johnd
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Posts: 31
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Post by johnd on Mar 8, 2015 19:29:44 GMT -8
This is a bit lengthy but it is meant to be read together as a whole.
1 John 1:1–2:17 (NASB95)
1What was from the beginning, what we have heard, what we have seen with our eyes, what we have looked at and touched with our hands, concerning the Word of Life—
2and the life was manifested, and we have seen and testify and proclaim to you the eternal life, which was with the Father and was manifested to us—
3what we have seen and heard we proclaim to you also, so that you too may have fellowship with us; and indeed our fellowship is with the Father, and with His Son Jesus Christ.
4These things we write, so that our joy may be made complete.
5This is the message we have heard from Him and announce to you, that God is Light, and in Him there is no darkness at all.
6If we say that we have fellowship with Him and yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth;
7but if we walk in the Light as He Himself is in the Light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus His Son cleanses us from all sin.
8If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us.
9If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
10If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar and His word is not in us.
1My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous;
2and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world.
3By this we know that we have come to know Him, if we keep His commandments.
4The one who says, “I have come to know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him;
5but whoever keeps His word, in him the love of God has truly been perfected. By this we know that we are in Him:
6the one who says he abides in Him ought himself to walk in the same manner as He walked.
7Beloved, I am not writing a new commandment to you, but an old commandment which you have had from the beginning; the old commandment is the word which you have heard.
8On the other hand, I am writing a new commandment to you, which is true in Him and in you, because the darkness is passing away and the true Light is already shining.
9The one who says he is in the Light and yet hates his brother is in the darkness until now.
10The one who loves his brother abides in the Light and there is no cause for stumbling in him.
11But the one who hates his brother is in the darkness and walks in the darkness, and does not know where he is going because the darkness has blinded his eyes.
12I am writing to you, little children, because your sins have been forgiven you for His name’s sake.
13I am writing to you, fathers, because you know Him who has been from the beginning. I am writing to you, young men, because you have overcome the evil one. I have written to you, children, because you know the Father.
14I have written to you, fathers, because you know Him who has been from the beginning. I have written to you, young men, because you are strong, and the word of God abides in you, and you have overcome the evil one.
15Do not love the world nor the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him.
16For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh and the lust of the eyes and the boastful pride of life, is not from the Father, but is from the world.
17The world is passing away, and also its lusts; but the one who does the will of God lives forever.
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johnd
New Member
Posts: 31
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Post by johnd on Mar 8, 2015 19:35:22 GMT -8
In the previous post is the purpose for salvation. The practice of salvation. How we are saved. But the actual how we get saved is in the previous posts by others who mentioned John 3:16-18, Ephesians 2:8-10, and others.
Rather than universalism as some try to suggest 1 John 2:2 and 1 Timothy 4:10 seem to say, the POTENTIAL for salvation is to every human being since Yeshua our Go'el (kinsman redeemer) died for all sin. But salvation is only realized when we believe in him... and that being the genuine Jesus / Yeshua and not some cult concocted Christ**...
**2 Corinthians 11:3–4 (NASB95)
3But I am afraid that, as the serpent deceived Eve by his craftiness, your minds will be led astray from the simplicity and purity of devotion to Christ.
4For if one comes and preaches another Jesus whom we have not preached, or you receive a different spirit which you have not received, or a different gospel which you have not accepted, you bear this beautifully. <--- rabbinic ironic criticism, btw
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Post by maranguape on Aug 26, 2018 14:28:58 GMT -8
TWO KINDS OF SALVATION -
1. Personal salvation and;
2. Universal salvation.
Only universal salvation is free; personal salvation could be as expensive as the kind of transgression committed against the Law.
