The Essence Of Mashiach...

[Rayvanderburg]

Shalom pioneer,
Thank you for your reaction.
But I don't exactly see in John 1:1-5 that Yeshua created all things. Through the word all things became and in that word there was life and that is the light of men. Bacuase I think Yeshua is the light of "this earth/ men" it seems to be he's in the word and the word was with God and god was the word. Quite difficult! In John 1:9-10 you can also read that Yeshua is the light. The "treu" light was coming in the world and the world became through him. Now it's a matter of how you define "trough" in became "through" him. I think God made it through Yeshua. So you can read in Genesis 1:26, let us make humans. There's "us" written. That means God made humans together with someone. I think with/through Yeshua.
And don't forget we are made in the image of God and Yeshua (because God is the word and the word is Yeshua). By looking to all the true good in your head, heart and your soul, the light that shines in you (though it might be not so intens as Yeshua's light), is a very good way to know who Yeshua was,is and will be, to know what that light is.
Trust the word!

[Pioneer]

rayvanderburg said:

Shalom pioneer,
Thank you for your reaction.
But I don't exactly see in John 1:1-5 that Yeshua created all things. Through the word all things became and in that word there was life and that is the light of men. Bacuase I think Yeshua is the light of "this earth/ men" it seems to be he's in the word and the word was with God and god was the word. Quite difficult! In John 1:9-10 you can also read that Yeshua is the light. The "treu" light was coming in the world and the world became through him. Now it's a matter of how you define "trough" in became "through" him. I think God made it through Yeshua. So you can read in Genesis 1:26, let us make humans. There's "us" written. That means God made humans together with someone. I think with/through Yeshua.
And don't forget we are made in the image of God and Yeshua (because God is the word and the word is Yeshua). By looking to all the true good in your head, heart and your soul, the light that shines in you (though it might be not so intens as Yeshua's light), is a very good way to know who Yeshua was,is and will be, to know what that light is.
Trust the word!

Yes all the above. Yeshua is the "First-born of all creation." After He was first born He created all that was created. The the truth, the light and the life, Yeshua is the made flesh. Yeshua said as confirmation John 14:6 Jesus said to him, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me. Joh 9:5 "As long as I am in the world, I am the light of the world." Man lives by ; Mt 4:4 But He answered and said, "It is written, ‘Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God.’" proceeded from the mouth of God/Yeshua is the .
There is God and then there is all that follows.

Shalom Alichem

[Mark]

How can Yeshua be a creating being and yet still consider Himself to be equal to God?

Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
(Phi 2:5-6 KJV)

[R' Y'hoshua Moshe]

Shalom and welcome to the forum Rayvanderburg

But heaven and earth (the whole universe I think) were made before that light. So says the Book.

I have heard said that the light that was created was Yeshua, but I don't believe it is the case because it is said of Yeshua that he was with YHVH from the beginning...even before the foundations of the world...

"And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world." - Rev. 13:18

“Father, I desire that they also whom you have given me be with me where I am, that they may see my glory, which you have given me, for you loved me before the foundation of the world.”
- Yochanan (John) 17:24

How is one loved before the foundation of the world if He did not exist before the foundation of the world? Furthermore, it is said that Yeshua did the creating...did he create Himself? And, if the Heaven, Earth, and Universe was created before Yeshua we have a problem because the scriptures say that He created these things. How is He to create these things if He was not existent? What do the prophets speak of Messiah?...

Yeshua The Messiah has been existent from the beginning of time…

"Come you near to me, hear you this; from the beginning I have not spoken in secret; from the time that it was, there am I: and now adonai YHVH has sent me, and his Spirit." - YeshaYahu (Isai.) 48:16

Here is what the scriptures teach of Messiah...

