The False Gospel

[Rachel]

Brig'ett,

I don't want to leave my church, I was just wondering if it was still ok to keep going.... I'm figuring that it's ok in addition to keeping the Sabbath. My church is the Temple of Peace Church of God. When I first started learning about the Sabbath and some of the other things I felt I had been mislead and didn't want anything to do with "regular" church. I realize I was going too far the other way. That's not love. Now that I've had time to think and pray (this site helped a lot too I want to fellowship with them too. I just hope I can find some Messianic believers to learn and share with too.

May He bless and keep you,
Rach

[Rachel]

Brig'ett

Yeah I've read some of their stuff. I agree with some, but I thought some of it a little weird too. I know one of them (can't remember names) thinks he's one of the two witnesses of the end times

Oh well! I much prefer the Messianic point of view. I've always been very curious about how the Jewish people worship G*d. I really like what I'm finding out and enjoy all the knew ideas!

See ya,
Rach

[Nashdude]

Jun 8, 2008 17:35:07 GMT -8 Rachel said:

I know one of them (can't remember names) thinks he's one of the two witnesses of the end times

Problem with that... the two witnesses will be men endowed with all manner of supernatural ability from God. They will be men of great miracles that appear on the world scene AFTER the beginning of the Seventieth Week, which is heralded by a period of "peace" in Israel. That "peace" ain't happened yet

I could be way wrong, but I have my own personal pick for who the two witnesses will be. Consider this...

Hebrews 9:27 -- And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

Appointed = laid away, reserved. Each and every man who has ever lived MUST die at least once. In some cases, such as Lazarus and Jairus' daughter, the individual may actually die more than once, but everyone must face death AT LEAST once before their judgment in eternity. But we know from the Bible that there are a few folks who have NEVER died---Elijah, and Enoch.

Interesting to me that, in all of history from Adam on down, the number of men recorded to have "escaped" death is exactly two. Coincidence? Doubt it.

[Rachel]

Yeah, when I read that I kinda just shook my head and moved on. I don't think he'd be the only one to know if he WAS one of the witnesses!

[nasah]

I believe the Good news Gospel to be the News that now while we walk in and fail, we are now no longer condemned because Yeshua took away the sins of the world.

There's now no condemnation for those who are in Christ who walk after the Spirit and not the flesh, (i see the latter part of the verse a stipulation for walking an obedient walk after the Spirit, manifest by our fruit.) Unfortunately even that gets hyper-spiritualized by saying we don't need to produce fruit, ah those evil evil works!!!!!

Shalom,
nasah

[lawrenceofisrael]

Amin brother. We have Yeshua the son of the heavenly Father. There is no other way but him and all others who claim to be salvation are false prophets.
The Apostel Shaul ( may the Lord remember him ) made it very clear that only those who seek the kingdom of God through him and have faith in him are saved. Yeshua is our authority and by following him we automatically follow all the other examples of the bible, like the prophets, jugdes, righteous kings, talmidim, apostles etc.
The good news we have is that we do have to die in the flesh but our bones will be clothed with flesh again and we shall live forever in joy in a pure, clean and holy world.
May the Lord multiply the number of the believers and may he restore the faith of those who became weak and may he help us to bring all the infidels to his grace and may he change us to obedient children, seeking only his pleasure, doing what is permissible and good in his eyes and avoiding the forbidden
Shalom b´shem adonenu, morenu v´rabbenu melekh yeshua ha moshiach.

[youneverletgo]

Feb 17, 2005 3:01:48 GMT -8 Blake said:

I've been wondering about this chapter... It always made me think that only the Yehudim were required to keep the in full while the Gentiles were bound by the laws of Noah.


Gal 5:25 If we live by the Spirit, let's also walk by the Spirit.
Gal 5:26 Let's not become conceited, provoking one another, and envying one another. (HNV)

I can tell you how I interpret Galatians 5, as a Christian

When I read through Galatians, it seems to me that Paul is refuting the very idea that was posted in the original post....that salvation comes by following the law. Rather, I see Paul saying here that Christ is what matters. If a person has faith in Him, then that is what justifies them.

Paul asks this question:
GAL 2:15 "We who are Jews by birth and not `Gentile sinners' 16 know that a man is not justified by observing the law, but by faith in Jesus Christ. So we, too, have put our faith in Christ Jesus that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by observing the law, because by observing the law no one will be justified.

GAL 2:17 "If, while we seek to be justified in Christ, it becomes evident that we ourselves are sinners, does that mean that Christ promotes sin? Absolutely not! 18 If I rebuild what I destroyed, I prove that I am a lawbreaker. 19 For through the law I died to the law so that I might live for God. 20 I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. The life I live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me. 21 I do not set aside the grace of God, for if righteousness could be gained through the law, Christ died for nothing!"

