Shaving

[Mark]

Is it commanded that men should not shave their beards?

[lawrenceofisrael]

Yes :-)

[dave]

Leviticus 19:27
"You shall not shave around the sides of your head, nor shall you disfigure the edges of your beard."

This is pertaining to the entire people Israel.

Leviticus 21:5
"They shall not make any bald place on their heads, nor shall they shave the edges of their beards nor make any cuttings in their flesh."

This part, Adonai is speaking about Aaron and his sons.

It doesn't say specifically not to, but then again, if you were aloud to shave your beard, would these verses be pertinent?

Here's another question, if Adonai commands us not to shave our beards, then what does one do if his profession requires it? In my case, the army requires that I shave, and my job requires me to shave. What do I do? Will Adonai allow me to shave so that I can serve my country?

Dave

[lawrenceofisrael]

I personally would never except a job that requires me to break god´s word. To you dave. I think you should ask someone responsible in the army about it. Normally ( considering that you are granted religious freedom by the constitution) that shouldn´t be a problem.

May peace and blessings be upon you.

[dave]

Lawrence,

The United States Army does not operate on the same playing field as the rest of the country. The Army is NOT a democracy. I have zero vote. It is a dictatorship. By joining the Army, I understand that I lose some of my constitutionally granted freedoms and rights so that others may enjoy them. For example, I cannot participate in any political rallies of any sort, because in doing so, it may give the appearance of the Army supporting a particular candidate or party and therefore leaning towards a militaristic dictatorship.

I wasn't even saved when I joined the Army, let alone even aware of the implications of being Jewish. With that in mind, I believe that Adonai wants us to honor our commitments. To let our yes be yes and our no be no. So I feel that Adonai wishes me to fulfill my commitment.

As far as the Army is concerned with religious freedom, I can attend whatever service I choose when I am able to. I am allowed to wear a single article of religious significance as a necklace, as long as it's not visible, and I can wear a piece of religious headgear as long as it doesn't interfere with the normal wear of the uniform. So there's no getting around the beard thing in that arena.

I apologize for hijacking this post and taking it a bit off topic, so to get back on it...

The has specific instructions about beard maintenance, but it doesn't actually say that you have to have one. So is it more along the lines of Adonai telling us how to have our beards if we chose to have them?

Now if we are going to go to extra-biblical sources, the Messianic Jewish Rabbinical Council deems it appropriate for certain persons to break Shabbat, i.e. doctors, nurses, police officers, soldiers...
Couldn't the same thing apply to beards? Is it breaking if my not having a beard is in the service of others?

Dave

[Mark]

It's always important to understand that there is a cultural context in - that the words have a reference point that the audience would immediately understand. This is a basic tenant of language that we take for granted with our own vocabulary; but we struggle with it when reaching beyond waht is familiar.

One of the customs of the Caananite baalists was to perform human sacrifice on various levels. One of the practices of devotion was to twist the hairs of one's beard around one's finger, pull it tight from the face and cut the skin, then offer that patch of skin, blood and hair on the sacrificial altar. It is probable that the command in Leviticus 19:27 is referring to this, since it is surrounded in a discussion on pagan idolatry.

Shaving is commanded when a man takes the vow of a Nazarite or has been cleansed of leprosy (Leviticus 14, Numbers 6 respectively). It would seem inconsistent that a command to demonstrate purity in one case would be sin in all others. At least, that's my thinking. However, knowing that the word shave "ga-lakh" and mar "sha-kahth" are different, is a strong indicator that they should not be the same thing.

Both positions are arguable- and have been argued for, oh, about 4000 years. But, my judgment is that shaving is not sin. However, custom and Hebraic culture suggests that one's beard is a sign of maturity- it's length is symbol of time spent in devotion to (my beard is cropped chort).

My own beard is mostly a symbol of bad judgment. My history isn't altogether pure and my jaw line has a collection of scar tissue that is kind of like taking a razor over speed bumps. I can cut myself with an electric shaver (how's that for incompetent).

