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Post by mystic on Jan 16, 2019 2:47:22 GMT -8
But here’s the problem: lists tend to contradict themselves. There will always be exceptions, or places where one principle cashes with another. Or what about being marooned and shellfish are the only readily available food to preserve life until rescue comes? The higher mitzvah is thought to be the preservation of life, even though there is no specific commandment saying you may eat shellfish then. So even in working from a list, you must at times choose which is the higher principle and act accordingly. This is the thing, lists are not as simple as just looking for the “thou shalt” and the “though shalt not’s.” And lists are not absolutes. However working from the principles inherent in those “though salt/shalt not’s” as well as other scriptures which may only demonstrate the principles, we have the flexibility to do what is right in changing circumstances of time, place, and conditions. It’s  this isn’t always the case, but for a doctor the choice to abort should be a grueling decision. However if in the end he is relatively sure if he doesn’t abort both mother and child will die, then he should be able to rest in that fact as he shortens a human life to preserve at least one life. And he will be able to stand before God and justify that action. The same with a cop who has to shoot someone to save his own life or that of others; or a soldier who must defend his country. Doesn’t make it easy, and doesn’t mean they won’t all feel the effects of trauma from having to do it. But it does make it right. It’s the higher mitzvah to kill in those circumstances. Principles must guide our actions, not just a list.Dan C Great post Dan and great examples, enough said! |
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Post by mystic on Jan 16, 2019 5:37:43 GMT -8
Need hot food for the entirety of Shabbat? A crock pot full of vegetable beef soup (or anything else you can think of). Prepared on Thursday or early Friday morning. Need a hot drink (like coffee)? A good, big thermos will keep it pretty warm. Just some suggestions - garrett Yes, thanks! Something along those lines is what I am planning. |
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Post by garrett on Jan 18, 2019 16:52:13 GMT -8
Need hot food for the entirety of Shabbat? A crock pot full of vegetable beef soup (or anything else you can think of). Prepared on Thursday or early Friday morning. Need a hot drink (like coffee)? A good, big thermos will keep it pretty warm. Just some suggestions - garrett Yes, thanks! Something along those lines is what I am planning. Seriously, it gets easier with time. Make yourself a checklist of to-do's and put it on the refrigerator. Be mindful of the upcoming Sabbath at the beginning of each week. It's something to look forward to and never to dread. Over time I found myself enjoying the challenge of finding new and unique ways to make Shabbos more sanctified. You can do it!!! Relish the opportunity because it's rare and special. It's the highest of all Holy Days (even if you're not "feeling it"). And take comfort in the fact that people in different pockets of the whole world are doing the same thing. You'll certainly find that this observance re-prioritizes your life. |
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Post by mystic on Jan 19, 2019 5:35:17 GMT -8
Well said and thank you. Yes, this is my 4th Sabbath and I now look forward to it and welcome it, I no longer dread it as was the case the first two times. I had initially thought I didn't need the rest but now the rest is a different kind of rest I am realizing and I needed it! i am trying to follow the list in every single thing I do even though I am not Jewish, just need to make adjustments here and there wherever. Yes, now I don't look at the "dont's" as hindrances but fun challenges to come up with different ways to stay in line so I can use disposable plate/forks for one day. i walk to church which is only 3 blocks from here and I can leave my house keys anywhere in the yard so no carrying issue. However some things might be unavoidable I think such as taking money with me for the Church but as Dan has said "there are good reasons for breaking it", I can;t see that God will drop the hammer on me for supporting his Ministry. Also whenever it snows and it should end before the Sabbath is over I will have no choice but to shovel the snow to avoid any injuries to the tenants. |
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Post by Questor on Feb 11, 2019 21:06:20 GMT -8
Well said and thank you. Yes, this is my 4th Sabbath and I now look forward to it and welcome it, I no longer dread it as was the case the first two times. I had initially thought I didn't need the rest but now the rest is a different kind of rest I am realizing and I needed it! i am trying to follow the list in every single thing I do even though I am not Jewish, just need to make adjustments here and there wherever. Yes, now I don't look at the "dont's" as hindrances but fun challenges to come up with different ways to stay in line so I can use disposable plate/forks for one day. i walk to church which is only 3 blocks from here and I can leave my house keys anywhere in the yard so no carrying issue. However some things might be unavoidable I think such as taking money with me for the Church but as Dan has said "there are good reasons for breaking it", I can;t see that God will drop the hammer on me for supporting his Ministry. Also whenever it snows and it should end before the Sabbath is over I will have no choice but to shovel the snow to avoid any injuries to the tenants.
In a country where everyone is keeping Shabbat, and there is no struggle except with yourself sounds very nice to me...but not something I truly expect to experience before Yeshua comes.
