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Post by alon on Apr 30, 2019 6:07:18 GMT -8
Hmnn, streaming service, nice. I never ever thought of that, will look further into it. First thing i would clarity on Dan is if we are obligated to attend service "during Sabbath"? If not, then I can attend service to during the week to be physically among other worshippers and I can do the streaming during Sabbath, that would be ideal, let me know please? If you had a GOOD Messianic synagogue there close by I'd say you should go. But as you have not found that, and you'd just be exchanging one Christian denomination for another, I'd say you are not required to attend either. So if you choose to go to the one on Sunday, it's no more right or wrong than going on Saturday. I'm being a bit evasive because I don't want to outright tell you to go to any one church or the other. That is your decision. But doing the streaming service on Shabbat I will say is a good thing. Going to church ... pick a time that suits you and go then. Dan C |
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Post by mystic on May 1, 2019 6:22:30 GMT -8
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Post by Elizabeth on May 1, 2019 6:32:55 GMT -8
Click on the meetings tab and there's a link to live streaming there that says "click here" and it begins 1:00 Eastern. The literature you accessed is the order for the service.
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Post by mystic on May 1, 2019 10:08:57 GMT -8
Great thx, that's a good time for me too.
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Post by mystic on May 4, 2019 6:30:25 GMT -8
Guys I have searched and searched the net for a thermos, kettle, water boiler, you name it to keep one cup of water hot for 12 hours so I can make the water hot just before Sabbath starts and be able to use it next morning. I simply cannot find any good option. One Jewish lady had told me a while back that I can get away with making the water hot in an electric kettle then pouring it into a regular kettle then pouring into a tea cup, anyone ever heard of this? Not sure I am understanding how that will not count as cooking?
Regarding a blech, no that will not work for my situation since my mom uses the stove to cook and also because the food needs to be reheated from the fridge. I guess only option will be cold sandwiches or food the others buy here sometimes on Saturdays.
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Post by alon on May 4, 2019 9:18:44 GMT -8
Guys I have searched and searched the net for a thermos, kettle, water boiler, you name it to keep one cup of water hot for 12 hours so I can make the water hot just before Sabbath starts and be able to use it next morning. I simply cannot find any good option. One Jewish lady had told me a while back that I can get away with making the water hot in an electric kettle then pouring it into a regular kettle then pouring into a tea cup, anyone ever heard of this? Not sure I am understanding how that will not count as cooking? Regarding a blech, no that will not work for my situation since my mom uses the stove to cook and also because the food needs to be reheated from the fridge. I guess only option will be cold sandwiches or food the others buy here sometimes on Saturdays. A good Thermos bottle should keep liquid hot for 8 hrs. But if you want it piping hot you may not get that. I find most of those solutions more trouble than they are worth (to me, at least). I just drink water, milk or juice and eat cold food such as boiled eggs, sandwiches or cold chicken, potato salad, green salads, etc. But some people like hot foods and it is worth it to them to go to great lengths to have it. I'd disagree with the woman who says boil it, pour it in another container, then in your cup. That is an idiotic excuse to get around the commandment and have it her way. Is God so stupid He can't figure out what she is doing? Dan C |
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Post by mystic on May 4, 2019 9:58:23 GMT -8
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Post by alon on May 4, 2019 10:14:34 GMT -8
Also guys, I checked out the live session and site. The audio cut off after a while. Questions please. What's the purpose of the live streaming, is it meant as a substitute for anyone who might not be able to physically attend a service? Not sure how it might be of benefit if the online viewer cannot take part in any way? Also, I came across this: www.centralsynagogue.org/worship/sermons/detail/crowns-of- -re-forming-judaism-rosh-hashanah-5776 What's the difference between that and MJ please? Your link wouldn't open. However Reform Judaism is a contemporary Jewish sect. From your quote, it sounds like that one synagogue has went "inclusive," allowing any faith to fellowship with them. If that's the case, they have no real doctrine nor core beliefs, and that would set them completely apart from MJ. Yes, the purpose of the live podcast is so that tose without access to a synagogue can still see a service on Shabbat. It's no substitute for a good local assembly, which is why I've encouraged you to find something if at all possible. But you do get some teaching, and it's better than attending a church where you will be exposed to a lot of bad doctrine. My synagogue does a live podcast as well, and I have that problem all the time with audio cutting out. Not sure why. Could be anything, including your provider will only accommodate so much streaming video. Dan C |
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Post by mystic on May 4, 2019 10:26:02 GMT -8
www.centralsynagogue.org/worship/sermons/detail/crowns-of--re-forming-judaism-rosh-hashanah-5776 The audio didn't cut off for long, I am still looking at it. Actually it seems more up my alley, the music sounds more like classic rock which is what I listen to. The atmosphere seems more relaxed than in a church. I especially like that people are not formally dressed since I am jeans and t-shirt guy.
