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Post by Todah Yeshua on Mar 11, 2004 20:29:22 GMT -8
Romans 10:9-10
That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is make unto salvation.
Ephesions 2:8-9
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Revelation 12:11
And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.
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Post by el Gusano on Mar 11, 2004 22:59:24 GMT -8
Salvation and salvational security is probably one of the most divisive subjects in Christianity today. However, when examined closely, it is spelled out clearly in Scriptures. Turn to Acts 16:30-31: “And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.” This is the only place in the Bible in which saved is both in the question and in the answer. Let’s look at this passage a little closer.
“Believe”, in Acts 16:31, is the Greek word, “pisteuo” and is aorist, active, imperative. What does this mean? It means that it is a punctiliar action that is commanded, not requested, to be performed by the person to whom it is addressed and the act cannot be reversed. The word “believe” in this passage is very interesting in that its grammar makes a very pointed fact about how to be saved. “Shall be saved” is in the future, passive, indicative, which indicates it is simply a statement of fact. Salvation is an event. When you trust Jesus the Christ, you are born into the family, and you become his child.
This action cannot be reversed. Anyone born into a family, regardless of what he does, is still part of that family.
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Post by R' Y'hoshua Moshe on Mar 11, 2004 23:12:19 GMT -8
Welcome El Gusano! ;D
You stated...
This is interesting discussion that I think deserves it's own thread. In regards to "Once saved always saved" could you start a new thread dedicated to the subject? I think it will be a stimulating conversation. But, for this thread, let's try to keep it dedicated to the subject of how one is to be saved.
Shalom,
Reuel
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Post by Todah Yeshua on Mar 11, 2004 23:26:52 GMT -8
el Gusano, thank you for sharing those scriptures. They were very powerful, and they blessed me. Thank you.
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Post by Abramben on Mar 13, 2004 16:00:57 GMT -8
Romans 10:9-10 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is make unto salvation. Ephesions 2:8-9 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. Revelation 12:11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death. TYJ Thank you for those statments of faith. Now show us what a person is to do upon belief in Messiah from examples of the early believers. In other words show us from the book of acts, what people did upon belief in messiah. Do you think you should add repentance to your first post? Luke 13:3 I tell you, no; but unless you repent you will all likewise perish. Abramben |
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Post by Abramben on Mar 13, 2004 16:12:19 GMT -8
Romans 10:9-10 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is make unto salvation. Ephesions 2:8-9 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. Revelation 12:11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death. Please allow me to add repentance, strive to enter the kingdom, and do the will of the Father and do not be a law breaker. Luke 13:3 I tell you, no; but unless you repent you will all likewise perish. Matt 7:21-23 "Not everyone who says to Me, 'Master, Master,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. Many will say to Me in that day, 'Master, Master, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?' "And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!' Luke 13:24 Strive to enter through the narrow gate, for many, I say to you, will seek to enter and will not be able. Matt 22:14 "For many are called, but few are chosen." Thank you! |
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Post by Todah Yeshua on Mar 13, 2004 18:10:19 GMT -8
Abramben, I couldn't agree with you more. Thank you for sharing. First of all, I just want to say that I am a Gentile, and that I don't speak Hebrew or read it. I spend time on this board because I met Reuel and enjoy his fellowship, and I have learned a lot from him. I was saved less than 2 yrs ago and before that, I didn't own a Bible. I try to read the word every day and God blesses me with understanding every day. He delivered me from a life of sin, including drugs and alcohol that had lasted well over 20 yrs. He showed himself to me in a way that was undeniable. I guess what I am trying to say is, there is a lot I don't know, but He is showing me more and more every day. What he shows me the most of is love and understanding. My relationship with my Father in heaven is very real and very intimate. I thank Him very often for drawing me into a relationship with His son, I know without Him that I would still be lost and unable to break the chains of drug addiction, and living a very wordly life. Only God's grace could have delivered me from where I was. So, maybe I can't point out every scripture on salvation, but if you could put your ear on my chest my heart could tell you every meaning of the word. I praise my Father and I thank Him for the mercy, forgiveness and love that he has shown me. Speaking of repentance, I have given my life to Him and have been drug free for 17months. There was a time in my life when I never thought that was possible. But if there is one thing I've learned, all things are possible when my Fathers hand is in it.
