The Essence Of Mashiach...

[R' Y'hoshua Moshe]

Messimom,

Well put.

Rayvanderburg, I think you are on the right track, but I will let Netzar Y'hudi respond to your statement first.

Shalom chaver,

Reuel

[Pioneer]

rayvanderburg said:

To Netzar Y'hudi,
If Yeshua is the living, breathing Thora that means the light is in him (John1:4-5). Or is it one and the same, the word(Thora) and the light? Maybe the light was made in Thora in Genesis1:3-4. So Thora, the word, Yeshua was already but the light was made in Him in Genesis1:3-4.
In the word there was life and that life is the light of humans. Does this mean that that light in Genesis1:3-4 is life?
And what is Thora exactly, the old testament and the new testament or only the old testament? I think both.
I find it very difficult but I wanne trust the word and am on my way to understand.

The word is To-rah or Tor-ah depending on whether you are speaking in Sephardic or Askinazi dialect.
is the "Mind of God", the "Instructions", "the Word of God" and/or Yeshua the son of God. Yep, the Light is in him/.
When you say you are saying in effect the Word of God, The mind of God, the Son of God. The two are inseparable.
Messiah, Yah's Salvation/savior, the word made flesh and the "Lamb of God" is the SENT One of the NT.

[Chizuk Emunah]

rayvanderburg said:

To Netzar Y'hudi,
If Yeshua is the living, breathing that means the light is in him (John1:4-5). Or is it one and the same, the word() and the light?

Yes to all the above. The Word (), the Light () and Moshiach (Word made flesh), are all one and the same. They are inseparable from each other.

rayvanderburg said:

Maybe the light was made in in Genesis1:3-4. So , the word, Yeshua was already but the light was made in Him in Genesis1:3-4.
In the word there was life and that life is the light of humans. Does this mean that that light in Genesis1:3-4 is life?

I believe there are two ways to interpret that passage, the pashat (literal meaning) and the sod (hidden meaning). The literal meaning is that HaShem created light and separated it from the darkness, therefore creating night and day. The hidden meaning (hang on, this gets deep) is that at this moment Moshiach was emanated from the mind of Ein Sof, and since light and darkness (good and evil) cannot exist together, they were separated.

rayvanderburg said:

And what is exactly, the old testament and the new testament or only the old testament? I think both.
I find it very difficult but I wanne trust the word and am on my way to understand.

The written is the 5 books of Moshe (Moses). Genesis through Deuteronomy.

It is good that you are searching and learning. I believe that one should always be in a continual state of learning.

[Rayvanderburg]

But if is only the 5 books of Moshe and Yeshua is the living, breathing , then what is the rest of the Bible. Doesn't that belong to Yeshua to?
And who is Ein Sof?
Thanks for the info!

[Chizuk Emunah]

rayvanderburg said:

But if is only the 5 books of Moshe and Yeshua is the living, breathing , then what is the rest of the Bible. Doesn't that belong to Yeshua to?
And who is Ein Sof?
Thanks for the info!

No problem.

The is the foundation upon which all other Scripture rests. Think of it like a house. Without a foundation, the entire structure would collapse.

Ein Sof is a term that is used to describe the Most High. It literally means "without borders", or "without end."

[Pioneer]

rayvanderburg said:

But if is only the 5 books of Moshe and Yeshua is the living, breathing , then what is the rest of the Bible. Doesn't that belong to Yeshua to?
And who is Ein Sof?
Thanks for the info!

Shalom Ray,
It seems to me you have a western concept of Yeshua.
Yeshua is the "Sent One", that being the case someone sent him! Who sent him Adonai/God/Father.
Check out a paper by Dr. Roy Blizzard Jr. PHD "Who is Jesus" I don't have an address, just type in those words in your search engine and you should be able to find it.
The , the Writings and the Prophets is called the TaNaK, the Hebrew bible, which is almost the same as your Old Testament, just a little difference.

