONAI your God! For they have done to their gods all the abominations that ADONAI hates! They even burn up their sons and daughters in the fire for their gods! 32 "Everything I am commanding you, you are to take care to do. Do not add to it or subtract from it.
Deuteronomy 18:10 10 There must not be found among you anyone who makes his son or daughter pass through fire, a diviner, a soothsayer, an enchanter, a sorcerer,
2 Kings 21:6 (ESV) 6 And he burned his son as an offering and used fortune-telling and omens and dealt with mediums and with necromancers. He did much evil in the sight of the Lord, provoking him to anger.
Leviticus 18:21 There must not be found among you anyone who makes his son or daughter pass through fire,
Jeremiah 7:31 They have built the high places of Tofet in the Ben-Hinnom Valley, to burn their sons and daughters in the fire, something I never ordered; in fact, such a thing never even entered my mind!
If you mean Uriah the Hittite, that was murder, not sacrifice. David also had others killed in the line of duty as heir apparent and as king, but even his enemies were not sacrificed. There's a difference in sacrificing and killing.
I do accept all the instruction AND reproof. Jeptha didn't get off scott-free. His daughter never married and so never gave him grandchildren. He had to live with the fact that she paid for his vow too. She was probably taken for Temple service. But any way you look at it, human sacrifice was and is illegal. The Cohen HaGodal would have said NO! when he brought her for sacrifice, if indeed he did. Probably the problem was taken up with the Cohen HaGodal at the outset, but we are not told.
And before you say "SEE!", consider that neither are we given an account of her death at either her father's or the priests hands! Surely the only actual Hebrew human sacrifice other than Yeshua would have been important enough to record! And there's the rub- Biblically, there was and is only one acceptable human sacrifice, an' dat sho'nuff ain' ole' japtha's dawta!
They be talkin' 'bout a whole different kinda' kid there. Sorry.
I think you're giving Jeptha short shrift here. Why do you say he could redeem her? And your assumption that he was too proud is unfounded in scripture, based partly on the assumptions you made being correct- which they are not, and pure speculation. He gave credit to God, so he doesn't appear to be a prideful individual. So I wouldn't want to speculate on him being too prideful.
This much is still true; still the moral of the story. If you make a vow, don't leave any of the conditions open to chance! And be careful about making vows in the first place.
Dan C
Matthew 5:33-37 (CJB)
33 “Again, you have heard that our fathers were told, ‘Do not break your oath,’ and ‘Keep your vows to Adonai.’
34 But I tell you not to swear at all — not ‘by heaven,’ because it is God’s throne;
35 not ‘by the earth,’ because it is his footstool; and not ‘by Yerushalayim,’ because it is the city of the Great King.
36 And don’t swear by your head, because you can’t make a single hair white or black.
37 Just let your ‘Yes’ be a simple ‘Yes,’ and your ‘No’ a simple ‘No’; anything more than this has its origin in evil. |
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Post by jimmie on Jul 18, 2014 7:42:44 GMT -8
alon,
In order not to derail the thread on beards could you relocate the relevent post about Jephthah to here.
For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
For he that said, Do not sacrifice your children, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no child sacrifice, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.
My point is both Jephthah and David transgressed the law. Even if your hypothesis is correct, Jephthah transgressed God’s command to be fruitful and multiply by forcing his daughter to become a perpetual virgin. The catholics use the hypothesis that Jephthah’s daughter was a perpetual virgin to support their system of convents for women. Of course they also use the “Acts of Peter and Thechla.” To force a woman to be a perpetual virgin is worse than killing her. Witness Rachael’s words.
Gen 30:1 ...; and said unto Jacob, Give me children, or else I die.
Jephthah killed 42,000 fleeing Ephraimites for opposing him. Would you be the priest to stand up to him? I like to think I would be able to. But no priest was “needed” for the sacrifice of his daughter. He could have taken matters into his own hands Like Saul did. Scripture said he did it not a priest.