I want to thank Reuel for all of his help and kind fellowship, he has been a wonderful brother in Christ Jesus. Thank you all for your help. I learn a lot from the fellowship on this board. I will close by saying, praise God and may He bless you all.
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Post by R' Y'hoshua Moshe on Mar 14, 2004 17:01:46 GMT -8
Welcome Abramben!  Chuck (TYJ), I love your attitude!  You are seeking the truth, and at the same time you are loving, and gentle. The scriptures say that you shall know them by their fruits. Turning from a life of sin is true "Teshuva" (repentance). And, things such as your testimony are the first fruits of this. -All of us- in Yeshua HaMashiach have much to improve upon as YHVH's Ruach HaKodesh (Holy Spirit) continues to sancitify us. But, Abramben is right (and I know you are in agreement) that repentance in regards to breaking our Heavenly Father's commandments, and turning from this sin is the first step to salvation. Adonai knows whom are His, and He gives His Ruach HaKodesh to those whom have repented, and believed the Gospel of The Kingdom so that they may walk in righteousness before Him (Ezekiel 36:27). This is true grace...the grace that provides us the power to master over sin. Shalom, Reuel |
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Post by Abramben on Mar 15, 2004 0:31:04 GMT -8
TYJ
Thanks for sharing!
Stay in the word!
Shalom
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Post by Todah Yeshua on Mar 15, 2004 13:01:18 GMT -8
Abramben, First of all I just want to thank you for bringing my post to my attention. You were %100 correct, and you showed me by using the word of God. I know that there is no Salvation without repentance, but the fact remains that I didn't show scripture to back up what I was saying. We know that the only truth comes from the word of God, and if we expect men to know the truth then we must use the truth in our teaching. I may know it in my heart, but if I don't share it by using God's word then how are men to know God's truth. I believe that we must not use half truths for our teaching, because half truths are lies. We must use the full word of God, because half truths leed to confusion, and our God is not a God of confusion. So again, I just want to thank you for helping make me a better student of God's word. Peace be with you Your brother in Christ Chuck |
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Yochanah
Junior Member
Yochanah...Yah Enables
Posts: 99
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Post by Yochanah on Mar 24, 2004 23:05:22 GMT -8
Shalom
I was blessed by your testimony Chuck. And my brothers I want to say that this has been a truly Spirit lead group.
I would just like to add some texts that help support what has been said here;
John 3:36
He who believes in the Son possesses everlasting life: But he who does not obey the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of Elohim remains on him.
The meaning of the wrath of Elohim is found in Romans 1:18-24: Elohim will give them up...
We are declared right through belief in the Son, but the final proof of our BELIEF is whether we subsequently obey Him or not.
James 2:19-24
You believe that Elohim is one. You do well: the demons also believe - and shudder! But do you wish to know know, O foolish man, that the belief without the works is dead? Was not Abraham our father declared right by works when he offered Isaac his son on the alter? Do you see that the belief was working with his works, and by the works the belief was perfected? And the Scripture was fulfilled which says, 'Abraham believed Elohim, and it was reckoned to him for righteousness.' And he was called, 'Elohim's friend.' You see, then, that a man is declared right by works, and not by belief alone.
May He continue to bless the members of this forum with His grace,
Yochanah
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Post by R' Y'hoshua Moshe on Mar 25, 2004 13:36:52 GMT -8
Amen Yochanah,
Many want a saviour, but not a Lord.