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Post by alon on May 4, 2019 13:07:55 GMT -8
www.centralsynagogue.org/worship/sermons/detail/crowns-of--re-forming-judaism-rosh-hashanah-5776 The audio didn't cut off for long, I am still looking at it. Actually it seems more up my alley, the music sounds more like classic rock which is what I listen to. The atmosphere seems more relaxed than in a church. I especially like that people are not formally dressed since I am jeans and t-shirt guy. OK, the link worked. I think what she meant was there are converts to Reform Judaism from across the religious spectrum, from Orthodox to Christian to those with no religion before RJ. Reform Judaism is an extremely liberal sect of contemporary Judaism. From female rabbis to eating non-kosher meats they reinterpret as they want. They are nothing at all like MJ. We interpret and the entire Bible as it is written and intended, not as we want. They hold Talmud to be equal to , so any present revelations can be justified there, not in . To them, changes. We hold it to be immutable, the unchanging instructions laid down by God. Then there is the question of Yeshua. We believe, they do not. They believe in a Messianic Age, but not in an individual Messiah. Salvation is to them living a good life, which God will reward. We of course believe salvation is by grace through faith. And yes, after that the good we do will be rewarded. But if we do not repent our sins and trust in Yeshua, our reward is not a good one, regardless what good we did in life. Dan C |
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Post by rakovsky on May 9, 2019 9:16:59 GMT -8
Reform Judaism is an extremely liberal sect of contemporary Judaism. From female rabbis to eating non-kosher meats they reinterpret as they want. They are nothing at all like MJ. We interpret and the entire Bible as it is written and intended, not as we want. They hold Talmud to be equal to , so any present revelations can be justified there, not in . Perhaps the formation of Reform Judaism might have been indirectly influenced by the rise of Protestantism? In Russia, the Jewish population generally adheres to Orthodox Judaism, even though they are also rarely strict in their observance of it. I think that in the modern Israeli State, the community is also generally an adherent of Orthodox Judaism, even if perhaps half of them would identify as secular or liberal in their observance. It seems to me that Reform Judaism is more of an institutional phenomenon of the last several centuries in Western Europe, where religious institutions underwent major reforms and changes (influences from The Age of Reason, principles of Separation of Church and State, Protestantism, etc.)
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Post by Elizabeth on May 9, 2019 18:07:54 GMT -8
Reform Judaism is an extremely liberal sect of contemporary Judaism. From female rabbis to eating non-kosher meats they reinterpret as they want. They are nothing at all like MJ. We interpret and the entire Bible as it is written and intended, not as we want. They hold Talmud to be equal to , so any present revelations can be justified there, not in . Perhaps the formation of Reform Judaism might have been indirectly influenced by the rise of Protestantism? In Russia, the Jewish population generally adheres to Orthodox Judaism, even though they are also rarely strict in their observance of it. I think that in the modern Israeli State, the community is also generally an adherent of Orthodox Judaism, even if perhaps half of them would identify as secular or liberal in their observance. It seems to me that Reform Judaism is more of an institutional phenomenon of the last several centuries in Western Europe, where religious institutions underwent major reforms and changes (influences from The Age of Reason, principles of Separation of Church and State, Protestantism, etc.)
That's interesting. I'm going to look into it a bit because I don't know when Reform Judaism originated but am now interested. I'm thinking maybe it grew out of the "Age of Enlightenment" based on your observation about it seeming more western. It seems kind of opposite to the "sola scriptura" idea of Protestantism in its approach to scripture so I don't think it was influenced by Protestantism, unless it was just the act of reforming in and of itself. It does seem so radically different from Orthodox Judaism that we should know more about how it came to be. |
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Post by rakovsky on May 9, 2019 21:06:25 GMT -8
Perhaps the formation of Reform Judaism might have been indirectly influenced by the rise of Protestantism? In Russia, the Jewish population generally adheres to Orthodox Judaism, even though they are also rarely strict in their observance of it. I think that in the modern Israeli State, the community is also generally an adherent of Orthodox Judaism, even if perhaps half of them would identify as secular or liberal in their observance. It seems to me that Reform Judaism is more of an institutional phenomenon of the last several centuries in Western Europe, where religious institutions underwent major reforms and changes (influences from The Age of Reason, principles of Separation of Church and State, Protestantism, etc.)