Ein Sof has been explained to you, so I will close.
Shalom------

[Mishkan]

rayvanderburg said:

But if is only the 5 books of Moshe and Yeshua is the living, breathing , then what is the rest of the Bible. Doesn't that belong to Yeshua to?
And who is Ein Sof?
Thanks for the info!

Ray,

I'd like to add to the other responses to your questions.

There are two other approaches to your question that I would like to suggest:

1) The word "" is used in several ways. Yes, it primarily means the five books of Moses. But, in a less literal sense, it is also applied to the entirety of the Biblical writings. More, it can also be applied to the specific teachings of a particular teacher of the . Since every teacher brings his own unique emphases, there is a sense in which we can speak of, "the of X", where "X" is the name of the teacher. This is the way I tend to think of Yeshua's teachings--this is the of Yeshua.

2) The role of the prophets was primarily to exhort Israel to return to God when they fell away. If you read the prophets straight through, you will almost become bored with the repetition--cease doing evil, do what is good, keep the Sabbath, and care for the widow and the orphan. That is the repeated theme of all the prophets, in a nutshell. Hence, the Jewish teachers tend to see the message of the prophets as merely supplementary to the . Yes, Yeshua read from the prophets, studied the prophets, and did many things spoken of by the prophets. But when it comes to teaching how to live a blessed life according to the ways of Hashem, the is foundational and primary.

Now, as for your next question, a short answer has been provided. But I think there is room for a great deal more clarification.

"Ein Sof" is a kabbalistic term used to describe God. It attempts to communicate the idea of both "everything" and "nothingness". It would take weeks to communicate the fulness of the meaning of this term. But the general idea is that God is "all in all" and also that, where the fulness of God is, there is no room for what we call "the material universe". This one term opens the door to a huge body of speculation regarding the immanent and transcendent natures of the Almighty.

I hope this helps some.

Shabbat Shalom,

Mishkan David

[Rayvanderburg]

Oke,
So when there is a of Yeshua it is the of the . Yeshua is the living breathing and he completed the . himself! So if the living breathing fills in his teachings why would he do that. To let it be like him?
To live a blessed life according to the ways of Hashem, the whole Bible is needed. The is not enough. Yeshua's teachings are very important and belong together with as one.
And yes I have a western concept of Yeshua because i life in Holland. That doesn't meen I agree with everything they think of Yeshua's here. For example we should keep Sabbat on saturday like the Jews do and Yeshua "did". But thats an other discussion. What I meen is that it isn't wrong to have a western concept of Yeshua as long as you try to find the truth in the Book, and New Testament.
Vrede!

[Pioneer]

rayvanderburg said:

Oke,
So when there is a of Yeshua it is the of the . Yeshua is the living breathing and he completed the . himself! So if the living breathing fills in his teachings why would he do that. To let it be like him?
To live a blessed life according to the ways of Hashem, the whole Bible is needed. The is not enough. Yeshua's teachings are very important and belong together with as one.
And yes I have a western concept of Yeshua because i life in Holland. That doesn't meen I agree with everything they think of Yeshua's here. For example we should keep Sabbat on saturday like the Jews do and Yeshua "did". But thats an other discussion. What I meen is that it isn't wrong to have a western concept of Yeshua as long as you try to find the truth in the Book, and New Testament.
Vrede!

Yes, you are fine having the western concept, but I shall compare the Eastern with the Western, When you look at something through a tube or pipe, you can see clearly what you are looking directly at, but what surrounds it are blocked from view.
It is there, but you are unaware of it bing there because you are focusing on Yeshua. This is the western view.
Take away the tube, that which is in the way and you will see the big picture. The main charactor is unchanged but you see what, who, where and when all of this is happening.

Also when you read any translation, even the best, the translator must pick one word to convey the thought, even though the Hebrew (Characters) word may contain many different meanings.(in context)

Look up the word and in a concordance to see how many scriptures may be changed from their Hebrew picture when the wrong word is used by a translator.

