Not raised Jewish

[verrid]

If one has a mother that is Jewish and a catholic father without being raised as either or,is it possible to declare myself as a messianic Jew.I was raised secularly and not brought up with jewish customs or ways of life. I feel awkward calling myself a messianic jew.
It seems easier to say ethnic christian.

[R' Y'hoshua Moshe]

In Rabbinic Judaism Jewishness is determined by the mother. Although, in Orthodox Rabbinic Judaism there are many standards to be considered "Jewish" (keep in mind these are men's standards). I wouldn't be so concerned about calling yourself a Messianic Jew. At any rate, through Yeshua The Messiah you have become part of the people of Israel like Ruth. So, the question would be, Is Ruth considered Jewish? And, if so, there is your answer. I too have Jewish roots on my mother's side. Her last name is Schuster. But, I was not raised in a Jewish home and in the eyes in Rabbinic Judaism I would certainly not be considered Jewish. I consider myself a observant believer in Yeshua The Messiah whom is a member of the commonwealth of Israel (Just like Ruth). So, whether we are considered Jewish or not, if we keep G-d's commandments we will have a better name than native born son's and daughters of Yisrael (Isaiah 56:5).

I hope this helps,

Reuel

[Chizuk Emunah]

Well, if one has a Jewish parent (Mother or Father according to Conservative and Reform Judaism), then one is still Jewish regardless of whether they are observant or not.
In other words, if you were born jewish, but not raised jewish, you are still jewish, because it runs in your blood and nothing can change that. I would merely encourage you to continue to study and become more observant with each step you take.

My background is similiar to yours. I was born Jewish (my mother's side), raised Christian, and started becoming observant about 8yrs ago when my mother finally told me she was jewish. I now live a -observant lifestyle and if anyone asks I simply say that I'm jewish.

[R' Y'hoshua Moshe]

You are correct in regards to reform and conservative Judaism. But, they cannot really be described as observant as they are a very liberal movement in Judaism and by no means are considered the official view of Judaism. A large majority of them don't even eat kosher

The following is how the chief rabbinate of Israel views whom is a Jew in regards to whom is able to make Aliyah to Israel...

"The State of Israel has a "Law Of Return" which allows all Jews to "return home" to Israel and become citizens. This law defines "Jew" as "a person born to a Jewish mother or converted to Judaism.

A good resource to read more on this subject is ""Modern Responsa and Opinions" which presents views of more than 40 Jewish leaders reflecting the full spectrum of Jewish life from religous to secular on the subject of "who is a Jew"."

All I am is saying is how the Rabbinic authority in Israel views it. I would say that this is the authoritative view in Rabbinic Judaism as they currently are the ones whom open and shut the doors in Israel (the center of Judaism) in regards to those whom claim to be Jews.

Shalom chaverim,

Reuel

[Chizuk Emunah]

Well, you are definitely right with regard to the Law Of Return. Fortunately, there have been recent strides to change that. Last I heard, Conservative and Reform Rabbis were pushing for Israel to accept anyone as jewish that they accept.

I know most Reform Jews don't keep kosher, but I believe that most Conservative ones are observant, only they are more lax with halacha than the Orthodox.

[The 614th Mitzvot]

I feel that observance does not make one jewish, but it makes us in the covenant. The difference is simply one of family; it's sort of like being the child of the pastor, you get it easier, but it doesn't change who you are. You are still in the glory and benefits of Yohshuah HaMoshiach.

[R' Y'hoshua Moshe]

I feel that observance does not make one jewish, but it makes us in the covenant.

I tend to agree with you on this. But, here is an interesting question that one may ask...Do you consider Ruth (book of Ruth) to be Jewish? And if so, than she entered into the covenant just as any Gentile would enter into the covenant. This is an interesting question because even in Rabbinic Judaism one whom undergoes conversion is considered Jewish thereafter. Why is it different for those whom join the covenant of YHVH through Mashiach?

Any thoughts?

Shalom,

Reuel

[Chizuk Emunah]

Shalom Reuel.

I don't think you would find any Rabbi today who would question Ruth's jewishness. It is through her line afterall, that King David, and ultimately Moshiach is descended.

You asked why it is different for anyone who inherits the covenant of HaShem through Moshiach, well in my opinion it's not any different. Ruth never underwent a formal conversion, but instead made a conscious decision to follow the one true G-d.