Universal salvation is the one promised to Noah through the Noachide Covenant which the Lord established with all Mankind. Soon after the Flood, the Lord promised Noah never to allow another catastrophe the size of the Flood as all living beings, except for Noah's family, had suffered universal destruction. What about if Mankind turned again as evil as at the time of Noah? The Lord had to raise a new people from the loins of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob as the pledge or assurance to His promise of universal salvation for Mankind. Israel had risen. Now, as long as Israel remained as a People before the Lord forever, the earth would remain seed-time and harvest and cold and heat, and summer and winter, and day and night would not cease. In other words, as long as the natural laws functioned properly, Mankind was saved; freely saved. (Genesis. 8:21,22)
Prophet Jeremiah must have read the above text and connected the Lord's pledge with the permanence of Israel as a People before the Lord forever as long as the natural laws functioned properly, thus, Israel would guarantee the Lord's promise of universal salvation of Mankind. (Jeremiah 31:35-37)
Reading the Christian NT the other day, I came about John 4:22 and I was reminded that Jesus must have read both texts above; the one of Genesis and that of Jeremiah and concluded that indeed salvation comes from the Jews. From the Jews, he said, and not from one among the Jews.
Now, for personal salvation, the bill would have to be paid according to the transgression of the Law; the law of cause and effect; some times as expensive as the loss of life itself. This kind of salvation is so serious that, as Jesus himself said, if we come to the Temple to plead for salvation and we are reminded that some one has an issue with us, we must leave all behind and go set things right with our neighbor and only then return to the altar to plead for salvation. (Mat. 5:23,24)
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Post by maranguape on Aug 26, 2018 15:45:43 GMT -8
Romans 10:9-10 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is make unto salvation. Ephesions 2:8-9 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. Revelation 12:11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death. I have recently finished reading the NT and, I find too hard to believe that the texts quoted above are from what Yeshua said but rather the words of Paul. Yeshua was a Jew and a very strictly observant Jew at that, and what he said regarding how one becomes saved is found in Luke 16:29-31. By listening to "Moses" aka the Law. That's from the one parable of his about the Richman and Lazarus. The Richman is claimed to have been in Hell and asked Avraham to send someone to warn his brothers and sisters not to come to the same place of torment. Yeshua, the author of the parable said they should listen to "Moses" aka the Law to achieve salvation. IMHO, this is the Jewish way to teach  and not to believe by faith that God raised Jesus from the dead when the gospel of Jesus aka the Tanach is quite clear that once dead, no one will ever return from the grave. (II Samuel 12:23; Psalm 49:12,20) JPS translation. |
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Post by alon on Aug 26, 2018 19:05:48 GMT -8
TWO KINDS OF SALVATION - 1. Personal salvation and; 2. Universal salvation. Only universal salvation is free; personal salvation could be as expensive as the kind of transgression committed against the Law. Universal salvation is the one promised to Noah through the Noachide Covenant which the Lord established with all Mankind. Soon after the Flood, the Lord promised Noah never to allow another catastrophe the size of the Flood as all living beings, except for Noah's family, had suffered universal destruction. What about if Mankind turned again as evil as at the time of Noah? The Lord had to raise a new people from the loins of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob as the pledge or assurance to His promise of universal salvation for Mankind. Israel had risen. Now, as long as Israel remained as a People before the Lord forever, the earth would remain seed-time and harvest and cold and heat, and summer and winter, and day and night would not cease. In other words, as long as the natural laws functioned properly, Mankind was saved; freely saved. (Genesis. 8:21,22) You mean physically saved, right? Saved because God promised not to wipe us from the face of he earth again?
If you mean universal salvation as all men will be saved in the end, that would be a problem:
Matthew 25:46 And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”
Reading the Christian NT the other day, I came about John 4:22 and I was reminded that Jesus must have read both texts above; the one of Genesis and that of Jeremiah and concluded that indeed salvation comes from the Jews. From the Jews, he said, and not from one among the Jews. Salvation has always been from the Jews. And it is the same today as ever it was. You worship and trust in the One True God. After the establishment of the Hebrews as a nation you joined yourself to them and worshiped El Elohe Yisroel alone. Just as Ruth said to Naomi, " Your people shall be my people, and your God my God." (Ruth 1:16c)Salvation also comes through the Jews because it is through them we received His Anointed One. In Ruth's time they looked forward to this Messiah in faith and trust. We look back to Him in faith, trusting in Him. But we are still joined to Israel. Maybe not in the eyes of Rabbinical Judaism today; but it is not who they say is joined. They are just men. It is who HaShem says is adopted who truely is.