I'm afraid I would be quite embarrassed to stand from the bema to deliver a message on the woes and vices of shaving.

[ryking]

I was demoted, punished (with extra duty and confinement to quarters), then discharged from the U.S. Army, in a decision to obey after reading Leviticus 19 (specifically, verse 19 about the 50%/50% fabrics the of the uniforms, and verse 27 about shaving).

Though I am oversimplifying, it is true that it is difficult to get an "Exception to Policy". Mine was denied because I did not have a denomination that I could point to, that I was only an individual. The disapproving officer was concerned that it would be a slippery slope of individual "religious rules" that any soldier could make up and expect custom treatment.

One interesting note is that a very low-level authorization is all that is required. A company commander can authorize such an Exception to Policy (at least... until some higher-ranking officer decided to contradict it, which I think would be rare).

In my case, it was YHWH showing me how to exit the Army in His timing, and the slight negative experiences I had were mere persecution for following Him. The rewards of obedience have already come to fruition, in part, and I am in awe of His boundless wisdom.

If obedience brought earthly success, then the world would do it. If obedience brought eternal failure, then the Father would not command it.

Stay true; be encouraged; overcome.

[alon]

Dec 9, 2013 11:08:19 GMT -8 ryking said:

I was demoted, punished (with extra duty and confinement to quarters), then discharged from the U.S. Army, in a decision to obey after reading Leviticus 19 (specifically, verse 19 about the 50%/50% fabrics the of the uniforms, and verse 27 about shaving).

ryking, while I admire your standing by your convictions even to the point it cost you, I have to say that Mark was spot on in his last post. This was prohibited because it was a pagan practice of the time. I looked into this one because I wanted to know how (or even if) I should have my beard trimmed.

Really, the lesson I get here is that if every pagan in the world decided that as part of their particular beliefs they would all have beards; then every MJ in the world would have to agree to be clean shaven so as not to look like the pagans! There is also the strictly forbidden acts of mutilating yourself and offering human parts on pagan altars!

But like I said, I can't fault you on your strength and courage of conviction! Full salute on that count!

Dan C

[Questor]

Aug 6, 2009 13:14:03 GMT -8 dave said:

Lawrence,

The United States Army does not operate on the same playing field as the rest of the country. The Army is NOT a democracy. I have zero vote. It is a dictatorship. By joining the Army, I understand that I lose some of my constitutionally granted freedoms and rights so that others may enjoy them. For example, I cannot participate in any political rallies of any sort, because in doing so, it may give the appearance of the Army supporting a particular candidate or party and therefore leaning towards a militaristic dictatorship.

I wasn't even saved when I joined the Army, let alone even aware of the implications of being Jewish. With that in mind, I believe that Adonai wants us to honor our commitments. To let our yes be yes and our no be no. So I feel that Adonai wishes me to fulfill my commitment.

As far as the Army is concerned with religious freedom, I can attend whatever service I choose when I am able to. I am allowed to wear a single article of religious significance as a necklace, as long as it's not visible, and I can wear a piece of religious headgear as long as it doesn't interfere with the normal wear of the uniform. So there's no getting around the beard thing in that arena.

I apologize for hijacking this post and taking it a bit off topic, so to get back on it...

The has specific instructions about beard maintenance, but it doesn't actually say that you have to have one. So is it more along the lines of Adonai telling us how to have our beards if we chose to have them?

Now if we are going to go to extra-biblical sources, the Messianic Jewish Rabbinical Council deems it appropriate for certain persons to break Shabbat, i.e. doctors, nurses, police officers, soldiers...
Couldn't the same thing apply to beards? Is it breaking if my not having a beard is in the service of others?

Dave

You made a commitment without knowing this law would apply to you. You made another commitment to YHVH later, but you did not know this would cause a problem to your other commitment.

You are most likely breaking by keeping your commitment, but the commandment you are breaking is less important than the commitment you are keeping.

I think that here we are looking at a case of heavy and light, as to which you should do, break your oath...for you gave one, or disobey legitimate authority you have committed to obey in your oath by having a beard.