So then, if you are a goy and have emunah (trusting faithfulness) in the of HaShem and Moshiach, then you are no longer a goy, but have joined the community of Yisrael and for all intents and purposes, have become a Jew.

[R' Y'hoshua Moshe]

Good points. Any other thoughts?

[Chizuk Emunah]

Hmm.... None that I can think of.

[Digitaria]

Dear Reuel,

It seems through history there has always been individuals who stand before the true G-d of Heaven and Earth.

When Adam and Eve were created they were spiritual children attached to G-ds protection through faith, after there disobedience there was others who could prove themselves worthy and righteous before G-d.

In the face of Noah we see faith which equates to Jewishness as we are talking of here. He received commandment and was a major contributor to covenant making with the true G-d.

Even Noah abstained from blood and offered clean beasts up to G-d, this came about long before the Mosiac covenant, you know the whole kosher thing.

Later we have another faithful person in Abraham and Sarah who also become covenant makers and caused promise to fall upon the people. There obedience was counted to him as faithful but first came faith then the faithful act of migration. The covenant of circumcision was a sign of faith shown in the flesh. So faithfulness in this case was first faith and then deed, at this time there was no Jewish people or Israelites because they had not yet become a nation before G-d.

Again we have Moses who was also a covenant maker having first faith and this being accounted to him as righteousness for his deed.

Then Ruth who also made a covenant or declaration and she too became a covenat maker when you married, in which time her declaration may have been recorded in ketubot of that time, she made a vow and possibly even presented a vow offering at the tent of wittness sealing the vow to follow the true God in blood.

These days those born to a proven Jewish mother are accounted as Jewish although the children may or may not be observant or faithful, if they are boys and are not circumcised they have not yet become observant and laid hold of the promises resulting from the Abrahams covenant with G-d. If they are covenanters and observant abstaining from blood and keeping kosher they have laid hold of the Mosiac covenant. However although by blood they may be Jewish if they are not faithful they are not Jews at all but ancestral covenant breakers, disregarding the covenants which there forefathers spilt blood for and died for.

When the holy spirit was apportioned out to the gentiles it was scorned upon at first that salvation may have come to the nations as well as the Jews, this however was a sign that they too could be accepted into the existing covenant by being baptised for the forgiveness of sins and laying hold of the covenant of promise which Abraham covenanted and becoming fully fledged covenanters in-heriting both land and promise, converting and becoming Mosiac covenanters. First came faith then deed.

So the bemused native of the land would have this spiritual experience and been transformed, his or her heart being changed within them. Through faith in the thing heard or seen he would prove this in deed by laying hold of the promises.

I myself had a spiritual experience and due to this experience through faith I have laid hold of these covenants, although my proof of this before men requires that I convert or become a proselyte of modern orthadoxy, this will entitle me to the right of return to Israel under the appropriate legislation.

Likewise when you become a citizen of the U.S.A you make an oath and you make a covenant and lay hold of all the rights one would expect as a citizen of that county.

I however am from the U.K and am not required to make any such covenant to Queen and County.
Faith is nothing without deed, although I feel my soul is progressing with G-d and my faith is growing, I am still classified as of the Nations with mankind. I myself have fear and reverance for the G-d of Heaven and Earth more than that of corrupt mankind. I ask him to be my judge, as to faithfullness even if his judgement is that I fulfull current law in place at my time of enquiry; to show willing to take the prescribed route of entry. Which in the days of old may have been marriage, or with an oath or with cuts in my flesh. Today that has changed sadly and the so called men of learning and lights to the nations are stopping up the gates of Heaven by preventing others as well as themselves from going in, relying solely on Law without faith.

It's been nice speaking to you all.

Love Lisa

[R' Y'hoshua Moshe]

However although by blood they may be Jewish if they are not faithful they are not Jews at all but ancestral covenant breakers, disregarding the covenants which there forefathers spilt blood for and died for.

Yes, I agree.

First came faith then deed.

Amein.

Faith is nothing without deed, although I feel my soul is progressing with G-d and my faith is growing, I am still classified as of the Nations with mankind.

Those whom are faithful and obedient will have a better name than native born Israelites (Yesh./Isa.56:5).

Today that has changed sadly and the so called men of learning and lights to the nations are stopping up the gates of Heaven by preventing others as well as themselves from going in, relying solely on Law without faith.

This is using unlawfully (1Tim.1:8) as the is spiritual (Rom.7:14) and it cannot be separated from emunah/faith (James 2:17) . The letter (word) must be mixed with faith (Heb.4:2).