Jug. 11:39 And it came to pass at the end of two months, that she returned unto her father, who did with her according to his vow which he had vowed: and she knew no man. And it was a custom in Israel,
Another counter point to her being a perpetual virgin is the fact that others dedicated to service in the tabernacle were not constrained to be so. Witness Samuel who had two sons.
I am not trying to give Jephthah the short shaft. I am trying to see him for what he was. He gathered vain men unto himself. Birds of the feather tend to flock together. Did he perform mighty deeds? Yes in deed! Did he exhibit great knowledge of Scripture? For sure! Did he have failings in regard to the treatment of his daughter? Yep! I don’t try to hide his failings. Nor the fact that David killed someone to hid his sin with the man’s wife. Nor the fact that Samson consorted with hamlets. I acknowledge their sins as well as my own and try to walk closer to God.
Ex 34:6 And the LORD passed by before him, and proclaimed, The LORD, The LORD God, merciful and gracious, longsuffering, and abundant in goodness and truth,
7 Keeping mercy for thousands, forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin, and that will by no means clear the guilty; visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children, and upon the children's children, unto the third and to the fourth generation.
Did Jephthah receive forgiveness for his iniquity, transgression and sin? That is what God does not only for him but us as well. Will God refuse to clear Jephthah’s guilt? God also does that for him as well as us. There we have the two groups. The saved and unsaved.
P.S.
Record of other human sacrifices by Hebrews:
(2 Ki 16:3 KJV) But he walked in the way of the kings of Israel, yea, and made his son to pass through the fire, according to the abominations of the heathen, whom the LORD cast out from before the children of Israel.
(2 Ki 23:10 KJV) And he defiled Topheth, which is in the valley of the children of Hinnom, that no man might make his son or his daughter to pass through the fire to Molech.
(2 Chr 28:3 KJV) Moreover he burnt incense in the valley of the son of Hinnom, and burnt his children in the fire, after the abominations of the heathen whom the LORD had cast out before the children of Israel.
(2 Chr 33:6 KJV) And he caused his children to pass through the fire in the valley of the son of Hinnom: also he observed times, and used enchantments, and used witchcraft, and dealt with a familiar spirit, and with wizards: he wrought much evil in the sight of the LORD, to provoke him to anger.
(Jer 32:35 KJV) And they built the high places of Baal, which are in the valley of the son of Hinnom, to cause their sons and their daughters to pass through the fire unto Molech; which I commanded them not, neither came it into my mind, that they should do this abomination, to cause Judah to sin.
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Post by alon on Jul 22, 2014 9:40:31 GMT -8
For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all. For he that said, Do not sacrifice your children, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no child sacrifice, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law. My point is both Jephthah and David transgressed the law. Even if your hypothesis is correct, Jephthah transgressed God’s command to be fruitful and multiply by forcing his daughter to become a perpetual virgin. The catholics use the hypothesis that Jephthah’s daughter was a perpetual virgin to support their system of convents for women. Of course they also use the “Acts of Peter and Thechla.” To force a woman to be a perpetual virgin is worse than killing her. Witness Rachael’s words. Gen 30:1 ...; and said unto Jacob, Give me children, or else I die. His vow was rash and foolish, and probably said hastily in an attempt to appease God and get His blessing on the coming battle. And it may have been sin no matter what he did when the vow was made and his daughter came out. Anything he did was sin at that point- EXCEPT to go to the Cohen haGadol and get a ruling on what to do. Sacrifices were made at the Temple, and it would have been the Cohen haGadol’s responsibility to rule on this anyhow. If he just took her out and killed her then it was not a sacrifice but murder. The Bible tells us Jephthah kept his vow. but not how. Whether he sacrificed his daughter or whether she was consecrated to God as a perpetual virgin we aren’t told. Ephriam came against Gilead in a civil war. Jeptha tried to negotiate, but they wouldn’t. Why do you judge a Judge of Israel so harshly for winning a war he tried to prevent? Have you ever fought a war, or served in the military? It’s easy to judge from the safety of our homes, especially if you’ve never been there. If I was a priest, I would have honoed Jeptha, not come against him. It says she was. What else can I tell you? No, we should never overlook the faults of men, even Godly men, in the Bible. Neither should we judge them harshly either to build ourselves up or to tear them down. Mat 23:30 “and you say, `Had we lived when our fathers did, we would never have taken part in killing the prophets.' 31 In this you testify against yourselves that you are worthy descendants of those who murdered the prophets. 32 Go ahead then, finish what your fathers started! 33 "You snakes! Sons of snakes! How can you escape being condemned to Gei Hinnom?”