And the commandment reads..."remember the Sabbath, to keep it set-apart". Even your awareness of the day, even when you cannot keep it as you would prefer, is valuable to G-d. |
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Post by mystic on Apr 3, 2019 3:36:11 GMT -8
So guys, spring is here and I now have a situation I would like some advice on please.
Since a few years now I had been planning on visiting a local farm here but now the Sabbath is an issue. I have read that it's ok for Jews to "take a stroll to observe nature" but I am observing Sabbath as a Gentile and more as a Seventh Day Adventist. Since the purpose of the Sabbath is to rest and worship, for me, rest would be visiting the farm, having some alone time in peace and in nature with God, sit under a tree and do some praying and meditation, feed or pet some animals.
For ME, that is rest, not being here at home in this very hectic house with noise and activity all around me. I would need to drive there or use public transportation though. SDA's use transportation to go to church so I am asking if all of this would be ok for me to do?
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Post by alon on Apr 3, 2019 9:15:53 GMT -8
So guys, spring is here and I now have a situation I would like some advice on please. Since a few years now I had been planning on visiting a local farm here but now the Sabbath is an issue. I have read that it's ok for Jews to "take a stroll to observe nature" but I am observing Sabbath as a Gentile and more as a Seventh Day Adventist. Since the purpose of the Sabbath is to rest and worship, for me, rest would be visiting the farm, having some alone time in peace and in nature with God, sit under a tree and do some praying and meditation, feed or pet some animals. For ME, that is rest, not being here at home in this very hectic house with noise and activity all around me. I would need to drive there or use public transportation though. SDA's use transportation to go to church so I am asking if all of this would be ok for me to do? On the issue of going to a farm, which would either be in the country or on Long Island, I take it- there is nothing inherently wrong with that. As you say, some alone time with God might be a blessing. However you mention this is a 7tn Day Adventist tip. If it is an SDA retreat you may be required to worship in ways not pleasing to HaShem. In the times I've worshiped with them many years ago they were very insistent that I join them or perish. You already find it difficult sorting out Messianism from Judaism and other Christian denominations. Placing yourself in isolation with a strong bunch of Adventists bent on converting you could be anything but peaceful and resting. Worse, if you ride the bus with them you'd be dependent on them for transportation back, which would be added leverage they might use against you. These are possibilities you must consider. The proscription against driving on Shabbat is from Rabbinic Judaism. And even most Jews do not follow it strictly. My wife has told me of the practice to drive within a couple of blocks of the synagogue, park there then walk to shul. Driving is a necessity today. I live in a rural area where if we didn't drive no one would be at shul except the Rabbi. We can drive to synagogue and related activities. We also can drive when doing something like checking the herd during calving season. But we cannot just get in and drive wherever we like. One is to worship HaShem, the other example is to ease suffering should a calving cow be in distress. Adventists are very strict about Saturday worship, so my guess is this is some kind of retreat. Regardless, they will have services throughout the day. And my experience with them tells me you would be their special project for the day. My advice is do not go with them. Instead you might arrange a trip on your own. There are places you could go to be alone with God. You can walk in the country anywhere; even, to my surprise on Long Island itself! Or go to one of the parks in the city. As an outsider, my idea of NYC parks is they come with a mugger behind every bush, however I'm guessing I'm wrong about that. Even so, walk in public places. One thing about city folk everywhere is they can be more alone walking in a crowd than I am walking up a country road! Gaze up in the trees, and look all around. You'll discover more wildlife right in the heart of the city than you thought existed anywhere. And if you want to pet something, walk a friends dog for them. These are just considerations. Again, you are the one there, so you must decide. But since you asked my advice, I say do not go with the SDA group. Dan C |
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Post by mystic on Apr 3, 2019 14:24:38 GMT -8
Oh I am not affiliated in any way with the SDA, sorry if what I wrote gave that impression. I only referenced them since they are Gentiles observing Sabbath like myself. Yes, I will be going on my own either in our car or using public transportation.
I think one other issue I will be facing is music. After returning from Church at around 6pm I can relax outside with a beer listening to some more spiritual music but what happens when my son or his mom wish to play their regular pop music, would I need to go inside?