Shalom,
Reuel
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Post by LovingNeighbor on Jun 25, 2004 22:15:56 GMT -8
SHalom all, Ok the question is how does one become saved, and my question is if it is a choice will that choice bear fruit? What I mean is everybody likes to qoute the lest any man boast verse to downplay works although it isn't really backed up by the Father, Yahushuah, or the  . but that's another topic, anyway hear is how I see it. People confuse choice and works. Salvation is a choice, and one shouldn't boast any time. Works are the fruit of a choice. So this may be why he said that the honor me with their lips but their heart is far from me. They said they never really made the choice because choosing salvation ( ie. Choose good not evil) will produce fruit ( works of righteousness) but if one says they made that choice but has no fruit this tells you they really never made that choice. You'll know them by their fruits. Salvation isn't by works it's by choice, and when you have really made that choice (the seed(word) being planted in your heart) it will bear fruit, and good fruit at that ( righteous works). But don't be fooled by theologies that teach against works. There is a fine line between saying salvation is not of works and saying there is no connection between works and salvation. One who has made the choice of keeping the 1st and greatest commandment is choosing salvation. But we make that choice by obeying and that is a choice. but this understanding is very tight in understanding salvation. One must choose life and not death(and that is what the whole book and all our lives are about... the choices we make) it's a training. This is why he says don't be fooled there will be no adulterers, whoremongers, and such in the kingdom, because they didn't choose life or they would have the fruits, this is also why he says a good tree cannot bear bad fruit and bad tree can't bear good fruit, they choices we make bear fruit that are witness to our choice we can't hide it. Oh, but the better question is if we are to be disciples of Yahushuah, why is christianity's focus on our own salvation instead of learning. We just want to pass the test but we don't care about learning the subject. Hmm... The old what's in it for me. I don't believe that is what his original disciples were focussed on. are we believers or Disciples. and what is the difference? Shalom |
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Post by Todah Yeshua on Jun 26, 2004 8:42:55 GMT -8
Amen brother,
Can we truly believe, and not bear fruit for him? I don't believe that we can. If we are His body then we are to follow the commands of the head, and do His will. I believe if you know Him you will grow a desire to do his will, and if you do His will you will bear fruit.
Matthew 3:10 The axe is already laid at the root of the trees; therefore every tree that does not bear fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.
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Yochanah
Junior Member
Yochanah...Yah Enables
Posts: 99
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Post by Yochanah on Jun 27, 2004 15:43:24 GMT -8
Praise His sacred name for making known to His children the truths for this time. He said in Hosea 4:6 that His people perish for lack of knowledge. Where does knowledge come from? His law (teachings - ) is a revelation of His very own character which is wisdom, knowledge and understanding that He, in He awesome love, wants to give to His children. To know Him is to know His character. Understanding His character is by learning His laws. When we study them we see how right they are and following them becomes second nature to us...i.e. He has put them in our hearts. "He that saith, I know Him, and keepeth not His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him." 1 John 2:4 Yes, SALVATION IS A CHOICE and, "He who believes in the Son possesses everlasting life, but (and this is the part most Christians overlook) he who does not obey the Son shall not see life..." John 3:36. "For as the body without the Spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also." James 2:26 "If ye love me, keep my commandments." John 14:15 He makes it simple. So simple a child can understand. Through the centuries mankind has muddied the waters and made His Word seem complicated because of all the theories and doctrines devised from their own imaginings. But Acts 3:21 promises that all divine matters will be restored before He comes. How awesome it is that we are among those blest to watch this prophecy unfold. HalleluYah! |
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. but that's another topic, anyway hear is how I see it. People confuse choice and works. Salvation is a choice, and one shouldn't boast any time. Works are the fruit of a choice. So this may be why he said that the honor me with their lips but their heart is far from me. They said they never really made the choice because choosing salvation ( ie. Choose good not evil) will produce fruit ( works of righteousness) but if one says they made that choice but has no fruit this tells you they really never made that choice. You'll know them by their fruits.