Vav = and, but, therefore, in order to, so, likewise, then, nevertheless, yea, yet, moreover, now, then and the list goes on.

Take a look at the gospels, especially Mark. The Hebrew/Aramaic charactor VAV begining a myriad of statements and sentances.
Could In order to, change a statement? Yes, we need the whole picture to make the right choice between but, and, in order to, likewise, therefore and all the others.

[Mishkan]

rayvanderburg said:

So when there is a of Yeshua it is the of the .

You're being too literal. This is not a mathematical excercise.

Yes, Yeshua "is "... in a sense. He embodies all that the teaches. He represents the essence of the lived out in a human life.

Yes, Yeshua also teaches the according to its best and highest intentions. In this way, he communicates a "new "... the of Messiah.

rayvanderburg said:

Yeshua is the living breathing and he completed the . himself! So if the living breathing fills in his teachings why would he do that. To let it be like him?

I'm not sure I understand your question. Does my previous paragraph supply sufficient answer?

rayvanderburg said:

To live a blessed life according to the ways of Hashem, the whole Bible is needed. The is not enough. Yeshua's teachings are very important and belong together with as one.

I don't know that Yeshua provided a lot of new information. His main purpose was to recall the original intention of the . The point of most of his teachings was to correct deviances that had been introduced into rabbinic tradition. But most certainly, I do agree that Yeshua's teachings (the Gospels) complement and enhance the .

rayvanderburg said:

And yes I have a western concept of Yeshua because i life in Holland. That doesn't meen I agree with everything they think of Yeshua's here. For example we should keep Sabbat on saturday like the Jews do and Yeshua "did". But thats an other discussion. What I meen is that it isn't wrong to have a western concept of Yeshua as long as you try to find the truth in the Book, and New Testament.
Vrede!

I think it goes without saying that we start from where we are. No one can be blamed for that. I realized that very early in my walk, and began to work at recognizing my own cultural boundaries, and growing past them. The first serious book I ever read that helped with that was, "Manners and Customs of the Bible", by Freeman. This book explains many of the cultural oddities in the Bible from an Eastern perspective.

This was a good first step in my path of learning to see the Scriptures through the eyes of the original authors.

Shalom,

Mishkan David

[Mpossoff]

Yeshua The Messiah is G-d.

He "tabernacled" with us: And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.

Marc

admin said:

Whom do you say Yeshua The Messiah is?

[Chizuk Emunah]

Shalom All! Here are some things to consider: (I know I am in the minority opinion here, but bear with me)

• If Rabbi Y'hoshua was G-d, then how is it possible that he was born of a woman? For how can the HaKadosh Baruch Hu (The Holy One, Blessed be He) be confined to a mortal body?
  
  
• If Rabbi Y'hoshua was G-d, then why didn't he say he was? Why did he refer to himself as the Son of Man (Ben-Adam)?
  
  
• Why did Rabbi Y'hoshua say he had nowhere to lay his head? (Matt. 8:19-20) For it says in the Psalms, "That the earth is HaShem’s, and the fullness thereof, the world, and the inhabitants therein."
  
  
• Why did Rabbi Y'hoshua say, "To sit at my right hand and at my left is not mine to give, but it shall be given to them, for whom it is prepared of my Father?" (Matt. 20:23) If the Son is less powerful than the Father, how can it be asserted that the Father and Son are one?
  
  
• If he was G-d, why was Rabbi Y'hoshua tempted? Can G-d be tempted to do evil by HaSatan? Furthermore, why would G-d allow HaSatan to tempt himself?
  (Matt. 4:1-11; Luke 4:1-13)
  
  
• If Rabbi Y'hoshua was G-d, then why did he not know when he would return, is not G-d Omniscient? (Mark 13:32)
  
  
• If he was G-d, why did Rabbi Y'hoshua not direct all worship towards himself, but instead directed it towards the Father?
  