John 1:12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name,
Now, for personal salvation, the bill would have to be paid according to the transgression of the Law; the law of cause and effect; some times as expensive as the loss of life itself. This kind of salvation is so serious that, as Jesus himself said, if we come to the Temple to plead for salvation and we are reminded that some one has an issue with us, we must leave all behind and go set things right with our neighbor and only then return to the altar to plead for salvation. (Mat. 5:23,24) For personal salvation nothing we could ever do would pay that bill. Yes, we must do as we are told, but obedience is only a result of our salvation- an outward sign of an inward heart condition. But the only payment for our bill concerning salvation in spite of our sins was the blood of one who was perfect, Yeshua HaMoshiach.
Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.Personal salvation is a gift, there for the asking. But if you accept Yeshua, you also accept His . Because acceptance means repentance, and sin is disobeying . So if you do not accept , you didn't repent, therefore you did not accept Yeshua, and your salvation is questionable. Acts 17:30 “Therefore having overlooked the times of ignorance, God is now declaring to men that all people everywhere should repent,"
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Post by alon on Aug 26, 2018 19:38:06 GMT -8
Romans 10:9-10 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is make unto salvation. Ephesions 2:8-9 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. Revelation 12:11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death. I have recently finished reading the NT and, I find too hard to believe that the texts quoted above are from what Yeshua said but rather the words of Paul. Ephesians was a Pauline letter written from prison. Revelation was written by John, an account of a vision while he was in exile. Revelation is written in the Jewish apocalyptic tradition and uses much of the imagery and language of other apocalyptic works.Yeshua was a Jew and a very strictly observant Jew at that, So was Paul.and what he said regarding how one becomes saved is found in Luke 16:29-31. That is one of the things Yeshua said concerning salvation. He also said:
Mark 16:16 "He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned,"
By listening to "Moses" aka the Law. That's from the one parable of his about the Richman and Lazarus. The Richman is claimed to have been in Hell and asked Avraham to send someone to warn his brothers and sisters not to come to the same place of torment. Yeshua, the author of the parable said they should listen to "Moses" aka the Law to achieve salvation. IMHO, this is the Jewish way to teach and not to believe by faith that God raised Jesus from the dead when the gospel of Jesus aka the Tanach is quite clear that once dead, no one will ever return from the grave. (II Samuel 12:23; Psalm 49:12,20) JPS translation. I certainly agree about listening to Moses, or . However that was not all the TNK had to say about death and the grave. And the notes in my JPS Study TNK say that the meaning of those verses in Psalms is a comparison to the animals, of which we are no better; both our fates are death and darkness. However there are also messages of hope of the resurrection:Job 14:14, 19:25-26 If a man die, shall he live again? all the days of my appointed time will I wait, till my change come. ... For I know that my redeemer liveth, and that he shall stand at the latter day upon the earth: And though after my skin worms destroy this body, yet in my flesh shall I see God:
Daniel 12:2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to  and everlasting contempt.
Ezekiel 37 (the dry bones) also has a resurrection message. Judaism is a religion of hope. And if death is final, where does that leave our hope? One problem of a doctrine of no hope is that you have no reason to treat others well. The Sadducees, who did not believe in the resurrection were the ones who sold out to the Romans. If this is it, might as well gather all you can and live large while you are here. And if you are complicit in killing thousands of your countrymen, including God's annointed one, well who cares! you are going to just lie down like all beasts in the end and stink. |
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Post by maranguape on Aug 31, 2018 10:26:13 GMT -8
