Do I observe Sabbath or not?

[mystic]

Yes, that's a lot of reading which I will do a little each day and make notes.

[mystic]

Sept 1, 2016 7:23:15 GMT -8 alon said:

Sept 1, 2016 4:19:28 GMT -8 mystic said:

 So don't just look at that article and make a do and don't list. Learn why and then learn to use the principle in your observance and you'll do ok.

And yes, you'll make mistakes. Don't whip yourself when you do. Just learn from it and correct yourself, and count it as joy you now know how better to serve and please Adonai!

Dan C

I don't know guys that I can have the extreme discipline it will take to do this effectively. I mean according to that article, seems all you can do is wake up on a saturday, just sit and do nothing except for praying all day long. Even using your phone would be off limits.

Also just curois, what do EMT, firemen, police e.t.c do who has to work on a saturday, do they get a pass because of their job?

[alon]

Sept 6, 2016 3:50:55 GMT -8 mystic said:

Sept 1, 2016 7:23:15 GMT -8 alon said:

And yes, you'll make mistakes. Don't whip yourself when you do. Just learn from it and correct yourself, and count it as joy you now know how better to serve and please Adonai!

Dan C

I don't know guys that I can have the extreme discipline it will take to do this effectively. I mean according to that article, seems all you can do is wake up on a saturday, just sit and do nothing except for praying all day long. Even using your phone would be off limits.

Also just curois, what do EMT, firemen, police e.t.c do who has to work on a saturday, do they get a pass because of their job?

Mystic, as I've said before, don't make this harder than it is. And go slowly. A lot of people get carried away and tell you what all you "have" to do, when they should be learning more and at least being honest that they too are still learning. I try to call my mother every Shabbath, and the "don't make a spark" "Law" notwithstanding I do not think I am breaking Shabbath. Everyone in my areadrives to synagogue as well, and many people are on their computers on Shabbath, myself included. I come here or listen to Messianic music, and often I use the comp to study the Word. Not everything you read somewhere nor everything someone tells you is true. And don't try to take on too much at once. However rest assured this much is true: If Elohim has called you to Messianic Judaism, you have what it takes to do it. He does not make mistakes. Your mistake is believing everything you hear or read, which gets pretty confusing.

That's why it's so important to, if at all possible find a good Messianic congregation and stay with them. If you can't do that, then pick one forum to be your resource and leave the rest alone. I know when we first start out we think the more places we look the more we'll learn. But what really happens is we just get confused. Leave that until later when you have a good foundation and can spot the bad doctrine and bad advice.

The archives here have more information than you'll ever learn; and you can ask if you have questions. So why go where they are either Spartan in their approach to , making it require such "extreme discipline," or just as bad someplace where anything goes? But it's your call ...

Dan C

[mystic]

One major issue for me which is at the core of sabbath is this:

with Jesus’ atonement, and justification by faith (Rom. 5:1), we no longer are required to keep the Law and hence the Sabbath which was only a shadow of things to come (Col. 2:16-17). We are not under Law but grace (Rom. 6:14-15). The Sabbath is fulfilled in Jesus because in Him we have rest (Matt. 11:28). We are not under obligation to keep the Law, and this goes for the Sabbath as well.

Also, what about this?

what do EMT, firemen, police e.t.c do who has to work on a saturday, do they get a pass because of their job?

The above questions is basically why I am trying to get as much info as I can to try to come to terms with it.

[jimmie]

Who is Jesus? He is the living Word. So Jesus is the Word of God. So of course he fulfilled the Sabbath and all Laws of God. God's Word contains the Law, therefore Jesus is the Law of God. To be "under" the law is to be guilty of breaking the law. To be "under" grace is to be released of the penalty (death) of the law. When someone is released/pardoned from the penalty of the law, it is not so that they can go break the law and be brought back under the law. It is so that they can have life and live within the Law/Word/Jesus/Salvation of God.

what do EMT, firemen, police e.t.c do who has to work on a saturday, do they get a pass because of their job?

Read more: theloveofgod.proboards.com/thread/3975/observe-sabbath#ixzz4JV7ArYLF

Why they do the same thing that Joshua and his army did.

[alon]

Sept 6, 2016 7:41:21 GMT -8 mystic said:

One major issue for me which is at the core of sabbath is this:

with Jesus’ atonement, and justification by faith (Rom. 5:1), we no longer are required to keep the Law and hence the Sabbath which was only a shadow of things to come (Col. 2:16-17). We are not under Law but grace (Rom. 6:14-15). The Sabbath is fulfilled in Jesus because in Him we have rest (Matt. 11:28). We are not under obligation to keep the Law, and this goes for the Sabbath as well.

Also, what about this?

what do EMT, firemen, police e.t.c do who has to work on a saturday, do they get a pass because of their job?

The above questions is basically why I am trying to get as much info as I can to try to come to terms with it.

We've talked about this one before, I believe. You have to learn to read in context or you'll fall easy prey to your Christian friends.

Romans 6:12-17 (ESV) Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, to make you obey its passions.  Do not present your members to sin as instruments for unrighteousness, but present yourselves to God as those who have been brought from death to life, and your members to God as instruments for righteousness.  For sin will have no dominion over you, since you are not under law but under grace. What then? Are we to sin because we are not under law but under grace? By no means!  Do you not know that if you present yourselves to anyone as obedient slaves, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin, which leads to death, or of obedience, which leads to righteousness?  But thanks be to God, that you who were once slaves of sin have become obedient from the heart to the standard of teaching to which you were committed,

"Let not sin therefore reign"- so the topic here being discussed is not allowing sin to control us.