  
• If he was G-d, why did Rabbi Y’hoshua say, “All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth?” (Matt. 28:18) To G-d, nothing can be given; for “Unto him belongs the dominion and the power."
  
  
• Why did Rabbi Y’hoshua say, “Why do you call me good? There is none good but one and that is G-d?” (Matt.19:16)
  
  
• Why did Rabbi Y’hoshua say that he came to minister as a servant? (Matt. 20:28) Do we presume that the Almighty G-d is our servant?
  
  
• If Rabbi Y’hoshua was G-d then why did he say, “For I came down from the heavens not to do my own will, but the will of Him that sent me?” (John 6:38)
  
  
• Why did Rabbi Y’hoshua say, "And this is life eternal, that they might know You, the only true G-d, and Y’hoshua HaMashiach, whom you have sent."
  (John 17:3)
  
  
• If he was G-d, why did Rabbi Y’hoshua say, “Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father; but go to my brethren, and say to them, I ascend to my Father and your Father, and to my G-d and your G-d?" (John 20:17)
  
  
• Why did Rabbi Y'hoshua pray saying, "O, my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me; nevertheless, not as I will, but as you will," if the Father and the Son are identical, and that the design of the one agrees with that of the other? (Matityahu 26:39)
  
  
• If he was G-d, why did Rabbi Y'hoshua cry out to G-d, "My G-d, my G-d, why have you forsaken me?" (Matt. 27:46; Mark 15:34)
  
  
• How can a limitless G-d die? (Matt. 27:46)
  
  
• Lastly, how do we get around these two verses?
  
  G-d is not a man, that he should lie; neither the Son of Man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good? [B'midbar(Numbers) 23:19]
  
  I will not execute the fierceness of mine anger, I will not return to destroy Ephraim: for I am G-d, and not a man; the Holy One in the midst of thee: and I will not enter into the city. [Hoshea 11:9]
  

Shalom,
Natanel

[Mpossoff]

Hi Natanel,

First I would like to say that I believe it's "dangerous" to deny Yeshua's deity that He is G-d.

I'm not saying you are.

Does it make sense? No it doesn't.

Is it suppose too to make sense? I'm not sure.

First His conception wasn't a natural conception. If it was then He couldn't be Messiah.

Another thing is there are many "titles" for Him such as High Priest, King and more.

How can He be King?

Marc

[Pioneer]

mpossoff said:

Yeshua The Messiah is G-d.

He "tabernacled" with us: And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.

Marc

admin said:

Whom do you say Yeshua The Messiah is?

You said a mouthful, yet you said the "Word, the the only begotten of the Father. Nowhere does it say God dwelt among us!
He Yeshua is at the right hand of the Father. Now born of the Spirit, before born of the flesh. Holy Blood, but born of a woman.

One must not haul a truck load of Hellenized garbage back into the swept out mind. Matthew 12:43-45
A good source of information is Dr. Roy Blizzards "Who is Jesus?"
A title given Yeshua is God is with us! He Yeshua is the "Sent one"
He says over and over again He is sent. Not, I came!
I'll butt out, just jerked my chain!
Shalom

[Mpossoff]

Hi Pioneer,

Thanks.

Marc

pioneer said:

mpossoff said:

Yeshua The Messiah is G-d.

He "tabernacled" with us: And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.

Marc

You said a mouthful, yet you said the "Word, the the only begotten of the Father. Nowhere does it say God dwelt among us!
He Yeshua is at the right hand of the Father. Now born of the Spirit, before born of the flesh. Holy Blood, but born of a woman.

One must not haul a truck load of Hellenized garbage back into the swept out mind. Matthew 12:43-45
A good source of information is Dr. Roy Blizzards "Who is Jesus?"
A title given Yeshua is God is with us! He Yeshua is the "Sent one"
He says over and over again He is sent. Not, I came!
I'll butt out, just jerked my chain!
Shalom