“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with Elohim, and the Word was Elohim. The same was in the beginning with Elohim. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.” - Yochanan (John) 1:1-3

Shalom chaver,

Reuel

[Rayvanderburg]

Pioneer.
Sorry but I don't exactly know if you agree with me that Yeshua is that light that's created in Genesis1:3-4. If you do, than heaven and earth were made before Yeshua though the earth was wild and empty. Afther that God said; "let there be light"; let there be Yeshua (I believe).
And this raises an other question in me; if Yeshua is that light, then what is the darkness that was there on earth(Gensis1:2)? Maybe pure evil; satan?? I'm not sure!
Any suggestions?!
After God made Yeshua, life was made on earth and everything else you can read in Genesis1, dry land, seas, rivers, gras, threes of all kind, the sun, the moon, the stars, fish, birds, other animals and humans. All that through Yeshua. I see that like if Yeshua, in a good way, made God create all that and us. So thanks to Yeshua we're alive, but God created us.
With peace!

[Rayvanderburg]

Sorry Reuel, I read your message to late but.....
Didn't God made "The Light" wright a way, from the beginning. When was the worlds foundation? What does foundation mean? Why doesn't it say creation of the earth? Because it's another moment maybe.
God made heaven and earth but the universe was empty for the rest! Yeshua made God fill it.
And isn't it still the beginning when that light was made.
(Reuel, maybe you can be a bit more clear where I can find the text you meen, Cause if I look in my Bible I find some other text. And if I read it in my own language it's more easy to understand. Thank you!)

[R' Y'hoshua Moshe]

I believe that Hashamayim v'HaEretz are the foundations of the world....

“In the beginning created Elohim the heaven and the earth.” - Beresheet (Gen.) 1:1

The scriptures I have outlined communicate that Yeshua was in the beginning with the Father before creation. “In the beginning” speaks of the point before creation as, “created Elohim the heaven and the earth” follows this point. The prophet Yeshayahu (Isai.) witnesses that Messiah was existent even before time existed. Does not the very beginning of day one (at the very least) constitute the beginning of time? Yet, Messiah is said to have existed before time.

Shalom chaver,

Reuel

[Pioneer]

rayvanderburg said:

Pioneer.
Sorry but I don't exactly know if you agree with me that Yeshua is that light that's created in Genesis1:3-4. If you do, than heaven and earth were made before Yeshua though the earth was wild and empty. Afther that God said; "let there be light"; let there be Yeshua (I believe).
And this raises an other question in me; if Yeshua is that light, then what is the darkness that was there on earth(Gensis1:2)? Maybe pure evil; satan?? I'm not sure!
Any suggestions?!
After God made Yeshua, life was made on earth and everything else you can read in Genesis1, dry land, seas, rivers, gras, threes of all kind, the sun, the moon, the stars, fish, birds, other animals and humans. All that through Yeshua. I see that like if Yeshua, in a good way, made God create all that and us. So thanks to Yeshua we're alive, but God created us.
With peace!

Not exactlly! Berishis bara Elohim et(et in works of the sages is the letters/words of the alephbet) Aleph Tav is equal to the Alpha and Omega of Revelations. The beginning and the end. the first born of all creation. This then is what John the Kabbalist says "In the beginning was the word." The word then created the heavens and the earth.

For me this is the only way that all of the parts of the scriptures fit.

The Sages and the Zohar contend that the words were created first. The words are and the being spoken created the heavens and the earth.

The NT says; All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made.
So this includes the foundations of the earth.
There was God and in Him was the word, the word came forth and all that was created, was created by the word.
The word/ was made flesh and dwelt among us.

Shalom

[R' Y'hoshua Moshe]

Well said Pioneer!

[The 614th Mitzvot]

Yeshua Moshiach is Emet (true); therefore he is , therefore he "the word", and "the word" is light, where there is light there exists Yeshua HaMoshiach. He was and is the light of the world and in all goodness and cheer and joy he is there (as scientists have found, you are a happier person with more sunlight). First came truth because HaShem is truth, and in another descent from the heavens the is truth, and in the 3rd descent from the heavens the is what was spoken when HaShem created light. Everything that brings joy is in Moshiach because he is the light of the world. However, in the darkness, HaShem is there, the Ruach HaKodesh. The Ruach HaKodesh is what was promised to aide us in the darkness when Yeshua HaMoshiach ascended. This is the reason for the name "Ruach HaKodesh " "breath of holiness". He is the only thing that can be felt in our darkest times. Just as when we are all alone and in a dark place we can only hear, feel, smell, and taste is our own breath. We know we are still alive and well because we are breathing. This is the breath of holiness, it tells us all and lets us know that everything is fine and HaShem is here as our protector. He is what sweeps over us in the darkest hour to remind us of all holiness and of HaKodesh Baruch Hu (the Holy One, Blessed Be He). Yet, because of the Yichud, the oneness, there is no true seperation, so even Yeshua came in one of the darkest hours of our history and will come again in our darkest hour. And when all is right in the world we still have epiphanes wich eminate from the Ruach HaKodesh. So because of this absolute oneness, it is not as though one influences the other, but rather that one is informed and the same one is acting like a single unit.