TWO KINDS OF SALVATION - 1. Personal salvation and; 2. Universal salvation. Only universal salvation is free; personal salvation could be as expensive as the kind of transgression committed against the Law. Universal salvation is the one promised to Noah through the Noachide Covenant which the Lord established with all Mankind. Soon after the Flood, the Lord promised Noah never to allow another catastrophe the size of the Flood as all living beings, except for Noah's family, had suffered universal destruction. What about if Mankind turned again as evil as at the time of Noah? The Lord had to raise a new people from the loins of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob as the pledge or assurance to His promise of universal salvation for Mankind. Israel had risen. Now, as long as Israel remained as a People before the Lord forever, the earth would remain seed-time and harvest and cold and heat, and summer and winter, and day and night would not cease. In other words, as long as the natural laws functioned properly, Mankind was saved; freely saved. (Genesis. 8:21,22) Matthew 25:46 And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”Maranguape: Yes, that's what I mean but as a people, not individually. And the Divine promise is based on the existence of Israel on earth. Now, eternal punishment or eternal life is a NT doctrine, not found in the Tanach. Only Jehovah is eternal; the only thing eternal about man is Sheol aka the grave. (II Samuel 12:23; Psalm 49:12,20) JPS translation. Reading the Christian NT the other day, I came about John 4:22 and I was reminded that Jesus must have read both texts above; the one of Genesis and that of Jeremiah and concluded that indeed salvation comes from the Jews. From the Jews, he said, and not from one among the Jews. " Your people shall be my people, and your God my God." (Ruth 1:16c) Salvation also comes through the Jews because it is through them we received His Anointed One. In Ruth's time they looked forward to this Messiah in faith and trust. We look back to Him in faith, trusting in Him. But we are still joined to Israel. Maybe not in the eyes of Rabbinical Judaism today; but it is not who they say is joined. They are just men. It is who HaShem says is adopted who truely is.[/quote] Maranguape: The Anointed One aka the Messiah, cannot be an individual; the individual is born, lives his span of life and dies. Are we supposed to expect a new Messiah in every generation? Obviously not! The Messiah is not supposed to die but to remain as a People before the Lord forever. (Jeremiah 31:35-37) And still regarding the Anointed One, if you read Habakkuk 3:13, "The Lord goes forth to save His People, to save His Anointed One." That's what Messiah is, the Anointed One of the Lord aka Israel if you read Exodus 4:22,23. [/font] John 1:12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name,
Maranguape: Now, for personal salvation, the bill would have to be paid according to the transgression of the Law; the law of cause and effect; some times as expensive as the loss of life itself. This kind of salvation is so serious that, as Jesus himself said, if we come to the Temple to plead for salvation and we are reminded that some one has an issue with us, we must leave all behind and go set things right with our neighbor and only then return to the altar to plead for salvation. (Mat. 5:23,24)
Maranguape: That's not what Jesus said in Luke 16:29-31. Regarding personal salvation, Jesus made it very clear that we must listen to "Moses" aka the Law. Of course, perfection is not required of man as a must. "There has never been a man upon earth to do only good and never sinned." (Ecclesiastes 7:20) Hence, when we need to set things right with HaShem, so that our sins from scarlet red become as white as snow, we must repent, and return to the obedience of God's Law. (Isaiah 1:18,19) Regarding the blood for salvation, Jesus would not contradict God's Word through Prophet Ezekiel 18:4,20 that no one is allowed to shed his blood for the salvation of another. Only the one who sins shall die.
For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.Personal salvation as a gift is there for the asking. But if you accept Yeshua, you also accept His . Because acceptance means repentance, and sin is disobeying. So if you do not accept , you didn't repent, therefore you did not accept Yeshua, and your salvation is questionable. Acts 17:30 “Therefore having overlooked the times of ignorance, God is now declaring to men that all people everywhere should repent,"[/quote] Maranguape: No Alon, death is not the wages of sin but of having been born because, a babe does not sin and dies all the same without having ever committed a sin. Salvation is not a gift as we must work for it. Now, eternal life is neither free nor can be bought. Only HaShem is eternal. The only thing eternal about man is Sheol aka the grave. (II Samuel 12:23; Psalm 49:12,20) JPS translation. And for accepting Yeshua, it depends on how: Either according to nature or to Christian preconceived notions. |
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Post by alon on Aug 31, 2018 10:51:25 GMT -8
Ezekiel 18:4 (ESV) Behold, all souls are mine; the soul of the father as well as the soul of the son is mine: the soul who sins shall die.
There is the physical death, but there is also a second death, one that occurs at judgement. What you speak of is physical death. But the death of a baby who never sinned is not proof there is no second death. And far from being a "Christian preconceived notion," it is clearly spoken of in the TNK.
As to having to work for your salvation:
Ephesians 2:8-9 (ESV) For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast.
Nothing you can do will earn your salvation. The works (the ones that count) come afterward, as they are an outward sign of an inward transformation.
