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Post by alon on Apr 13, 2019 9:29:30 GMT -8
... i have a friend who does construction and Saturdays is the best day when he can help otherwise I would need to pay someone to some work on other days and it's difficult with my financial situation. I know we are not supposed to have people work for us but I am wondering if that relates to our regular everyday job/business or if it might be ok for him to do some work on some Saturdays without myself helping? That's a tough one. Strictly speaking, no. It isn't allright. However we live in a primarily Gentile culture, so at times we have to make exceptions. If you can't get him to work on another day, and if you can't have someone else do it due to finances, then you might have to have it done then. That is a call you'll have to make yourself. Just understand that it will disturb your Shabbat. Also there likely will be something you have to do to facilitate or help him. And as you said, we aren't supposed to do it in the first place. I can't tell you to do it or not. All I can do is advise you to take this decission very seriously. Dan C |
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Post by Elizabeth on Apr 13, 2019 10:44:37 GMT -8
This may relate, or not. I'm starting to be more aware of feelings of pressure and how that effects my actions related to G-d. If it feels like you have no other choice, I personally would be even more cautious. It just seems like a place G-d might have something else in mind than what's easy to see.
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Post by mystic on Apr 17, 2019 3:24:46 GMT -8
Thanks guys. the friend said that what I need done, for me personally, he will do on a Sunday.
For the house however, he may do some stuff for my mom. Even though I live in this house, whatever she will have the friend do, that should not put any Sabbath violations on my self should it? I will not be involved with it in any way as he has other help.
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Post by alon on Apr 17, 2019 9:22:08 GMT -8
Thanks guys. the friend said that what I need done, for me personally, he will do on a Sunday. For the house however, he may do some stuff for my mom. Even though I live in this house, whatever she will have the friend do, that should not put any Sabbath violations on my self should it? I will not be involved with it in any way as he has other help. Glad he agreed to do he stuff for you on Sunday. However the thing about working for your mom brings up another issue we often face. When other family members or members of household do or have done things that are for us a violation of  . After all, they have an interest in what happens there also. I find standing my ground helps. When they find I won't go along with most things which are for me a violation, they quit pushing. However at times I must yield to them for one reason or another. So if it is your mom scheduling the work on a house she has a vested interest in, and there was no collusion on your part, then I'd say you are in the clear. I'd still ask forgiveness, just in case. But sometimes there isn't much you can do. Not sure how part of the work on the house is for you and part for her, but I suppose there are a few scenarios I can think of that this might be the case. Dan C |
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Post by mystic on Apr 18, 2019 3:23:08 GMT -8
The friend is like a son to her and since my mom is the owner of this house she asks him to do certain repairs so I let them handle it and if I am needed I help. So there are times I will aak him myself to do certain things and same for her. Since i have started Sabbath I don't ever help him do anything on a Saturday.
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Post by mystic on Apr 20, 2019 4:29:05 GMT -8
Glad he agreed to do he stuff for you on Sunday. However the thing about working for your mom brings up another issue we often face. When other family members or members of household do or have done things that are for us a violation of . After all, they have an interest in what happens there also. I find standing my ground helps. When they find I won't go along with most things which are for me a violation, they quit pushing. However at times I must yield to them for one reason or another. So if it is your mom scheduling the work on a house she has a vested interest in, and there was no collusion on your part, then I'd say you are in the clear. I'd still ask forgiveness, just in case. But sometimes there isn't much you can do. Not sure how part of the work on the house is for you and part for her, but I suppose there are a few scenarios I can think of that this might be the case. Dan C Yes, pretty much the same for me as I constantly have to explain things to people here and stand firm. I agree with what you've previously stated that some things will be inevitable or unavoidable. As one example, this morning I have mike and his mom taking a tv to the Sanitation recycling center since the only day they accept it is on a Saturday, so absolutely no choice that I have to get others to do this for me. Also, Mike's mom asked me if I am not going with Mike to his mew Psychologist's appointment today and she said she was very surprised at this because I have always done this with Mike. Since I had already broken sabbath 2 weeks ago to go interview this Psych, I told her that I will break Sabbath only when it's absolutely necessary and my presence should be required by this Psych, otherwise I will need to hope I can get this Psych to have a phone discussion with me on any other day of the week. I do think my main hurdle will be with the repairs though. Getting the friend to change one window in my room for me will only take one or two hours max so he will make the sacrifice to do it for me on a Sunday but the other major repairs which is urgent will need to be done on a Saturday. I won't be helping him with anything on a Saturday but whether or not it will be myself or mom asking, the work will still need to be done on a Saturday. |
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Post by alon on Apr 20, 2019 8:46:01 GMT -8