You quote sins, which are called such and worse in the passages given, to support human sacrifice? There was NO place where human sacrifice was commanded or condoned by God except Calvary! |
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Post by jimmie on Jul 22, 2014 14:33:06 GMT -8
[You quote sins, which are called such and worse in the passages given, to support human sacrifice? There was NO place where human sacrifice was commanded or condoned by God except Calvary! I have never quoted anything in support of human sacrifice. Only that it was performed at times by the Hebrews. Jephthah being one recorded incident among others. I think God did command Abraham to sacrifice his son, but only as a means to repudiate the practice not to encourage it. Lev 26 KJV)29 And ye shall eat the flesh of your sons, and the flesh of your daughters shall ye eat. 30 And I will destroy your high places, and cut down your images, and cast your carcases upon the carcases of your idols, and my soul shall abhor you. The killing of one own children is what happens as result of not following God's law. Not unlike abortions today. |
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Post by alon on Jul 22, 2014 15:58:03 GMT -8
[You quote sins, which are called such and worse in the passages given, to support human sacrifice? There was NO place where human sacrifice was commanded or condoned by God except Calvary! I have never quoted anything in support of human sacrifice. Only that it was performed at times by the Hebrews. Jephthah being one recorded incident among others. I think God did command Abraham to sacrifice his son, but only as a means to repudiate the practice not to encourage it. Lev 26 KJV)29 And ye shall eat the flesh of your sons, and the flesh of your daughters shall ye eat. 30 And I will destroy your high places, and cut down your images, and cast your carcases upon the carcases of your idols, and my soul shall abhor you. The killing of one own children is what happens as result of not following God's law. Not unlike abortions today. Then agreed, this is absolutely true. Everywhere it happens it is the result of sin, and is sin! This is why I have such trouble thinking Jepthah killed his daughter. He acted wisely and righteously in all but making this one rash vow. Animals were kept in the homes at that time, and no doubt this is what he had in mind when he made the vow. But his daughter came out, and he had apparently raised a righteous child as well as she was obedient to keep a vow made by her father. He bore the  of having no lineage, as did she, but if he'd committed a human sacrifice he'd have been cut off from his people, if not outright killed himself! I think something this momentous would have gotten more than just a passing mention. Dan C edit: I like the smileys, but their replacing words is a might irritatin'. The word was ( ). edit-edit: sorry I misunderstood there too. Am a bit out of it today, and it's easy to take things wrong on a forum as opposed to in person where you could jump up and scream "THAT'S NOT WHAT I MEANT" at me. (intentional smiley- wait for it ...) ... |
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Post by jimmie on Jul 23, 2014 13:27:17 GMT -8
[ I think something this momentous would have gotten more than just a passing mention. Dan C Quite the contrary: why would anything this blatantly obvious need dwelling on. Lets review Jephthah’s story and compare/contrast it with Abraham’s which are the mirror opposites of each other. 1. Abraham comes from a respectable family while Jephthah is illegitimate. 2. Abraham’s child is named Isaac, Jephthah’s daughter is unnamed; perhaps related to her father’s illegitimate status. 3. God is testing Abraham’s faith, Jephthah’s vow can be seen as originating from his lack of faith, thus he is testing God. 4. Abraham prepares for war as soon as he hears about Lot being taken captive- Jephthah has to be goaded by the elders to take up arms to defend his kin. 5. Abraham refuses the spoils of war- Jephthah’s desires to be set up as ruler as reward for his victory. 6. Abraham’s victory brings peace- Jephthah’s victory brings civil war. 7. Those delivered by Abraham are later destroyed by God- those delivered by Jephthah are later destroyed by Jephthah. 