Musical Intruments

[Deleted]

Yesterday I was at the library and my friend who works at the library posed this question to me. He asked me what I thought of musical instruments.

So I told him that if the musical instruments were used for God's glory and purpose than I have no issues with it. Also if it is used to respect and honor His holiness. If the musical instruments were used for evil than this is a sin. I went into how the so called Christian music sounds so much like the world's music and how we are told in the bible that we are to be separate from the world. To be set apart or to be different. I shared about the verse in Psalms where it says to make a joyful noise unto the Lord.

"Praise Him with the timbrel and dance; Praise Him with stringed instruments and flutes! Praise Him with loud cymbals; Praise Him with clashing cymbals!" Psalms 150:4-5

There are many other places in the OT with regards to using musical instruments in worship to God.

My friend stated that musical instruments were only used in the temple. So I pointed out how we are now the temple of God. Than he goes on to say that in the early church meaning the NT they had done away with the musical instruments and that no where in the NT will you find musical instrument being instructed to be used in the church. He stated that the Roman Catholic church at that time had pushed not to have musical instruments in their worship. There are some today who still do not use musical instruments in their churches. Such as some Reformed churches, Amish and Mennonite groups. There are some Jewish groups that do not use musical instruments either.

So I pointed out to my friend that maybe the reason why they did away with the musical instruments at the beginning of the so called church age is because they did not want to have anything to do with the Jewish lifestyle or their feasts. He stated that this could be a possibility.

I was thinking more about this earlier and I was reminded that after the Israelites had crossed the Red Sea that Miriam, Moses's sister and a few other ladies had praised, danced and was using tambourines. There was no temple than. The temple came after.

"Then Miriam the prophetess, the sister of Aaron, took the timbrel in her hand; and all the women went out after her with timbrels and with dances" Exodus 15:20

So I told my friend this when I went to the library today and he stated it is the fact that no musical instruments is ever being mentioned as being used in worship or anything in the NT. This I am not sure because I have not really noticed it it did or not.

I love musical instruments. Also I believe that if one were to use it for God's glory and purpose in a proper manner than it is okay to use them.

So what is everyone's thoughts on this?

Moriah Ruth

[alon]

Interesting question. He's wrong about their not being mentioned in the "NT" though:

Rev 15:2 I saw what looked like a sea of glass mixed with fire. Those defeating the beast, its image and the number of its name were standing by the sea of glass, holding harps which God had given them.

This applies to heaven however, and I don't recall any other mention of music in the B'rit Chadasha (doesn't mean there isn't- just I don't recall any). But I don't recall any prohibition either, and since we believe in the whole Bible then I'd say we are to worship God with music, including instruments. I like your distinction of not sounding like the world though.

I think I've shared this here before, but I'll say it again. I have never been able to worship in any Christian church. From the Baptists making a dirge out of everything to the Pentecostals making a show out of their "worship" service, it all just leaves me flat. However from the first time I went to Synagogue and they were worshiping with canned music (on the comp), I was immediately and unexpectedly in worship! Chavurat HaMashiach even worships with dance, which is done at the back so is not a "show" like I've seen done on the net. I think that is a wonderful expression of worship for those blessed with grace.

Me, I was raised a Baptist, so I can't sing or dance. But apparently now I can worship! I say worship with both, and like you Ruth I say it should be done to glorify God, not the "Worship Team" or worldly pursuits. [ although R Reuel could stand to jazz up his guitar a bit ... ]

Dan C

edit: they all do a good job, from Rabbi S using the comp to R Reuel playing the guitar; but I can't even play the radio so it's not like I'd know the difference!

[Deleted]

Thank you Alon for your thoughts on this issue.

[jimmie]

Aug 7, 2014 11:01:01 GMT -8 @moriahruth7 said:

he stated it is the fact that no musical instruments is ever being mentioned as being used in worship or anything in the NT. Moriah Ruth

This is a fallacy. You can't prove a prohibition from silence.

Some NT mentions of instruments.

(1 Cor 13:1 KJV) Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.

(1 Cor 14:7 KJV) And even things without life giving sound, whether pipe or harp, except they give a distinction in the sounds, how shall it be known what is piped or harped? 8 For if the trumpet give an uncertain sound, who shall prepare himself to the battle?

[Deleted]

Thank you Jimmie.

I believe what my friend is trying to convey is the fact that in the NT there is no instructions on using musical instrument in worship as a church or congregational setting.

However I do thank Alon and Jimmie for the verses in the NT. I will bring this to my friend's attention and see what he has to say on this.

Moriah Ruth

[jimmie]

A few more thoughts on musical instruments.

(James 5:13 KJV) Is any among you afflicted? let him pray. Is any merry? let him sing psalms.

We are instructed to sing the psalms in the NT. Look at (Psa 33:2 KJV) Praise the LORD with harp: sing unto him with the psaltery and an instrument of ten strings. Should we not sing the psalms the way they instruct us to?

(Rom 15:9 KJV) And that the Gentiles might glorify God for his mercy; as it is written, For this cause I will confess to thee among the Gentiles, and sing unto thy name.

That is written in (2 Sam 22:50 KJV) Therefore I will give thanks unto thee, O LORD, among the heathen, and I will sing praises unto thy name.
(Psa 18:49 KJV) Therefore will I give thanks unto thee, O LORD, among the heathen, and sing praises unto thy name.
Again, if the NT references the OT in instructing us to sing, why not sing how the OT allows?

(1 Cor 14:15 KJV) What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also.

What does sing mean?

A To utter a series of words or sounds in musical tones.
B To produce musical sounds when played. I.e. boy he can make that piano sing.

Sing, in the above NT verses is from 5567. psallo, psal'-lo; prob. strengthened from psao (to rub or touch the surface; comp. G5597); to twitch or twang, i.e. to play on a stringed instrument (celebrate the divine worship with music and accompanying odes):--make melody, sing (psalms).

Sing, in the above OT verses is from 2167. zamar, zaw-mar'; a prim, root [perh. ident. with H2168 through the idea of striking with the fingers]; prop. to touch the strings or parts of a musical instrument, i.e. play upon it; to make music, accompanied by the voice; hence to celebrate in song and music:--give praise, sing forth praises, psalms.

So the English word “sing”, the Greek word “psallo” and the Hebrew word “zamar” have intrinsic to their meaning the use of musical instruments.

(Heb 2:12 KJV) Saying, I will declare thy name unto my brethren, in the midst of the church will I sing praise unto thee.

5214. humneo, hoom-neh'-o; from G5215; to hymn, i.e. sing a religious ode; by impl. to celebrate (God) in song:--sing an hymn (praise unto).
5215. humnos, hoom'-nos; appar. from a simpler (obsol.) form of hudeo (to celebrate; prob. akin to G103; comp. G5567); a "hymn" or religious ode (one of the Psalms):--hymn.

[Deleted]

Jimmie,

I get the singing part. It is the musical instruments that I am talking about. Please re-read my first post. Thanks.

Moriah Ruth

[jimmie]

So the English word “sing”, the Greek word “psallo” and the Hebrew word “zamar” have intrinsic to their meaning the use of musical instruments.

Read more: theloveofgod.proboards.com/thread/3452/musical-intruments#ixzz3B21RNRLF

[Deleted]

Yes, our voices can be musical instruments to God, I agree. However I am talking about musical instruments as in drums, guitars, pianos, harps, cymbals, timbrels. This is what I am talking about. But no worries. I will let it rest.

[jimmie]

The point I am trying to make is that the voice is only part of singing. By definition singing includes musical instruments.

[Deleted]

I understand.