Dan C
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Post by maranguape on Sept 5, 2018 17:20:07 GMT -8
Amen brother, Can we truly believe, and not bear fruit for him? I don't believe that we can. If we are His body then we are to follow the commands of the head, and do His will. I believe if you know Him you will grow a desire to do his will, and if you do His will you will bear fruit. Matthew 3:10 The axe is already laid at the root of the trees; therefore every tree that does not bear fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. According to James 2:26, faith without the works of the Law is akin to a body without the breath of life, in a word, dead! Hence Jesus in his parable of the Rich man and Lazarus said, we must listen to "Moses" aka the Law. (Luke 16:29-31) That was Jesus' reminding us of before he passed away. |
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Post by alon on Sept 5, 2018 17:51:43 GMT -8
According to James 2:26, faith without the works of the Law is akin to a body without the breath of life, in a word, dead! Hence Jesus in his parable of the Rich man and Lazarus said, we must listen to "Moses" aka the Law. (Luke 16:29-31) That was Jesus' reminding us of before he passed away. Faith comes first, then the works we do according to God's instructions (Moses/ ) not only are an outward sign that we want to please Him, but they help us draw near to Him and trust Him more! Without works, trust and faith fade, no relationship is formed, and the love we felt grows cold. And spiritually we die; metaphorically here, then the physical death appointed to all men, and then at judgement. So James (actually Ya'akov) was right, faith without works IS dead! Good point. Dan C |
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Post by maranguape on Sept 5, 2018 17:51:52 GMT -8
Ezekiel 18:4 (ESV) Behold, all souls are mine; the soul of the father as well as the soul of the son is mine: the soul who sins shall die.
There is the physical death, but there is also a second death, one that occurs at judgement. What you speak of is physical death. But the death of a baby who never sinned is not proof there is no second death. And far from being a "Christian preconceived notion," it is clearly spoken of in the TNK. As to having to work for your salvation: Ephesians 2:8-9 (ESV) For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast.
Nothing you can do will earn your salvation. The works (the ones that count) come afterward, as they are an outward sign of an inward transformation. Dan C Ezekiel 18:4 - What HaShem is saying is that every one is Mine; the father as well as the son. The one who sins shall die. Since there has never been a man upon earth to have done only good and never sinned, the obviousness is that every one must die without exception. (Ecclesiastes 7:20) The second death does not make sense to me. Okay Alon, would you please show me the evidence of a second death in the TNK? If it is clearly spoken of in the TNK, it won't be too hard to provide me with the quote. |
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Post by alon on Sept 5, 2018 18:18:51 GMT -8
Daniel 12:2-3 (ESV) And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to and everlasting contempt. And those who are wise shall shine like the brightness of the sky above; and those who turn many to righteousness, like the stars forever and ever.Isaiah 26:19 (ESV) Your dead shall live; their bodies shall rise. You who dwell in the dust, awake and sing for joy!For your dew is a dew of light, and the earth will give birth to the dead.Job 19:25-27 (ESV) For I know that my Redeemer lives, and at the last he will stand upon the earth. And after my skin has been thus destroyed, yet in my flesh I shall see God, whom I shall see for myself, and my eyes shall behold, and not another. My heart faints within me!Isaiah 66:24 (ESV) “And they shall go out and look on the dead bodies of the men who have rebelled against me. For their worm shall not die, their fire shall not be quenched, and they shall be an abhorrence to all flesh.”Isaiah 24-27 is almost an apocalyptic text, where he sees the renewal of the entire universe.
Isaiah 25:7-8 (ESV) And he will swallow up on this mountain the covering that is cast over all peoples, the veil that is spread over all nations. He will swallow up death forever;and the Lord God will wipe away tears from all faces, and the reproach of his people he will take away from all the earth, for the Lord has spoken.And there are several less explicit texts that hint at a resurrection:
Hosea 13:14 (ESV)
I shall ransom them from the power of Sheol;
I shall redeem them from Death.
O Death, where are your plagues?
O Sheol, where is your sting?
Compassion is hidden from my eyes.
Hosea 6:1-3 (ESV)
“Come, let us return to the Lord;
for he has torn us, that he may heal us;
he has struck us down, and he will bind us up.
After two days he will revive us;
on the third day he will raise us up,
that we may live before him.
Let us know; let us press on to know the Lord;
his going out is sure as the dawn;
he will come to us as the showers,
as the spring rains that water the earth.”