Pioneer.
Sorry but I don't exactly know if you agree with me that Yeshua is that light that's created in Genesis1:3-4. If you do, than heaven and earth were made before Yeshua though the earth was wild and empty. Afther that God said; "let there be light"; let there be Yeshua (I believe).
And this raises an other question in me; if Yeshua is that light, then what is the darkness that was there on earth(Gensis1:2)? Maybe pure evil; satan?? I'm not sure!
Any suggestions?!
After God made Yeshua, life was made on earth and everything else you can read in Genesis1, dry land, seas, rivers, gras, threes of all kind, the sun, the moon, the stars, fish, birds, other animals and humans. All that through Yeshua. I see that like if Yeshua, in a good way, made God create all that and us. So thanks to Yeshua we're alive, but God created us.
With peace!

Not exactlly! Berishis bara Elohim et(et in works of the sages is the letters/words of the alephbet) Aleph Tav is equal to the Alpha and Omega of Revelations. The beginning and the end. the first born of all creation. This then is what John the Kabbalist says "In the beginning was the word." The word then created the heavens and the earth.

For me this is the only way that all of the parts of the scriptures fit.

The Sages and the Zohar contend that the words were created first. The words are and the being spoken created the heavens and the earth.

The NT says; All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made.
So this includes the foundations of the earth.
There was God and in Him was the word, the word came forth and all that was created, was created by the word.
The word/ was made flesh and dwelt among us.

Shalom

Exactly, however, none of this was indeed created as we think of creation, but before there was light there was and before anything, outside the realm of time, was HaShem and HaShem is Moshiach Yeshua is Ruach HaKodesh in perfect Yichud. Shema Yisroel HAShem Eloqeynu HaShem Echad.

[Rayvanderburg]

Well can anyone tell me what that light is than(Genesis1:3). Because it's not the sun or so. According to John1:4-5 that light is in the word. So if Yeshua is the word, the light is in Him. I still believe Yeshua is the light of this world and the word. But if it's not that light being said in Genesis1, I don't know what that light is. Any ideas?
Another question; what or who is Hashamayim v'HaEretz ?

[Chizuk Emunah]

First, let me say that I agree with that which has already been stated by Pioneer, Reuel, and 614th Mitzvot. I also agree with 614th Mitzvot that the Moshiach has eternally existed in the Mind of Elohim and therefore pre-existed Creation.

So if Yeshua is the word, the light is in Him. I still believe Yeshua is the light of this world and the word. But if it's not that light being said in Genesis1, I don't know what that light is. Any ideas?

Sure do. Here you go:
Tehillim (Psalms) 119:105
Your word is a lamp to my feet And a light to my path. The answer my friend is . is the Way, the Truth, and the Light. Yeshua is the Way, the Truth, and the Light. Therefore, Yeshua is the living, breathing .

Another question; what or who is Hashamayim v'HaEretz

It's Hebrew. It means: Ha (the) Shamayim (heavens) v (a prefix which usually means and) Ha (the) Eretz (Earth, but can also mean the Land of Israel depending on the context).

[messimom]

The 614th Mitzvot said:

The Ruach HaKodesh is what was promised to aide us in the darkness when Yeshua HaMoshiach ascended. This is the reason for the name "Ruach HaKodesh " "breath of holiness". He is the only thing that can be felt in our darkest times. Just as when we are all alone and in a dark place we can only hear, feel, smell, and taste is our own breath. We know we are still alive and well because we are breathing. This is the breath of holiness, it tells us all and lets us know that everything is fine and HaShem is here as our protector. He is what sweeps over us in the darkest hour to remind us of all holiness and of HaKodesh Baruch Hu (the Holy One, Blessed Be He). Yet, because of the Yichud, the oneness, there is no true seperation, so even Yeshua came in one of the darkest hours of our history and will come again in our darkest hour. And when all is right in the world we still have epiphanes wich eminate from the Ruach HaKodesh. So because of this absolute oneness, it is not as though one influences the other, but rather that one is informed and the same one is acting like a single unit.