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Post by alon on Apr 3, 2019 22:07:07 GMT -8
... I think one other issue I will be facing is music. After returning from Church at around 6pm I can relax outside with a beer listening to some more spiritual music but what happens when my son or his mom wish to play their regular pop music, would I need to go inside? Depends on how bad their music disturbs your peace. You don't have to leave just because someone is playing pop music. However you may want to if it is promoting ilicit sex or drugs, etc. But there is nothing wrong with listening to non-spiritual music on Shabbat. It is true that the day should be set aside for God as much as possible. But living in the city I wouldn't think you could get away from that kind of music. I really don't know. Dan C |
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Post by mystic on Apr 4, 2019 3:29:35 GMT -8
Depends on how bad their music disturbs your peace. You don't have to leave just because someone is playing pop music. However you may want to if it is promoting ilicit sex or drugs, etc. But there is nothing wrong with listening to non-spiritual music on Shabbat. It is true that the day should be set aside for God as much as possible. But living in the city I wouldn't think you could get away from that kind of music. I really don't know. Dan C It's only on during Sabbath when inside the house that i would need to have my son keep his volume down so I can try to be peaceful but that is in the house, not outside. their music never disturbs me when outside because I control the volume. Last week when I came home from church I had to put on the usual oldies station which plays mainly 70s-90s pop music because the new phone cable I had bought did not work, I asked God to forgive me thinking this would be wrong. You know pop music, most of it is good lyrics, both mike and mom never purposely play music with explicit lyrics. If I myself should hear a tune with questionable lyrics when i am playing radio or from my own collection I simply block out those lyrics. Regarding the playing of non-spiritual music, that would only be played during the last couple hours of Sabbath in any case so not for any extended period of time. |
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Post by mystic on Apr 13, 2019 4:41:16 GMT -8
I just came across a christian article stating this:
Anyone got any idea why Most Christians would think this? i have had this discussion with some Christians who stated that they choose this day due to the resurrection. What I am asking is where in the NT does it show "the lord changed the day"?
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Post by Elizabeth on Apr 13, 2019 5:44:48 GMT -8
It's documented that Catholicism changed the day. Protestants continue the practice through people like Jonathon Edwards a Puritan minister's logic and teachings. He took certain verses out of context, pulled them together according to a theme he wanted to see, and interpreted them for us to mean that the Holy Spirit revealed a change of the Sabbath to Sunday over time within Scripture without the change every actually being stated in scripture. The change isn't and would never be stated in scripture because G-d doesn't change. Therefore, His teachings to us don't change. What He said is what He said and meant to say.
There's is no evidence scripturally for this change because the entire concept for even changing something G-d said is just wrong. There's just man's desire to interpret G-d's word his own way. Therefore, Christianity twisted it while ignoring major admonition not to do so.
G-d's will is perfect. He doesn't change and His will doesn't change, but somehow Christians have generally ignored that while saying they believe that. Those who think about the day of the Sabbath and still say it's on Sunday likely excuse it or justify it because Sunday is when G-d began creation and because Yeshua rose on a Sunday. Yeshua rose on First Fruits which happened to be a Sunday that year, but they observe every Sunday based on this while ignoring the Hebrew calendar underlying. Somehow in all this they can claim to observe the Sabbath while effectively trying to do away with it and not observe it.
Underneath that, the simple truth is they are saying that they are better than G-d. They live like what G-d Himself gave us to do was imperfect and needs their help and further understanding. It's blatant pride against G-d, but I don't think most Christisns even think about it.
Those who do think about the Sabbath and actually look into the truth, yet then continue in saying its Sunday are rebellious and prideful against G-d. It's fine to worship G-d on Sunday as we should constantly on all days of the week, but it's not fine to try and do away with His word in doing so. Don't call it the Sabbath or the L-rd's Day as it it were the day He sanctified as such because it's a blatant lie. G-d never replaced His Day with Christianity's. It's anti-Semitic at its core I truly believe.
The simply stop listening to this man, and John Edwards for that matter, is that if anyone or anything directs you away from G-d's commands, he is a false prophet or dreamer.