That's interesting. I'm going to look into it a bit because I don't know when Reform Judaism originated but am now interested. I'm thinking maybe it grew out of the "Age of Enlightenment" based on your observation about it seeming more western. It seems kind of opposite to the "sola scriptura" idea of Protestantism in its approach to scripture so I don't think it was influenced by Protestantism, unless it was just the act of reforming in and of itself. It does seem so radically different from Orthodox Judaism that we should know more about how it came to be. Let me say how I see Reform Judaism as similar to Protestantism. In Western Europe, the Catholic Church had an idea of the magisterium, whereby if all the bishops all agreed on something, then it was infallible. Likewise, the Pope's authority, as well as his bishops, was very centralized and dictatorial in church matters and theology. The Protestant movement was anti-authoritarian and characterized the bishops' teachings and many bishops' councils as the "teachings of men". Luther and many Protestants didn't really totally reject all authority of holy tradition, but they did reduce its importance. The Protestants also had a much more liberal approve to many Church customs like fasting. They also had alot of skepticism about previous beliefs. Similarly, Reform Judaism seems to me to have a liberal and more skeptical attitude to religious traditions and the rabbis' authority than Orthodox Judaism does. For Orthodox Judaism, the Oral is part of and shares its authority.
In Eastern Europe and Greece, there was the Muslim conquest and authority was spread among several church leaders instead of a single Pope. So the church authorities did not gain the same level of intense centralized authority and powers that the Roman Catholic Church developed. Some of the problems and inner conflicts that the Western Church faced in terms of theology and church powers did not happen in the Eastern Church, and so Protestantism did not really catch on in the Orthodox lands. Although of course you can find instances of Protestants in Eastern Europe, Protestantism tended to be a large scale phenomenon of Catholics dissenting from the Catholic Church as an institution. By comparison, there certainly were Jews in Eastern Europe (and Eastern European immigrants to the S.O.I.) who had dissenting attitudes toward religion, but they didn't form their own separate sect (eg. Protestant Judaism), but tended to just be lax in their observance.
I don't think that I can say that either Catholicism or Orthodox Christianity are exactly analogous to Orthodox Judaism. And you made a good point that Reform Judaism isn't "sola scriptura". One Jewish friend told me that he thought that Orthodox Christianity was a lot like Orthodox Judaism in how much it can emphasize tradition and be conservative. For Orthodox Christianity, it's very important to go back to the beliefs of the early Church, whereas there are many liberal theologians in Catholicism and Protestantism who update their beliefs. That is, there seem to be more liberal theologians and trends in Catholic and Protestant circles.
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Post by Elizabeth on May 10, 2019 18:23:49 GMT -8
I think the odd thing in my mind about Protestantism as you described is that it sees itself as more traditional on some level because they do focus more solely on the Bible. Though, obviously, we think they aren't treating it very genuinely or as completely as we try to.
I see your point, though. Perhaps an attempt at modernizing for increased membership is behind the similarities you see. Based on what little I read on the origin of Reform Judaism, it came out of Germany in the 1800's in response to dwindling membership as Jewish people were becoming more secular or converting to Christianity.
I think Protestantism has done the same thing by trying to reach more through modernizing and appealing to a broader audience, but maybe their attempt was more about evangelizing non-Christians. I'm not sure, but I think I understand your perspective better anyway.
There is a strange dynamic happening in Protestantism now that I think about it, and I wonder if it has to do with people using the Bible to justify a misguided concept of love and grace to appeal to a broader audience. Because they can point at the Bible to justify their view, they think they're somehow still supported in tradition. There is a trend to accommodate the sentiments held in modern society by misapplying or oversimplifying scripture, so I think there's some confusion about how far away from scripture they really are sometimes.
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Post by mystic on May 11, 2019 8:03:10 GMT -8
So where does MJ fit into the mix, more with Conservative, in the middle between Orthodox and Reform?
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- there are 70 faces to 