Yes, pretty much the same for me as I constantly have to explain things to people here and stand firm. I agree with what you've previously stated that some things will be inevitable or unavoidable. As one example, this morning I have mike and his mom taking a tv to the Sanitation recycling center since the only day they accept it is on a Saturday, so absolutely no choice that I have to get others to do this for me. Also, Mike's mom asked me if I am not going with Mike to his mew Psychologist's appointment today and she said she was very surprised at this because I have always done this with Mike. Since I had already broken sabbath 2 weeks ago to go interview this Psych, I told her that I will break Sabbath only when it's absolutely necessary and my presence should be required by this Psych, otherwise I will need to hope I can get this Psych to have a phone discussion with me on any other day of the week. I do think my main hurdle will be with the repairs though. Getting the friend to change one window in my room for me will only take one or two hours max so he will make the sacrifice to do it for me on a Sunday but the other major repairs which is urgent will need to be done on a Saturday. I won't be helping him with anything on a Saturday but whether or not it will be myself or mom asking, the work will still need to be done on a Saturday. Again I must say that I am not a Rabbi, and so not able to make halachic rulings. So wahatever I tell you is just advice. That said, I think if your going with your son to his psych appointments is or could be at all advantageous to his mental health, even if it is just the show of support, then the higher mitzvah would be to go with him regardless if it is on Shabbat. It still seems unusual that the only time all his appointments can be made are on Shabbat, but if that's how it is then that's what you must deal with. Our par'shot readings are in Leviticus right now, and in earlier chapters we saw there were still sacrifices for unintentional sins. Sin is still sin, even when we are obeying a higher mitzvah. So I'd advise you still ask forgiveness, then rest in His grace that you will be forgiven. This keeps us mindful that there will be an accounting, so we cannot just do as we please and call it the "higher mitzvzh." However we can rest in His grace if we must choose to break one commandment to keep a more important (in that particular situation) commandment. And protection of life and health is considered the higher mitzvah in most cases. Dan C |
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Post by mystic on Apr 20, 2019 11:25:44 GMT -8
A lot of Psychs don;t work in only one location, so at our Med facility, they are there only one or two days per week. For example the Foot Doctor is only there on Thursday mornings for 4 hours. Also, since mike has College during the week and because of his autism "anxiety/depression" limitations we don;t want him to miss classes which will put pressure on him to make up the work. So we have to make appointments accordingly,
Great advice though, thanks.
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Post by mystic on Apr 26, 2019 3:48:58 GMT -8
Guys, I had inquired of SDA's of how they observe Sabbath as Christians. Since I don't follow any religion this is how I have been generally observing Sabbath "as a Gentile"
Friday evening - Light a candle at dusk according to Sabbath times given and give thanks to God for everything i can think of with a very spiritual song playing then pray for my needs and wishes. I then lie down in silence for a while observing the candle lit room. Next I watch something on TV which is biblical related, might be a movie but usually a biblical documentary then sleep time.
Saturday - As I do every morning, some bible readings/studies on my pc while I am drinking my tea then having breakfast. Wash my cup, cereal bowl and spoon.
Lie back down for a while, whenever i get up, do some reading or online bible and health related reading/studies. Turn on either Daystar or Christian TV for while then have lunch, wash plate and fork/spoon and lie down again.
When I get up, watch a bible related movie or documentary and go to church at 5 and back by 6. I then go into my Garage, turn on some mixed spiritual and pop music, have one or two light beers mixed half with Seltzer water and by 8pm to bed. All through the Sabbath, I talk to God whenever i need to even in between when I am listening to music.
I use the stove kettle to boil the water for the tea as I haven't found a suitable option to have hot water ready at 7am on Saturday morning. I do have an electric kettle i can use to boil the water but I don;t see a difference between using the stove and electricity?
i also use the microwave to heat food 2 times on Saturdays. The lunch and dinner is usually either food they buy here or food my mom makes for the family.
I wash only whatever I use for eating [plate/spoon] because this doesn't require any exertion on my part so no "work".
So I am trying to observe as a Gentile keeping the general worshipping and no creative working principles as best as I can. Can you guys advise on anything that i may be doing wrong here please or what I can do improve and how?
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Post by alon on Apr 26, 2019 7:11:58 GMT -8
Exod 35:3 You shall kindle no fire throughout your settlements on the sabbath day.
This is one the rabbonim, both ancient and the more contemporary, say particularly refers to cooking fires. In this case I agree with them. Work is already proscribed on Shabbat, so the most common use for a kindled fire would have been for cooking. Using modern electrical appliances are for some an excuse to get around this, however I'd say they break the spirit of, if not the actual commandment. In the time this was written, the fact is you could not start a fire to cook your meal, which would have been unnecessary work in any case.
I make sure I have plenty of boiled eggs and cold cut meat on hand. Maybe some potato salad or a garden salad already mixed. I'm not that fond of cold chicken (actually it ain't chicken 'till it's Southern fried; the rest is just, well, blech, which you are about to learn where that term probably originates- except chicken an' dumplins of course). But a lot of people are, so you could have that on hand.