That one seems easy to me, and you have Grace to cover you as you work through your commitment to the Military.

If you do not wish to rely on the Grace we have through Yeshua's covering of our sins, I would begin to wonder if you are focusing on the wrong thing.

YHVH wants us to obey Him, but He's not standing over us with a curse ready to hit us now. That is because of Yeshua.

If you were breaking the commandment just to break it, you then would be in deep trouble with the Ruach haKodesh, but you are not being rebellious, you are instead, troubled.

This is the whole point of Grace, and particularly since you are just now deepening your walk with YHVH.

Pray about it, and if you are still troubled, and feeling as if you are condemned, ask yourself why you should feel guilty and condemned when Grace is covering you. People often feel that because they are not following the Scriptures in perfection that they should feel guilty.

We will not be perfect in obedience until we are in the Kingdom with incorruptable bodies. YHVH is only requiring us to do our level best to keep all of the , and to ask for help and forgiveness when we fail.

Simply ask for forgiveness of this difficulty you are in, and promise YHVH and yourself, that the day you get out of the military, you won't shave again. Then thank YHVH for sending Yeshua, and thank Yeshua for dying for your sins, past, present, and future.

[joshuamoshe]

I served 7 years in the Navy Seabees. The military does make exceptions for shaving, however they are medical in nature not religious. I believe the exception in HaShem's Law relates to the saving of a life. While employed with any branch of the military a member can be at any time put at risk for exposure to chemical, biological and radiological weapons. This requires constant training which includes the use of a gas mask. The gas masks used in today's military cannot make a positive pressure seal if a man is growing a beard. Thus the reason the military allows a mustache but not a beard.

If one was to grow a beard, thus not be able to train properly with their personal protective (Chemical, Biological, and Radiological) equipment, when it came time to face these threats a member could be very unprepared to deal with the situation properly, especially if he had to take the time to shave as the missiles are inbound. Hope this clears things up a bit.

O and I have stood up for my religious right to grow a beard at my place of employment and have found very positive results. If you are a civilian and do not need to wear PPE which requires a respirator type seal on your face, you actually have a religious right to have a beard, you may need to cut it short so it doesn't get caught in any moving machinery but the employer must reasonably accommodate your religious beliefs.

Shalom, Shalom,

Y'hoshua

[alon]

Jul 16, 2014 21:54:44 GMT -8 joshuamoshe said:

I served 7 years in the Navy Seabees. The military does make exceptions for shaving, however they are medical in nature not religious. I believe the exception in HaShem's Law relates to the saving of a life. While employed with any branch of the military a member can be at any time put at risk for exposure to chemical, biological and radiological weapons. This requires constant training which includes the use of a gas mask. The gas masks used in today's military cannot make a positive pressure seal if a man is growing a beard. Thus the reason the military allows a mustache but not a beard.

If one was to grow a beard, thus not be able to train properly with their personal protective (Chemical, Biological, and Radiological) equipment, when it came time to face these threats a member could be very unprepared to deal with the situation properly, especially if he had to take the time to shave as the missiles are inbound. Hope this clears things up a bit.

O and I have stood up for my religious right to grow a beard at my place of employment and have found very positive results. If you are a civilian and do not need to wear PPE which requires a respirator type seal on your face, you actually have a religious right to have a beard, you may need to cut it short so it doesn't get caught in any moving machinery but the employer must reasonably accommodate your religious beliefs.

Shalom, Shalom,

Y'hoshua

josh m is correct. One trip through the gas chamber should convince him of the error of his ways. The higher mitzvah is to save lives. If he can't wear his mask properly he risks not only his life but others in hi unit.

Num 30:3 "When a woman makes a vow to ADONAI, formally obligating herself, while she is a minor living in her father's house; 4 then, if her father has heard what she vowed or obligated herself to do and holds his peace, then all her vows remain binding - every obligation she has bound herself to will stand. 5 But if on the day her father hears it, he expresses his disapproval, then none of her vows or obligations she has bound herself to will stand; and ADONAI will forgive her, because her father expressed his disapproval.