GAL 3:1 You foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you? Before your very eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed as crucified. 2 I would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by observing the law, or by believing what you heard? 3 Are you so foolish? After beginning with the Spirit, are you now trying to attain your goal by human effort? 4 Have you suffered so much for nothing--if it really was for nothing? 5 Does God give you his Spirit and work miracles among you because you observe the law, or because you believe what you heard?

Because this is all one letter that Paul wrote to the Galatians, this helps give a context for what Paul is talking about in chapter 5. I see Paul saying in chapter 5 that followers of Jesus need to live by the Spirit.

GAL 5:2 Mark my words! I, Paul, tell you that if you let yourselves be circumcised, Christ will be of no value to you at all. 3 Again I declare to every man who lets himself be circumcised that he is obligated to obey the whole law. 4 You who are trying to be justified by law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace. 5 But by faith we eagerly await through the Spirit the righteousness for which we hope. 6 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision has any value. The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love

GAL 5:7 You were running a good race. Who cut in on you and kept you from obeying the truth? 8 That kind of persuasion does not come from the one who calls you. 9 "A little yeast works through the whole batch of dough." 10 I am confident in the Lord that you will take no other view. The one who is throwing you into confusion will pay the penalty, whoever he may be. 11 Brothers, if I am still preaching circumcision, why am I still being persecuted? In that case the offense of the cross has been abolished. 12 As for those agitators, I wish they would go the whole way and emasculate themselves!

GAL 5:13 You, my brothers, were called to be free. But do not use your freedom to indulge the sinful nature; rather, serve one another in love. 14 The entire law is summed up in a single command: "Love your neighbor as yourself." 15 If you keep on biting and devouring each other, watch out or you will be destroyed by each other.

GAL 5:16 So I say, live by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the sinful nature. 17 For the sinful nature desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the sinful nature. They are in conflict with each other, so that you do not do what you want. 18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under law.

GAL 5:19 The acts of the sinful nature are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; 20 idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions 21 and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.

GAL 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law. 24 Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the sinful nature with its passions and desires. 25 Since we live by the Spirit, let us keep in step with the Spirit. 26 Let us not become conceited, provoking and envying each other.


In other words, the standard that the Christian is to have is love. If you are living by the Spirit, and are in step with Him, you will want to serve others, love them, and bring glory to God. The fruit of the Spirit will be evident in your life -- the fruit being love, joy, peace patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control. A life in Christ cannot be done through our own effort. The person has to trust and rely on God. Christianity is not about rules. It is about having a personal relationship with God. Jesus is our righteousness, and we need to keep our eyes fixed on Him and we need to rely on the Holy Spirit.

It seems to me that Paul is saying by focusing on the law and making, believers in Jesus are focusing on the wrong thing. The focus needs to be on Christ and in living by the Spirit.

No one is justified by following the law....rather we are justified by faith in Christ.

[youneverletgo]

Mar 31, 2005 19:28:11 GMT -8 Rick said:

Watch 5 min. of the Trinity Broadcasting Network (more than that can cause a voilent reaction), and you can see the sorry state of the "popular Christian culture".

This is what many Christians think of the Trinity Broadcasting Network:
www.apologeticsindex.org/t27.html

TBN: "The Blasphemy Network"

TBN, the Trinity Broadcasting Network, is the world's largest religious TV network. It claims to be a Christian ministry. However, while some legitimate ministries and teachers (those who adhere to the orthodox teachings and practices of historical Christianity) appear on TBN, the network - led by founders Paul and Jan Crouch - promotes such an incredible amount of heretical material, including extremist Word-Faith teachings, that it is often referred to as "The Blasphemy Network."

Heresy, Heresy, Heresy

Most of TBN's shows present the world with a mockery of Christianity, in which tall stories, unbiblical teachings, false prophecies, un-Christlike behavior and the love of money occupy center state.

Paul and Jan Crouch frequently join their guests, among whom TBN star Benny Hinn, in verbally attacking those who call TBN to accountability for its blasphemous teachings and its unbiblical practices.
The parade of guests who are featured on Paul and Jan Crouch's TBN programming runs the gamut from the serious, sound Christian thinkers and ministers to the superficial, silly, and outright heretical. How many viewers can tell the difference? How many care to try? Spiritual gullibility is widespread throughout our culture, of course, but the Word-Faith movement is part of the problem, not part of the solution.
Source: The Word-Faith Controversy : Understanding the Health and Wealth GospelOff-site Link by Robert Bowman. (See details)
Back To Top

The Bible tells Christians to teach sound doctrine, to confront and counter errorenous teachings, and to be on the alert for false teachers.