Maintaining a fire to keep food warm was not however proscribed. Many Jews have a practice called "making a blech." You turn a burner on low and keep food warm. Never cook anything on it, just keep it warm. And it must be done before sunset Friday. For your tea, get a good thermos and make that just before Shabbat. Washing the dishes you use is ok, but no more. What I do is rinse them and keep them in a sink filled with soapy water, then I wash them after sunset Saturday.
On the other hand, if you are keeping Shabbat "as a Gentile" you wouldn't have to worry so much about any of this. As God commanded however, those would be my recommendations on what you could do.
Dan C
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Post by mystic on Apr 26, 2019 8:39:14 GMT -8
Thanks. The food warming issue I can try to adjust as I go along but the issue with cold food selection is my diet for Arthritis prevention. If it was not for this then I would have no issues at all eating sandwiches during Sabbath so no need to warm anything but being on an Auto-immune diet doesn;t give you much options since no grains/dairy allowed. Making the tea on Friday evening, I am looking for a thermos which would keep it hot for 12 hours so should get that settled should I find one.
On another issue, is there any biblical requirement to attend services "during" the Sabbath? Reason asking is, the church service is on Saturday evening at 5, by that time sorry to say i am spiritually spent so it's very hard to focus in Church.
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Post by alon on Apr 27, 2019 8:56:21 GMT -8
... the issue with cold food selection is my diet for Arthritis prevention. If it was not for this then I would have no issues at all eating sandwiches during Sabbath so no need to warm anything but being on an Auto-immune diet doesn;t give you much options since no grains/dairy allowed. ... The higher mitzvah is your health. Food warming (making a blech) should help. Meantime, while you are learning and even later if you mess up and say, go to the crock-pot and the roast is a chunk of leather and charcoal- if you absolutely have to cook something because of health issues then I'd say you are ok. Still ask forgiveness and help to do better, because technically it is still sin. But it is not transgression, that is willfully sinning unless it becomes an excuse (always a danger). Leviticus 23:3 (KJV) Six days shall work be done: but the seventh day is the sabbath of rest, an holy convocation; ye shall do no work therein: it is the sabbath of the Lord in all your dwellings. A convocation is an assembly which is called together, and a holy convocation is one called together to worship the Lord. However often we must do the best we can. If you can't find a synagogue or church that is suitable on Shabbat, then do the next best thing and try to find one meeting Sunday morning. However as long as you asre attending churches you are going to keep getting confused in your doctrine. Dan C |
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Post by mystic on Apr 28, 2019 4:09:53 GMT -8
I never looked into a "blech", will do so.
Is there any specific purpose of Church on Sunday morning relating to the Sabbath? I used to attend Church at 9am service during the week before starting to observe Sabbath. Far as I understand a requirement of Sabbath is to attend services "on that day", that is what I inquiring about here. If I can go back to attending Church on a week day morning again when I won't have any or much focusing issues then that would best, for me.
As for adopting the church's doctrines, I don't see that will ever happen since I have always naturally been more OT based. Only reason I attend a service in the first place is because it is implied. Whenever the preacher is giving his sermon I naturally usually zone out in any case. Most of the one hour service I spend thanking and praying to God on my own. Whey they stand or kneel to pray I am usually praying my own prayers except for they are praying for people, for that I join in.
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Post by alon on Apr 28, 2019 9:20:12 GMT -8
Is there any specific purpose of Church on Sunday morning relating to the Sabbath? I used to attend Church at 9am service during the week before starting to observe Sabbath. Far as I understand a requirement of Sabbath is to attend services "on that day", that is what I inquiring about here. If I can go back to attending Church on a week day morning again when I won't have any or much focusing issues then that would best, for me. As for adopting the church's doctrines, I don't see that will ever happen since I have always naturally been more OT based. Only reason I attend a service in the first place is because it is implied. Whenever the preacher is giving his sermon I naturally usually zone out in any case. Most of the one hour service I spend thanking and praying to God on my own. Whey they stand or kneel to pray I am usually praying my own prayers except for they are praying for people, for that I join in. Finding a church you can go to on Sunday was given as the very last resort. But like I said, you will be constantly exposed to bad doctrine in even the best of them you can find. And they are not going to like your take on scripture. But if that's all you can do and you just need an assembly to go to, and if you can find one that is not too bad, like one that teaches Hebrew Roots, then do what you must. There has to be something in NYC. Still keep Shabbat though, Fri sundown to Sat sundown. If you can do without the other people there, doing something llike watching the online streaming of the services of the parent synagogue of this forum would be better: www.synagoguechm.com/livestreaming.htmltheloveofgod.proboards.com/thread/3022/live-weekly-shabbat-services-studiesIf that doesn't work for you then PM me. Dan C |
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Post by mystic on Apr 30, 2019 1:48:11 GMT -8
Hmnn, streaming service, nice. I never ever thought of that, will look further into it.
First thing i would clarity on Dan is if we are obligated to attend service "during Sabbath"? If not, then I can attend service to during the week to be physically among other worshippers and I can do the streaming during Sabbath, that would be ideal, let me know please?
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