8. Abraham consoles his son ‘God will provide the sheep for the burnt offering’ (Gen. 22:8); Jephthah does not console his daughter but blames her and bemoans his own fate. 9. An Angel appears to save Isaac, girls appear to lament Jephthah’s daughter. 10. Abraham description has all the requisite facts to understand the story and its implications; Jephthah’s story is full of ambiguities. 11. Jephthah daughter was his only child; his vow results in the end of his family line. In the case of Abraham the result is the opposite; his agreement to sacrifice his son Isaac results in countless progeny. 12. Abraham’s child is male- Jephthah’s child is female. 13. Abraham’s child lives- Jepthah’s child dies. 14. Abraham live about 60 years after offering Isaac- Jephthah lives six years after sacrificing his daughter. 15. Abraham is buried in the cave of Machpelah- Jephthah was buried in (one of) the city’s of Gilead indicating his burial site was unknown, or as Jewish tradition would have it, his body was divided and buried in multiple cities. In my studies I have found that both Jewish and Christian commentaries support the literal story that Jephthah killed his daughter until the rise of monasticism in the catholic church of the 1100's. Then the catholics used the story to support the monastic practice of perpetual virginity and the Jews wanted to distance themselves from the old Christian habit of using Jephthah’s daughter as a foreshadow of Christ’s death. |
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Post by alon on Jul 23, 2014 20:50:33 GMT -8
You’re declaring something obviuse doesn’t make your opinion the truth!
If you look hard enough you can find someone to agree with your opinion. And as you point out, both sides of your “studies” have a vested interest in THEIR OPINIONS! Furtheremore, as I said, it is easy to spread allegations when you weren’t there, nor have you apparently ever been in either a combat situation or a real position of leadership, as I asked. So let’s just spread the fert’lizer on th’ hayfield and figure this out, shall we?
OK, but we are going past your selected scriptures and straight to the Biblical story itself.
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Post by alon on Jul 23, 2014 20:51:23 GMT -8
Judges 11
1 Now Yiftach, a brave soldier from Gil'ad, was the son of a prostitute. His father, Gil'ad, 2 had other sons by his wife; and when his wife's sons grew up, they drove Yiftach away and told him, "You will not inherit from our father, because you are another woman's son." 3 Then Yiftach fled from his brothers and lived in the territory of Tov, where he enlisted a gang of rowdies who would go out raiding with him.
True enough. But I’d say that Jeptha came from adversity in order to make something of himself.
Or because it wasn’t important in their eyes- a woman who bore no children was not important to be named in their culture.
And as you note, names were important. Gil’ad means something rolled, such as a stone or dung. Tov, where Jepthah settled, means good.
4 After a while the people of 'Amon made war against Isra'el. 5 When the army of 'Amon attacked Isra'el, the leaders of Gil'ad went to fetch Yiftach from the territory of Tov 6 and said to him, "Come and be our chief, so that we can fight the army of 'Amon." 7 Yiftach answered the leaders of Gil'ad, "Didn't you hate me so much that you forced me out of my father's house? Why are you coming to me now, when you're in trouble?"
And after being driven out, why should he be eager to come to their aid when nothing had even happened to them yet? After his services were rendered, the knife in his back could be a litteral thing!
8 The leaders of Gil'ad replied, "Here is why we've come back to you now: if you lead us in war with the people of 'Amon, you will be head over everyone living in Gil'ad." 9 Yiftach answered them, "If you bring me back home to fight the army of 'Amon, and ADONAI defeats them for me, I will be your head." 10 The leaders of Gil'ad said to Yiftach, "ADONAI is witness that we promise to do what you have said." 11 Then Yiftach went with the leaders of Gil'ad, and the people made him head and chief over them. Yiftach repeated all these conditions at Mitzpah in the presence of ADONAI.