I have never heard it described that way. Beautiful.

Messimom

[messimom]

What about the phrase "first born of all creation"? I may be wrong here, but I think some are interpreting this phrase as "first created of all creation" and I think that is wrong. First born, is set apart, consecrated, holy for YHVH.

Numbers 3: 13: for all the first-born are mine; on the day that I slew all the first-born in the land of Egypt, I consecrated for my own all the first-born in Israel, both of man and of beast; they shall be mine: I am the LORD."

Yeshua is YHVH's first born. His one and only "child" on this earth, and therefore His firstborn. He is the redeemer.

Numbers 18: 15: Everything that opens the womb of all flesh, whether man or beast, which they offer to the LORD, shall be yours; nevertheless the first-born of man you shall redeem, and the firstling of unclean beasts you shall redeem.

Yeshua is also the firstborn/firstfruits of resurrection. There are many verses throughout the Bible which refers to Yeshua as being first born, yet if they are read within their context, I don't believe they are referring to literal firstborn of all creation, rather an appointed post, or title.

Psalm 89: 27: And I will make him the first-born, the highest of the kings of the earth.

In Psalm 89:27 Kind David is being spoken of. Now, David was obviously not the first man born. But rather he has been given the privileges of a first born here. Also Ephriam is also referred to as a first born, but logistically, technically is not. He has received the blessings of a first born.

As has Yeshua, the blessings and rights and responsibilities of a first born.

Hebrews 1: 2: but in these last days he has spoken to us by a Son, whom he appointed the heir of all things, through whom also he created the world.

3: He reflects the glory of God and bears the very stamp of his nature, upholding the universe by his word of power. When he had made purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high,

4: having become as much superior to angels as the name he has obtained is more excellent than theirs.

5: For to what angel did God ever say, "Thou art my Son, today I have begotten thee"? Or again, "I will be to him a father, and he shall be to me a son"?

6: And again, when he brings the first-born into the world, he says, "Let all God's angels worship him."

And as first fruits with Yeshua's sacrifice he is the first redeemed of the dead for the resurrection. In that sense, all others who shall be risen after him and been given the gift of everlasting life come after him. Yeshua is then, the first born of all creation--the rest of us just haven't caught up to him yet. I know there were others before him (Abraham, Moses, etc...) who were saved by their faith, but the first-born (YHVH's flesh so to speak) hadn't been born or redeemed yet so in that sense I guess I would look at as them waiting in God's green room. Asleep and waiting.

Colossians 1: 13: He has delivered us from the dominion of darkness and transferred us to the kingdom of his beloved Son,

14: in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins.

15: He is the image of the invisible God, the first-born of all creation;

16: for in him all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or authorities -- all things were created through him and for him.

17: He is before all things, and in him all things hold together.

18: He is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning, the first-born from the dead, that in everything he might be pre-eminent.

Zechariah 12: 10: "And I will pour out on the house of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem a spirit of compassion and supplication, so that, when they look on him whom they have pierced, they shall mourn for him, as one mourns for an only child, and weep bitterly over him, as one weeps over a first-born.

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Period.

That's my take on the subject.

Messimom

[Rayvanderburg]

To Netzar Y'hudi,
If Yeshua is the living, breathing Thora that means the light is in him (John1:4-5). Or is it one and the same, the word(Thora) and the light? Maybe the light was made in Thora in Genesis1:3-4. So Thora, the word, Yeshua was already but the light was made in Him in Genesis1:3-4.
In the word there was life and that life is the light of humans. Does this mean that that light in Genesis1:3-4 is life?
And what is Thora exactly, the old testament and the new testament or only the old testament? I think both.
I find it very difficult but I wanne trust the word and am on my way to understand.