Shalom sister,

Reuel

[Seeker2]

The newness of this had hardly sunk in before the question of "Will I be jewish then?" popped into my head. Although evidence exsists on both sides of the family supporting the idea of sephardic jewish ancestry, so what? I didn't come to this seeking to be jewish being raised to believe that we are all isreal who are heirs according to Abraham's faith. But then what will I call myself if I am not a christian??? I am still not sure, but I know this....
When I married my husband we became one and I became part of his family. I celebrate the same family milestones as everyone else in the family...same birthdays, anniversies, graduations, weddings, and also experience the same grief over our (now) mutual losses. I have born several children to the family name which can be considered "fruit" for the next generation. I am no less a member of the family than my mother-in-law, or my husband's grandmother who also "joined" thru marriage. It would not be said by "blood" "smiths" that we were not really members of the family either since it quickly becomes obvious that NONE of the mothers would then be "smiths" which would mean that THEY arent really "smiths" either! I think that what I am trying to say is that family isn't only about blood but about kinship as well.....
As far as being jewish is concerned....if we celebrate the same events, rejoice and mourn as a family, hold the same family traditions, hold family loyalty at heart, and strive for family unity,arent we also family?? Was Yeshua not jewish because he wasnt 100% blood related (Ruth, Rahab)?And arent we Messianics "married into the family"throughYeshua? When someone asks me what church I attend and I tell them Messianic Jewish, the next question will be "Are you jewish?" I guess I could say that I married into the family.....or I could just say "yes." I think both would be true, what do Y'all think?

[Yitzchak]

This is where the incredible understanding of the principle of commonwealth comes in.

In Genesis HaShem promises to make Jacob a "nation, and a Kahal Goyim" (commonwealth of nations).

It was G-d's plan from the beginning to set the Jewish people apart, and to reconcile the world through this people.

This is the concept further spoken of by Shaul (Paul) in Ephesians 2, where he describes those who were aliens and foriegners, now becoming citizens of the commonwealth through the blood of Messiah.

In Romans 11 it speaks of those who were not natural to the tree being grafted in. All of these concepts throughout allow for the Gentile nations to become part of the commonwealth of Israel, obtaining all the rights and blessings of the natural citizens.

Welcome to the family.

L'Shana Tovah,

Yitzchak

[Seeker2]

Well, Thank You! It's still amazing to me how at "home" I feel in this olive tree ( and I have climbed several trees to find a nest!)....you know, when I found the messanic message on the internet I was looking at finding orthodox jewish sites as I had the inclination inside to believe that I could understand Yeshua and His teachings better if I understood the context of them. I have been studing not only my own christian beliefs but those of many others for a very long time and I was begining to think that "always learning but never coming to the knowlege of the truth" may apply to me! Things just never seemed right....something (which I couldnt totally define) was amiss! But I kept going...what chioce did I have?
Something has occured to me in the last few days that I think is relevant to many others here too.....As I have stated I have always held a deep love and concern for the jewish people and the homeland of Isreal. Never understood it....Never even Knew any jews (other than my brother-in-law who has just lately admitted having a jewish father. Go figure!). I certainly don't agree with many of their political and religous views.They arent popular or well liked among my peers. Why would I care about them either?(I have started many prayers with "Im not sure why I care L-d, but please help the jews!...). But you all remember when Yeshua asked Peter whom he said He was and Peter answered "You are the Christ, the son of the living G-d? and then Yeshua told them that flesh and blood had not revealed this to him but the Father? (not exact quote!)That's what I think happened here. I didn't get here because I'm smart or study alot (many study more than I and keep going in the same circles!) I didn't figure it out at all.....it just fit (like when I met my husband....I just KNEW). I care because I can see something other than political views, I see G-d's hand. And this "new" doctrine (for me!) wasnt NEW! Deep down I already knew it, I just needed to see that I did( it was an Ah-hah! moment!). I agree with the moderators on almost every point although my church taught something else...I had reached many of the same conclusions on my own somehow. I have held many of these "strange" beliefs for many years! (Ask my husband how I dispise and try to get out of Christmas every year! He will tell you about my dislike for Christmas trees with eyes rolling! Not to mention Halloween! YUCK.) Anyway, the point is, we who are here did not get here on our own....we were grafted in. And it is really shocking after all, isn't it?