The Bible says:
All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, {17} so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.
Source: 2 Timothy 3:16-17 NIV
Back To Top

Paul Crouch, however, has a message for those who dare to rebuke and correct him:
To hell with you! Get out of my life! Get out of the way!…I say get out of God's way! Quit blocking God's bridges or God's going to shoot you if I don't…I don't even want to even talk to you or hear you! I don't want to see your ugly face!
Source: Paul Crouch, Praise-a-thon, April 2, 1991

Money, Money, Money

TBN's founders and leaders, Jan and Paul Crouch, tirelessly promote the so-called "Prosperity Gospel." Based on a deliberate misrepresentation of Biblical teachings, it is in reality a financial scam that can be classified as 'affinity fraud' (scams directed at people who may think that a common affiliation, such as membership of a church, club or organization, reduces or prevents the possibility of fraud).

Pastor Paul Crouch calls it "God's economy of giving," and here is how it works:

People who donate to Crouch's Trinity Broadcasting Network will reap financial blessings from a grateful God. The more they give TBN, the more he will give them.

Being broke or in debt is no excuse not to write a check. In fact, it's an ideal opportunity. For God is especially generous to those who give when they can least afford it.

"He'll give you thousands, hundreds of thousands," Crouch told his viewers during a telethon last November. "He'll give millions and billions of dollars."

Preachers who pass the hat while praising the Lord have long been the stuff of ridicule in film and fiction. But for Crouch and his Orange County-based television ministry, God's economy of giving is no laughing matter. It brings a rich bounty, year after year.

Crouch has used a doctrine called the "prosperity gospel" to underwrite a worldwide broadcasting network and a life of luxury for himself and his family.

For at least a century, preachers have plied the notion that dropping money in the collection plate will bring blessings from God — material as well as spiritual. But Crouch, through inspired salesmanship and advanced telecommunications technology, has converted this timeworn creed into a potent financial engine.
Source: TBN's Promise: Send Money and See Riches, Los Angeles Times, Sep. 20, 2004


In other words, while some Christians follow after Trinity Broadcasting Network, many of us do not. We think what is being promoted on there is heresy and blasphemy.

Please do not think that such teachings are representative of Christianity or Christian teachings.

The same can be said for God TV.

www.apologeticsindex.org/c100.html

Europe's version of the Trinity Broadcasting Network, with which it appears to be affiliated. Just like TBN, it promotes a vast array of heretical teachings, with an emphasis on Word-Faith theology.

Founded by Rory and Wendy Alec.


I know that I said I was done posting here, but I couldn't help but say something here, lest all Christians be painted as following after those who are promoted on Trinity Broadcasting Network and God TV.

[jimmie]

In the parable of the marriage of the king’s son (Matt 22:1-14) there are four groups.

1. The Bride (chosen by the king for his son. Someone who has kept themselves spotless and without wrinkle.)

2. Those bidden but who refuse to go (these seem to be those who want the king to be satisfied with their works. They could be termed a prostitute.)

3. Those bidden that show up in a wedding garment (these seem to take the calling of the king seriously and try to ready themselves for the occasion. They are not the bride but are guest at the wedding non-the-less.)

4. Those bidden that showed up without a wedding garment (these seem to be those who want a free ride form the king. Kind of like a harlot.)

I Cor 3:14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

Here we see two groups of saved people. Those with rewards and those without. And Jesus taught the same thing in the parable of the prodigal son. The older son kept the law of the father and had an inheritance while the younger disobeyed the law of the father and suffered lose of his inheritance. Yet he was still a son in the end.

So, yes it appears that our lawless brothers in Christ are saved and will be at the marriage super as guest. But they will not be part of the Bride of Christ as the law abiding Brothers in Christ will be.

[johnd]

Feb 17, 2005 3:01:48 GMT -8 Blake said:

I've been wondering about this chapter... It always made me think that only the Yehudim were required to keep the in full while the Gentiles were bound by the laws of Noah.

Redacted: cherry-picking scriptures to present an anti- bias is a rules violation.

[johnd]

Without a doubt the Gentiles have been very sloppy with the faith. The hostile Roman take over especially. But let us not forget it was in the absence of the Jewish people who were born and bred to lead the faith abdicated that leadership. I am not tearing into anyone, just stating the facts. A desire to live shomer shabbos etc. is admirable so long as we remember...

Ephesians 2:8–10 (NASB95)
8For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;
9not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.
10For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.

Acts 15:10 (NASB95)
10“Now therefore why do you put God to the test by placing upon the neck of the disciples a yoke which neither our fathers nor we have been able to bear?

James 2:10 (NASB95)
10For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles in one point, he has become guilty of all.

And your practices are just that. Practices. Not requirements. For according to Ephesians 2:8-10, THAT would be a false Gospel would it not?

