|
|
Post by alon on Oct 22, 2015 18:49:56 GMT -8
... 2 Cor. 11:4 For if he who came toward you had proclaimed to you another Yeshua whom we had not proclaimed, or you had received another spirit that you had not received, or another good news that you had not accepted, you might have been persuaded well.[/color] Okay, so Rabbi Saul says that there is another Yeshua, another spirit, and another good news (Gospel). Let's take a look and see what he might be talking about.[/quote] Just a point of clarification: Rav Sha'ul was saying this other good news was a false gospel, right?
Dan C |
|
|
|
Post by alon on Oct 22, 2015 20:12:12 GMT -8
... When did Yeshua say that? I tell you what he did say< and i quote: " those who have my teaching , have me, those who go further, or try to go further, do not have me" This is a stark warning laid in wisdom. I've been wondering about this chapter... It always made me think that only the Yehudim were required to keep the  in full while the Gentiles were bound by the laws of Noah. Gal 5:25 If we live by the Spirit, let's also walk by the Spirit. Gal 5:26 Let's not become conceited, provoking one another, and envying one another. (HNV) I can tell you how I interpret Galatians 5, as a Christian When I read through Galatians, it seems to me that Paul is refuting the very idea that was posted in the original post....that salvation comes by following the law. Rather, I see Paul saying here that Christ is what matters. If a person has faith in Him, then that is what justifies them.
Living by the Spirit as a Christian doctrine is also a deadly heresy; I call it the "do as yur sinful li'l ole heart desires" doctrine."We who are Jews by birth and not `Gentile sinners'" is an important excerpt here. This is why these heretics were preaching to Gentile converts: they knew that a Jew would know better and send them packing!
Justification is a complex topic. It basically means that we are acquitted and pronounced righteous as an act of grace, not by our own merits. This we as Messianics agree with, although not entirely as Christian denominations see it. As I said, it is a very involved doctrinal issue. Christians don't even agree amongst themselves here either.
The biggest point of disagreement is in understanding what it means to be under the law. They say salvation removes us from any obligations to obey the law. We look at it as the Jews; if you do not violate the law, you are not under its penalty. If you do, then you are. It's a simple syllogism. Go 50 in a 25 and a cop sees you, you are under the penalty of the law really quickly. Go 25, and you are not. Does the law still apply to you? You bet! Just not the penalty.
This is what it means to us to be in right standing with Hashem; we keep His . Does this save us? No, we were still saved by grace through faith and justified by Him. But there is still James 2:20 (ESV) Do you want to be shown, you foolish person, that faith apart from works is useless?Yes, you would see it that way. The truth is Rav Sha'ul was responding to those who were spreading this heresy that your salvation comes by observance. Every good Jew at that time knew the law never saved anyone. It was a curse to you if you broke it- a testament against you. It didn't save you, rather showed you how Elohim wanted you to live. But again, Gentiles such as this poster had little understanding and, as such were easy prey for false teachers. Rav Sha'ul is frustrated here that when he left these new believers the wolves came and they so easily fell away. The Nots'rim of Sha'ul's day, just as the Meshiachim today, kept to please Hashem and keep in good standing with Him; not to be saved. Those who try to keep to be saved will invariably fall short and so bring destruction on themselves. Like going 50 in q 25, you are going to jail! Technically, even 26 is a violation. Who can tell me they've never went over the posted speed, even when they were trying not to? We have grace not so we can sin (Christianity), but because we just ain't that perfect. Here is a quote from Vines Expositionary Dictionary, a Christian publication. But it does nail the essence of justification: ""Justification" is primarily and gratuitously by faith, subsequently and evidentially by works." Here is the danger in the convoluted doctrine presented by Christians. Taken as individual comments, I think I'd agree with almost everything he says here. But arranged as he does it, these comments become an excuse to ditch the law in favor of "the Spirit," who speaks to you and who you interpret. How can I argue with what is in your head? Go ahead and shoot me, if that's what the "Spirit" told you to do ... right! How many preachers would say that if you were pointing a gun at them? Yet they preach this very doctrine every Sunday. But is that what these scriptures really say? Well ...
"If you let yourselves be circumcised, Christ will be of no value to you at all." This means if you convert to Judaism as a requirement for salvation, you ain't. You need only read on, "You who are trying to be justified by law have been alienated from Christ;" God declares you justified; you can't do it yourself, however hard you try.
"You were running a good race. Who cut in on you and kept you from obeying the truth? ... As for those agitators, I wish they would go the whole way and emasculate themselves!" Again, Rav Sha'ul was showing his frustration here. He was also being very insulting to the agitators. There was a practice amongst the pagans of the time which was very popular with the early church, and that was self castration. Extremely insulting to a male to be told to do this; but more than that he was comparing them to the Christians!
"In other words, the standard that the Christian is to have is love." No, that was not the only standard nor the only fruit of the Spirit. Important as it is, it is also as easy to abuse this term as it is the word "grace." The standard is to follow God's instructions, then you will have "luuv" in abundance. And His instructions are in .
Dan C
|
|
|
|
Post by john75 on Oct 23, 2015 6:19:26 GMT -8
Thank you for your loquacious reply Dan. I'm glad someone else sees my point on this matter. I think this site holds promise for fellowship, even if not in person.
|
|
|
|
Post by Elizabeth on Oct 23, 2015 8:50:04 GMT -8
Yeah, the problem is we can't disagree on one level with Christianity because we are saying the same thing. We are saved by grace. No argument here or with Galatians. The argument is that we see as a source of grace and they see it as a burden. I don't know how to argue that point with people who are so ingrained with a twisted concept of freedom that sees a day devoted to G-d as a burden, and G-d's instruction about what is proper for us as worthy to be discarded rather than cherrished. |
|
|
|
Post by jimmie on Oct 23, 2015 10:00:57 GMT -8
Amen.
|
|
|
|
Post by john75 on Oct 23, 2015 10:59:15 GMT -8
Yeah, nicely put Elizabath. The sabbath should not be a burden.
|
|
- there are 70 faces to 