Take note above: you are accusing one of the Judges of Yisra’el here!
12 Yiftach sent messengers to the king of the people of 'Amon to say, "What's your problem with us? Why are you invading our territory?" 13 The king of 'Amon answered the messengers of Yiftach, "Because Isra'el took away my territory when they came up from Egypt. They took everything from the Arnon to the Yabok and the Yarden. Now, restore it peacefully." 14 Yiftach sent messengers again to the king of the people of 'Amon 15 with this response, "Here is what Yiftach has to say: 'Isra'el captured neither the territory of Mo'av nor the territory of the people of 'Amon. 16 But when Isra'el came up from Egypt, walked through the desert to the Red Sea and arrived at Kadesh, 17 then Isra'el sent messengers to the king of Edom, to say, "Please let us pass through your land." But the king of Edom wouldn't let them. He sent a similar message to the king of Mo'av, but neither would he, so Isra'el stayed at Kadesh. 18 Then they walked through the desert, around the territory of Edom and the territory of Mo'av, past the east border of the territory of Mo'av, and pitched camp on the other side of the Arnon; but they did not cross the border into Mo'av, for the Arnon was the border of Mo'av. 19 Isra'el sent messengers to Sichon king of the Emori and king of Heshbon with this message, "Please let us pass through your land to our own place." 20 But Sichon did not trust that Isra'el would only pass through his land, so he gathered all his people together, pitched camp in Yahatz and fought against Isra'el. 21 ADONAI the God of Isra'el handed Sichon and all his people over to Isra'el, and they killed them. Thus Isra'el possessed all the territory of the Emori who lived there. 22 They took possession of all the territory of the Emori from the Arnon to the Yabok and from the desert to the Yarden. 23 So now that ADONAI the God of Isra'el has expelled the Emori before his people Isra'el, do you think that you will expel us? 24 You should just keep the territory your god K'mosh has given you; while we, for our part, will hold onto whatever ADONAI our God has given us of the lands that belonged to others before us. 25 Really, are you better than Balak the son of Tzippor, king of Mo'av? Did he ever pick a quarrel with Isra'el or fight with us? 26 Isra'el lived in Heshbon and its villages, in 'Aro'er and its villages and in all the cities on the banks of the Arnon for three hundred years. Why didn't you take them back during that time? 27 No, I have done you no wrong. But you are doing me wrong to war against me. May ADONAI the Judge be judge today between the people of Isra'el and the people of 'Amon.'" 28 But the king of the people of 'Amon paid no attention to the message Yiftach sent him.
Now, if I were as youre studied source, I’d get snarky and say Jeptha tried to negotiate, while Abraham just attacked. Instead I’ll point out it was two different situations, both of which were properly dealt with!
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Post by alon on Jul 23, 2014 20:52:15 GMT -8
So while we are on this subject, let’s dispense with a few more baseless accusations here:
Different people, different circumstances, different stories- the only thing the same is the mainC commentator and the fact he gets everything WRONG!
29 Then the spirit of ADONAI came upon Yiftach; and he passed through Gil'ad and M'nasheh, on through Mitzpeh of Gil'ad, and from there over to the people of 'Amon. 30 Yiftach made a vow to ADONAI: "If you will hand the people of 'Amon over to me, 31 then whatever comes out the doors of my house to meet me when I return in peace from the people of 'Amon will belong to ADONAI; I will sacrifice it as a burnt offering."
Again the overeducated mainC indoctrination talking there. “Then the spirit of ADONAI came upon Yiftach” doesn’t sound like Jeptha is testing God, rather responding to Him!
32 So Yiftach crossed over to fight the people of 'Amon, and ADONAI handed them over to him. 33 He killed them from 'Aro'er until you reach Minnit, twenty cities, all the way to Avel-K'ramim; it was a massacre. So the people of 'Amon were defeated before the people of Isra'el.
So God was with Jeptha, just as with Abraham.