And both Elijah and Elisha resurrected persons dead for 2 days (only Messiah could resurrect after 2 days). Dan (happy to oblige) C
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Post by alon on Sept 5, 2018 18:25:10 GMT -8
Ezekiel 18:4 (ESV) Behold, all souls are mine; the soul of the father as well as the soul of the son is mine: the soul who sins shall die.
There is the physical death, but there is also a second death, one that occurs at judgement. What you speak of is physical death. But the death of a baby who never sinned is not proof there is no second death. And far from being a "Christian preconceived notion," it is clearly spoken of in the TNK. As to having to work for your salvation: Ephesians 2:8-9 (ESV) For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast.
Nothing you can do will earn your salvation. The works (the ones that count) come afterward, as they are an outward sign of an inward transformation. Dan C Ezekiel 18:4 - What HaShem is saying is that every one is Mine; the father as well as the son. The one who sins shall die. Since there has never been a man upon earth to have done only good and never sinned, the obviousness is that every one must die without exception. (Ecclesiastes 7:20) The second death does not make sense to me. Okay Alon, would you please show me the evidence of a second death in the TNK? If it is clearly spoken of in the TNK, it won't be too hard to provide me with the quote. The prophet here speaks specifically of the soul; and even more specifically of the soul that sins. However there was grace in the TNK as well as the NT. For those who repent, there is forgiveness. And when God forgives, it is as though it never happened. So only the soul that sins and did not repent would die: Psalm 32:1 (ESV) Blessed is the one whose transgression is forgiven, whose sin is covered.
Dan C |
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Post by jimmie on Sept 6, 2018 9:41:50 GMT -8
If I may add to alon’s response, let’s look at the beginning. In Genesis 2:17 God tells Adam, “for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.” In Genesis 3 the serpent told Eve, “Ye shall not surely die.” From Genesis 5:4, we see that it was over 800 years between Adam eating of the fruit and him dying. Clearly this is showing two types of death or that God is a liar. Scriptures states that “God cannot lie” therefore there are two types of death taught from the very beginning of scripture/TNK.
Genesis 25:8 Then Abraham gave up the ghost, and died in a good old age, an old man and full of years: and was gathered to his people. 9 And his sons Isaac and Ishmael buried him…
Notice that Abraham both “gave up the ghost” and “died”, and also was “gathered to his people” and “buried”. Thus the scripture/TNK is speaking again to two types of death. Also see the below.
Gen 25:17 And these [are] the years of the life of Ishmael, an hundred and thirty and seven years: and he gave up the ghost and died; and was gathered unto his people.
Gen 35:29 And Isaac gave up the ghost, and died, and was gathered unto his people, [being] old and full of days: and his sons Esau and Jacob buried him.
Gen 49:33 And when Jacob had made an end of commanding his sons, he gathered up his feet into the bed, and yielded up the ghost, and was gathered unto his people.
Num 20:24 Aaron shall be gathered unto his people: for he shall not enter into the land which I have given unto the children of Israel, because ye rebelled against my word at the water of Meribah.
Num 20:26 And strip Aaron of his garments, and put them upon Eleazar his son: and Aaron shall be gathered [unto his people], and shall die there.
Deu 32:50 And die in the mount whither thou goest up, and be gathered unto thy people; as Aaron thy brother died in mount Hor, and was gathered unto his people:
It appears to me that the TNK teaches that upon death the spirit/breath of life/divine spark returns to God and the body is buried. A modern day analogy would be the computer. The key board and monitor is likened to the human body. The programing is likened to the spirit. When the computer dies, the programing can be loaded into a new computer. So the spirit of the elect will be loaded into glorified bodies.
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Post by maranguape on Sept 10, 2018 11:30:29 GMT -8
Romans 10:9-10 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is make unto salvation. Ephesions 2:8-9 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. Revelation 12:11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death. And Maranguape said: What Todah Yeshua said above is not true as it contradicts what Jesus himself said in his parable of the Rich man and Lazarus. He said that we must listen to "Moses" aka the Law. (Luke 16:29-31) It means that one becomes saved only through the obedience of the Law. And that goes not only according to God's Law but also the laws of all nations. |
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and not to believe by faith that God
and everlasting contempt.