Note: while this is borderline teaching against , I'll leave it for discussion- with the understanding it can be redacted if the discussion takes a further anti- direction. Dan C

[johnd]

I am of a growing number of people in the faith who realize the Gentile version of the Faith is sloppy full of errors and whatnot the LORD has had to bend over backwards to accommodate so long as the core beliefs were correct about Messiah. We seek to return the Faith to its Hebrew roots without adopting the errors of the Hebrews who rejected their own Messiah, or who mistook the Law as a means of salvation (rather than a sign post to salvation namely Messiah).

People even in the Romanized faith have tried this approach to the point of filling monasteries set apart, away from the world. The point of Grace is our undeserved salvation and justification so we are free from sin to get busy spreading the Gospel to the lost by getting out among them. When we lose sight of this the manna gets wormy so to speak.

[alon]

Moderator caution: johnd, your posts here teaching against observance are a violation of the rules. Missionaries have no place here, if this is your intent. Please reread the rules and abide by them.

Dan C

[Elizabeth]

I recently began a study on Galatians.

Based on what little bit I have done, the teacher explained that the idea of works verses grace wasn't even a concept to consider at the time the book of Galatians was wrote. It is a distinction that originated in the church. The issue at hand at the time the book was wrote, according to this lesson that I have found very informative, was sorting out what to do with all the Gentiles and how to bring us in to Israel.  I only started the study and am not familiar with much of the teachings on this site so am reluctant to share information about it. If you are interested I will message Dan with the site so he can evaluate it. If Dan doesn't mind. He can decide whether or not to pass it on. I want to ensure I am passing along good teaching.  

"And when the words of the prophets agree, Just as it is written:

After this I will return and will rebuild the tabernacle of David
which has fallen down; I will rebuild its ruins, and I will set it
up; So that the rest of mankind may seek the Lord, Even all the
Gentiles who are called by My name, says the L-RD who does all these things

Known to G-d from eternity are all His works. Therefore I judge that we should not trouble those from among the Gentiles who are turning to G-d, but that we write them to abstain from things polluted by idols, from sexual immorality, from things strangled, and from blood. For Moses has had throughout many generations those who preach him in every city, being read in the synagogues every Sabbath."
Acts 15; 15-21

The Gentiles are expected to keep the commandments, but James was saying they should have faith that it is G-d who will give them the strength and desire to do so. They had to start somewhere. James was afraid to constrain the Spirit with the burdens of man's expectations. He encouraged people to have faith in G-d that because the Gentiles were filled with the Holy Spirit, they would find their way to keeping . You can see this as he points to the fact that Moses was being taught in Synagogues on the Sabbath and relied on this as a way to teach them.

"Then Jesus spoke to the multitudes and to His disciples, saying "The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses seat. Therefore whatever they tell you to observe, that observe and do, but do not do according to their works, for they say and do not."

Yeshua actually held people to a higher standard of keeping the than the Pharisees. He emphasized intentions from the heart in doing the commandments as opposed to doing away with them. The Spirit he gives us enables us to do so, so I would way we are even more accountable to do so but also have the grace to rely on Him and grow into it.


Psalm 1. (I am not going to type this out, and it is only one example of what I am trying to say. There are many more.)

was not considered a yoke.  It is and was revered as a gift from G-d. The yoke referred to in your reference was pressure for Gentiles to immediately act on what men thought, rather than allowing the Holy Spirit to continue its work in them. It was assumed the Spirit would guide them to and a heartfelt motivation to keep it.

 

[jimmie]

Mar 10, 2015 20:23:03 GMT -8 johnd said:

I am of a growing number of people in the faith who realize the Gentile version of the Faith is sloppy full of errors and whatnot the LORD has had to bend over backwards to accommodate so long as the core beliefs were correct about Messiah. We seek to return the Faith to its Hebrew roots without adopting the errors of the Hebrews who rejected their own Messiah, or who mistook the Law as a means of salvation (rather than a sign post to salvation namely Messiah).

People even in the Romanized faith have tried this approach to the point of filling monasteries set apart, away from the world. The point of Grace is our undeserved salvation and justification so we are free from sin to get busy spreading the Gospel to the lost by getting out among them. When we lose sight of this the manna gets wormy so to speak.

John,

You may want to draw a distention between God' commands and mans commands as you are trying to avoid adopting the errors of the hebrews. As pointed out by the Saviour below it was man's traditions that needed to be done away with not God's commandments.


And honour not his father or his mother, [he shall be free]. Thus have ye made the commandment of God of none effect by your tradition. [Matthew 15:6]

For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do. [Mark 7:8]

Christ was not doing away with God's law only man's traditions.

The Hebrews tended to add to God's law and the Christian tend's to take away from God's law. We are warned that adding or taking away is wrong. So it best thing to do is to take on God's word not what someone says about it.