34 As Yiftach was returning to his house in Mitzpah, his daughter came dancing out to meet him with tambourines. She was his only child; he had no other son or daughter. 35 When he saw her, he tore his clothes and said, "Oh, no, my daughter! You're breaking my heart! Why must you be the cause of such pain to me? I made a vow to ADONAI, and I can't go back on my word."
“I made a vow to ADONAI, and I can't go back on my word." That last sentence shows your commentator wrong again! Jeptha did take responsibility! Furthermore, he DID console her as we read on:
36 She said to him, "Father, you made a vow to ADONAI; so do whatever you said you would do to me; because ADONAI did take vengeance on your enemies the people of 'Amon." 37 Then she said to her father, "Just do this one thing for me - let me be alone for two months. I'll go away into the mountains with my friends and mourn, because I will die without getting married." 38 "You may go," he answered, and he sent her away for two months. She left, she and her friends, and mourned in the mountains that she would die unmarried.
...
39 After two months she returned to her father, and he did with her what he had vowed; she had remained a virgin. So it became a law in Isra'el 40 that the women of Isra'el would go every year for four days to lament the daughter of Yiftach from Gil'ad.
More litteral and accurate translations say:
Judges 11:39 (YLT) 39 and it cometh to pass at the end of two months that she turneth back unto her father, and he doth to her his vow which he hath vowed, and she knew not a man; and it is a statute in Israel:
Shofetim 11:39 (OJB) And it came to pass at the end of two chodashim, that she returned unto her av, who did with her according to his neder which he had vowed; and she knew no man. And it was a chok in Yisroel,
It didn’t "become", but it “is” and/or “was” a statute. This indicates Jepthah dealt with the situation according to Jewish law. He took it to the Cohen haGadol. Makes sense because it NEVER “became” a law to offer human sacrifice in Yisra’el; nor do the Jews mourn her virginity that I am aware of. It must have happened, but it isn't "law".
So again, your Christian is wrong when he says:
And again when he says:
Judges 12
1 The men of Efrayim assembled, crossed into Tzafon and said to Yiftach, "Why didn't you call us to go with you when you went over to fight the people of 'Amon? We're ready to burn down your house with you in it!" 2 Yiftach answered, "When my people and I were in a serious dispute with the people of 'Amon, I called you; and you didn't rescue me from their power. 3 When I saw that you weren't rescuing me, I put my life in my own hands and went over to attack the people of 'Amon; and ADONAI gave them over into my power. So why have you come up today to fight me?" 4 Then Yiftach gathered together all the men of Gil'ad and fought with Efrayim, and the men of Gil'ad defeated Efrayim; because they were saying, "You Gil'ad men who live in Efrayim and M'nasheh have deserted Efrayim!"
Once again, the men of Efrayim came against Jeptha after he’d tried to negotiate! His victory didn't bring about the civil war, but the greed of cowards who'd refused to fight except against what they must have perceived to be a weakened army fresh off the battlefield.
The men of Efrayim were NOT delivered by Jepthah, they fought against him and he killed them. Give the man the Knesset Medal of Honor to the man, I say!
...
I’ll be magnanimouse and plead No Lo Contendre on # 15, as this has went way too long already.
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Post by jimmie on Jul 24, 2014 6:41:51 GMT -8
Eight of the points were taken form Rabbi Moshe Reiss’ paper on Jephthah and can be viewed here: www.moshereiss.org/articles/21_jephthah.htmThe other seven are mine. I think it is time to appeal to Robert’s - err, I mean - Reuel’s Rules of Order and suspend this discussion as we appear to be at an impasse hear. |
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Post by alon on Jul 24, 2014 7:12:50 GMT -8
Jewish commentators can be just as wrong, or right, as any Christian commentator. Dare I state the obviouse- so can you or I. Agree. We've both put our opinion up, and everyone else is able to make up their own minds. Dan C |
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- there are 70 faces to 
of having no lineage, as did she, but if he'd committed a human sacrifice he'd have been cut off from his people, if not outright killed himself! I think something this momentous would have gotten more than just a passing mention.