While still under authority, as a child is at home, the higher mitzvah is to do as instructed by that authority. There is also some protection for us in the law and in higher authority.

30 Yiftach made a vow to ADONAI: "If you will hand the people of 'Amon over to me, 31 then whatever comes out the doors of my house to meet me when I return in peace from the people of 'Amon will belong to ADONAI; I will sacrifice it as a burnt offering." ... 33 So the people of 'Amon were defeated before the people of Isra'el. 34 As Yiftach was returning to his house in Mitzpah, his daughter came dancing out to meet him with tambourines. She was his only child; he had no other son or daughter. 35 When he saw her, he tore his clothes and said, "Oh, no, my daughter! You're breaking my heart! Why must you be the cause of such pain to me? I made a vow to ADONAI, and I can't go back on my word." 36 She said to him, "Father, you made a vow to ADONAI; so do whatever you said you would do to me; because ADONAI did take vengeance on your enemies the people of 'Amon." 37 Then she said to her father, "Just do this one thing for me - let me be alone for two months. I'll go away into the mountains with my friends and mourn, because I will die without getting married." 38 "You may go," he answered, and he sent her away for two months. She left, she and her friends, and mourned in the mountains that she would die unmarried. 39 After two months she returned to her father, and he did with her what he had vowed; she had remained a virgin.

She was probably given over to the priests for a life of temple service, remaining a virgin all her life. The High Priest would not have allowed this sacrifice to happen as the law against human sacrifice was the higher mitzoth.

Mitzvoth are not always carved in stone just because you read it or made the vow yourself. So while in the service saving lives and the commitment to obeying regulations and orders are the higher mitzvoth.

Dan C

[jimmie]

It seems to me that the cutting or shaving of hair and beard is prohibited if doing it for mourning the dead.

Lev 19:27 Ye shall not round the corners of your heads, neither shalt thou mar the corners of thy beard.
28 Ye shall not make any cuttings in your flesh for the dead, nor print any marks upon you: I am the LORD.

Lev 21:1 And the LORD said unto Moses, Speak unto the priests the sons of Aaron, and say unto them, There shall none be defiled for the dead among his people:
2 But for his kin, that is near unto him, that is, for his mother, and for his father, and for his son, and for his daughter, and for his brother,
3 And for his sister a virgin, that is nigh unto him, which hath had no husband; for her may he be defiled.
4 But he shall not defile himself, being a chief man among his people, to profane himself.
5 They shall not make baldness upon their head, neither shall they shave off the corner of their beard, nor make any cuttings in their flesh.

2 Sam 10:4 Wherefore Hanun took David's servants, and shaved off the one half of their beards, and cut off their garments in the middle, even to their buttocks, and sent them away.
5 When they told it unto David, he sent to meet them, because the men were greatly ashamed: and the king said, Tarry at Jericho until your beards be grown, and then return.

How was Hanun convinced that David’s servant were spies? Well if they had full beards and no cutting it would be oblivious to a pagan that they were not honoring the dead. To show the “proper way to mourn for the dead,” they took the two men and shaved half their beards and sent them packing back to David.

[jimmie]

A few times when shaving is required. If at times you are required to shave does it follow that you should have something to shave?

(Lev 14:9 KJV) But it shall be on the seventh day, that he shall shave all his hair off his head and his beard and his , even all his hair he shall shave off: and he shall wash his clothes, also he shall wash his flesh in water, and he shall be clean.

(Num 6:9 KJV) And if any man die very suddenly by him, and he hath defiled the head of his consecration; then he shall shave his head in the day of his cleansing, on the seventh day shall he shave it.

(Num 6:18 KJV) And the Nazarite shall shave the head of his separation at the door of the tabernacle of the congregation, and shall take the hair of the head of his separation, and put it in the fire which is under the sacrifice of the peace offerings.

(Deu 21:12 KJV) Then thou shalt bring her home to thine house; and she shall shave her head, and pare her nails;


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