Deuteronomy 13:1-4
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Post by alon on Apr 13, 2019 6:18:21 GMT -8
I just came across a christian article stating this: Anyone got any idea why Most Christians would think this? i have had this discussion with some Christians who stated that they choose this day due to the resurrection. What I am asking is where in the NT does it show "the lord changed the day"? Nowhere does it say that, nor does it even hint at it. However this is avery good example of the power of brainwashing on peopleThe church changed the day of worship, and powerless men went along with it, ignorant men believed them, and finally it became the norm. It's the old argument of the termially uninformed, "Well, everybody knows that!" Having believed and internalized this bit of "common knowledge," they see evidence of this lie everywhere: *Christ rejected the Jews and their ways, so everything is changed *Christ rose on Sunday, so of course we worship Him on Easter Sunday ... Sunday must therefore be when we now worship Him every week *And they see it in Bible passages, despite the evidence of their being wrong right in the passage: Acts 20:7-11 (ESV) On the first day of the week, when we were gathered together to break bread, Paul talked with them, intending to depart on the next day, and he prolonged his speech until midnight. There were many lamps in the upper room where we were gathered. And a young man named Eutychus, sitting at the window, sank into a deep sleep as Paul talked still longer. And being overcome by sleep, he fell down from the third story and was taken up dead. But Paul went down and bent over him, and taking him in his arms, said, “Do not be alarmed, for his life is in him.” And when Paul had gone up and had broken bread and eaten, he conversed with them a long while, until daybreak, and so departed.They say "See, Paul was preaching on Sunday- it says 'the first day of the week.'" This is the Jewish practice (which most Christians are wholly unconcerned with knowing) of 'havdalah.' Remember, the Jewish day goes from sundown to sundown (another thing they are unconcerned with knowing). It is common for Jews to get together after Shabbat (after sundown Saturday) and eat a warm meal (break bread) and to keep talking about  after sunset, the beginning of the first day of the week. It says too Paul intended to leave on the next day. The term used there is epaurion ἐπαύριον, which carries a strong implication of 'at next daylight.' And vs 11 even says "until daybreak, and so (he) departed." That would be on Sunday. A Jew would not leave on a major journey on the day of worship. Another thing not done in synagogue is sitting in the window. This is a picture of a relaxed gathering, not a synagogue or even a church service. So the evidence is there for anyone to look at. This was not a "Sunday service," but an informal gathering. And looking deeper Jewish custom would confirm this. But that is how most Christians see scripture is through the myopic, unquestioning lens of what has been passed down from the church fathers as dogma. Dan C |
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Post by Elizabeth on Apr 13, 2019 7:51:46 GMT -8
Another one I've heard uses Hebrews 3 and 4 to justify replacing G-d's day and commandment regarding it by saying that because Yeshua is the source of our rest, somehow His rest replaces the day G-d sanctified. This is such dusturbing logic because it's basically accusing Yeshua Himself of going against . Therefore, we can be confident they are wrong and stop listening right there. Look into G-d's word for ourselves to counter it and be strong in our convictions. Again, as Alon pointed out in his post, a basic reading of the text reveals it's another situation of disregard for the wholeness of scripture and the perfect wisdom of G-d, as it's a perversion of scripture they use to justify going against G-d's word. The "rest" discussed in Hebrews 3 was entering the land. This is a physical depiction of spiritual salvation. In other words it's a glimpse based on a physical image of our ultimate physical and spiritual destination- the eternal Kindgom. It's not talking about the day of sabbath on earth but the eternal sabbath of Yeshua's Kingdom. Yeshua Himself said that not one iota of the will be done away with until the Kindgom comes. (Matthew 5:18) So until Heaven and earth pass away, at which time we embark on an eternal Shabbat, the day G-d Himself defines for us to observe in hope and preparation for it is the seventh day of the week - Saturday. (Genesus 2:2-3) This assumption and assertion I find particularly disgusting as they are saying Yeshua was not -observant and taught us and gave us reason not to be. They are doing the work of the devil in this as this would make Yeshua a false prophet or dreamer. (Deut 13:1-4) Therefore, they assist hasatan in erasing any reason for Jewish people to more seriously consider Yeshua as Messiah. Also, we are told those who teach others to break G-d's commandments are least in the Kingdom of Heaven. (Matthew 5:19) Yeshua did not teach us any reason to not keep the Sabbath as G-d defines because that would be breaking a commandment and making Him least in His own Kingfom. It's perverted to the point of absurdity. Christians have taken it upon themselves to somehow do better than G-d by not only twisting His Word to follow their traditions, but using Yeshua as justification to do so. What they are saying about Him and doing to Him according to scripture is completely warped. It's insulting to Him, undermines His will and purpose, and harmful to the testimony He died for us to have. Therefore, it's not of G-d. |
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Post by mystic on Apr 13, 2019 9:17:19 GMT -8
Ok got it, thanks for confirming.
i think I had raised this issue before but cannot find it and I don;t think I had gotten an answer for it so let me ask again please.
i have a friend who does construction and Saturdays is the best day when he can help otherwise I would need to pay someone to some work on other days and it's difficult with my financial situation. I know we are not supposed to have people work for us but I am wondering if that relates to our regular everyday job/business or if it might be ok for him to do some work on some Saturdays without myself helping?
p.s. I am not referring to remodelling rather important repairs
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this isn’t always the case, but for a doctor the choice to abort should be a grueling decision. However if in the end he is relatively sure if he doesn’t abort both mother and child will die, then he should be able to rest in that fact as he shortens a human life to preserve at least one life. And he will be able to stand before God and justify that action. The same with a cop who has to shoot someone to save his own life or that of others; or a soldier who must defend his country. Doesn’t make it easy, and doesn’t mean they won’t all feel the effects of trauma from having to do it. But it does make it right. It’s the higher mitzvah to kill in those circumstances. Principles must guide our actions, not just a list.
- there are 70 faces to 