"since you are not under law but under grace"- to be under the law is to be unsaved. Salvation has from the time of Adam been by grace through our trust in Elohim. And don't buy in to it when they tell you grace is only a "New Testament" thing. If there was no grace, how would Melech Dovid and many others have been forgiven?

"or of obedience"- obedience to what? If there is no more law, how are they to know what to obey? Most of Yeshua's instructions were given before His death and resurrection. Had He said ANYTHING against then it would have been sin, and He would not have been a perfect sacrifice. And if you read His statements IN CONTEXT and with mind engaged, He upheld always. And Rav Sha'ul said he never did anything to offend his people, the Jews. That would have to mean he kept as well. So I think it is clear exactly what law we as believers are supposed to be a slave to. !

"become obedient from the heart to the standard of teaching to which you were committed"- and there is confirms what I just said. Because at the time this was written there was no "New Testament." Most of those letters had not yet been written and none of it would be collected for 200-300 yrs. The only "standard of teaching" available to them was .

So no, if you are saved you are not under the law. But if you are truly saved you will want to become obedient to that same standard which God gave all men- His .

As for emergency responders, military and even Rabbis: they do their jobs on Shabbath. Remember we also discussed the fact that is "instruction;" and that there are higher mitzvoth than others. This idea that we have to just step in and keep all "the law" perfectly is Christian propaganda to scare us into going back to church.

Dan C

[mystic]

Regarding the people who needs to work on Saturdays, would you say it's better if they do not observe sabbath at all on any other day of the week or should they choose any day and do it?

[kepha]

Lets first go over the word fulfill, now Christians try to give it a meaning of "done away with" which if you are honest with your self is not the meaning. If you fulfill some thing you complete it. So Yeshua did not do away with the or laws or Shabbats He completed it by Magnifying (showing us how we should really keep the law) in Matt5-7 "the Mount Sermon". Read Matt 5-7 and you will understand this.

Once again read the whole context and do not pick out what suites one self.

Rom 5:9 Much more then, being justified now by His blood, we shall be delivered from wrath through Him.
His blood Justifies us when we sin and repent. What is sin then?
1Jn 3:4 Everyone practicing sin also practices lawlessness, and sin is the breaking of the .
It is also very clear out this scripture that even after Yeshua the Apostles where still teaching the people to keep the !

Rom 5:10 For if while being enemies we were reconciled to Elohim through the death of His Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by His life;
We are being reconciled by Yeshua through His blood and the second covenant and when we sin His blood can sanctify us so that we can be justified before our Father.
Once again sin is the breaking of the .

Rom 5:11 and not only so, but also glorying in YHWH through our Master Yeshua Messiah, through whom we now received the atonement.
Atonement for our Sins

Rom 5:12 Even as sin entered the world through one man(Adam), and death through sin, so also death passed to all men, in as much as all sinned.

Rom 5:13 For sin was in the world until the , but sin is not charged where there is no instruction;
Here Paul is saying very clearly for the people that if the or law was done away with, then there would have been no more sin, since sin is the breaking of the . If there are no more sin, cause we are not under the law any more, Why do we then need Yeshua. Can you see how ridiculous this christian lawlessness is and how dangerous it is.

Now lets look at Grace. What is Grace? Ever heard the term to give some one "a Grace period". It is actually time. It is the fact that Avinu do not Judge us immediately for our sins, we have time to repent and turn back from our sins and that is the Grace of the Father. If there were no grace from our Father we would had to pay for our sins Immediately, and then no man would make it into the Kingdom

now to your question what about the police, fire department, hospital staff and even some one in the forces?

 Luk 14:5 And answering to them He said, Which of you if his donkey or ox shall fall into a pit, and he will not at once pull it up on the Sabbath day?
Luk 14:3 And answering, Yeshua spoke to the scribes and Pharisees, asking whether it is lawful to heal on the Sabbath.

I can't for the life of me remember in what verse it was that Yeshua told the Hypocrites that one are allowed to do good on the Sabbath, ok lets look at these people, yes it is there work but it is of such nature that it protects, saves life, and is necessary 24hrs seven days a week.

If you can rescue some ones life and don't do it because it is Sabbath their blood is on your hands.

[alon]

Sept 6, 2016 10:20:41 GMT -8 mystic said:

Regarding the people who needs to work on Saturdays, would you say it's better if they do not observe sabbath at all on any other day of the week or should they choose any day and do it?

You may set aside time to spend with Elohim any time. However Shabbath is the day He set aside at creation and that cannot be changed. So to set aside another day, even if it were to make up for working in Emergency Services would be a sin. It would also be a sin to volunteer for an extra shift on Shabbath. However working a normal shift or being called out would be ok. Look at it this way: if it is ok to pull your donkey out of a ditch on Shabbat, it probably is ok to extricate an injured patient from a wrecked vehicle.

Dan C

[mystic]

Thanks guys. I know I have been going all over the place to acquire as much knowledge and different viewpoints as I possibly can. I have however firmly decided I am going to at least "try" by giving it my best to follow Jesus messages and lifestyle including following the sabbath and the 7 feasts but still keeping the as my foundation. I will still continue to question this that and other whenever I come across something which sparks my interest but that certainly doesn't mean it will ever change my fundamental beliefs mentioned above, that is intact.

I'd like to thank each and every one of you guys here who have helped me in my journey, I pray for God to shower his many blessings on each and every one of you and your loved ones every day of your lives, AMEN!!