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Post by mystic on Aug 5, 2016 11:11:43 GMT -8
Deu_31:12 Assemble the people, men and women, and the little ones, and your foreigner who is within your gates, so that they may hear, and so that they may learn, and may fear YHWH your Elohim, and take heed to do all the Words of this  ; This is but one verse, there are others as well Hey guys, this is what one of the guys had to say in response to that scripture, he says he doesn;t mind us discussing it, please let me know your thoughts: |
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Post by alon on Aug 5, 2016 12:29:12 GMT -8
Deu_31:12 Assemble the people, men and women, and the little ones, and your foreigner who is within your gates, so that they may hear, and so that they may learn, and may fear YHWH your Elohim, and take heed to do all the Words of this ; This is but one verse, there are others as well Hey guys, this is what one of the guys had to say in response to that scripture, he says he doesn;t mind us discussing it, please let me know your thoughts:
Deuteronomy 31:9-13 (ESV) The Reading of the Law Then Moses wrote this law and gave it to the priests, the sons of Levi, who carried the ark of the covenant of the Lord, and to all the elders of Israel. And Moses commanded them, “At the end of every seven years, at the set time in the year of release, at the Feast of Booths, when all Israel comes to appear before the Lord your God at the place that he will choose, you shall read this law before all Israel in their hearing. Assemble the people, men, women, and little ones, and the sojourner within your towns, that they may hear and learn to fear the Lord your God, and be careful to do all the words of this law, and that their children, who have not known it, may hear and learn to fear the Lord your God, as long as you live in the land that you are going over the Jordan to possess.”
After this it talks about the commissioning of Yehoshua (Joshua). So this is the entire passage, in context. A few points: first off, it clearly says that the foreigner should learn to fear God and do all that is said in the reading. It doesn't say just as long as either he or Israel is in the land. It says to learn to fear God. Salvation, then as now, was by joining yourself to Yisro'el and worshiping El Elohe Yisro'el (Rom 11 for my Christian brethren- yer either Jews or pagans- sorry guys). Then however the Gentile converting to Judaism would typically stay with the nation. Now, with even the Jews still dispersed we don't. However we worship a Jewish Messiah as HE said we were to worship; and that means as Jews do (or more accurately did at the time). And those instructions they were to hear and learn from AND KEEP were, and are, .
Second, that statement you referenced came near the end of the passage, so there was no contradiction saying "only Israel."
Next, since pagans did not keep the feasts or any other mitzvoth, then you wouldn't hear read if you left Yisro'el, whether you believed or not, unless you did as instructed and went up to Yerushalayim three times every year for the shalosh regalim- the feasts where you were commanded to appear. If you were a convert, then you'd keep the feasts and would go up; otherwise you would be cut off. After the first Temle was destroyed and the Hebrew people removed from the land, those Jews remaining in exile came to Yerushalayim for the shalosh regalim once the Temple was rebuilt.
Last, always be careful when a Christian tells you he's read something in context. He read it in the context of his doctrine and the dogma by which he has been indoctrinated. This is a great example. And I don't say that to be mean- I was once as he is now, and it takes a lot to move us away from these doctrines where we are comfortable into a search for the truth. Always read it for yourself. And if you have them read it in context for you, you will have to point these things out. Because even though it clearly says something different than what they believe it says, they cannot see it until the Ruach HaKodesh (Holy Spirit) loosens the scales over their eyes and they get a peek. Some this scares, and they will not look further. But there are those few who, once seeing some part of the truth then want more. Hopefully your friend is one of the latter.
Dan C
Oh and yes, you may quote all I said in this post to them. But please quote it all so there is no confusion.
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Post by alon on Aug 6, 2016 12:46:24 GMT -8
mystic, if you really want to make them mad, you could share this weeks haftara with them. But I don't recommend you do that, as a.) we are not here to just make Christians angry, and b.) they are nowhere near ready for that kind of a study. Just read it and take notes on some of the pertinent statements so you can answer some of the questions that are bound to come up- like why does the passage end with "as long as you live in the land that you are going over the Jordan to possess.” The answer is there, but you'll have to understand it to tell them.
Good luck.
Dan C
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Post by mystic on Aug 9, 2016 2:44:01 GMT -8
I think the heart of the problem in general is knowing exactly which laws from the OT applies to Gentiles. Looking at this from the outside, as an observer and having discussed the same issues with many christians, OJ's and MJ's, if there were scriptures which specifically said for example "no gentiles are to eat pork" then this would be very clear but seems the scriptures are all open to each person's individual opinions, that is basically what I am seeing.
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Post by alon on Aug 9, 2016 8:15:09 GMT -8
I think the heart of the problem in general is knowing exactly which laws from the OT applies to Gentiles. Looking at this from the outside, as an observer and having discussed the same issues with many christians, OJ's and MJ's, if there were scriptures which specifically said for example "no gentiles are to eat pork" then this would be very clear but seems the scriptures are all open to each person's individual opinions, that is basically what I am seeing.
Many people struggle with that question of whether the entire law applies to Gentiles. However Elohim did not have to say "and you Gentiles neither" on every issue or every commandment, because He said:
Num 15:16 (KJV) One law and one manner shall be for you, and for the stranger that sojourneth with you.
The word translated 'stranger' is 'ger.' And here is a place that going to the common Christian resources like Strong's will get your understanding skewed. They only translate the verb form of the word, which loosely translated means a guest or temporary resident. However as it is used in the above scripture it is a noun, and in scripture whenever you see the word alone it means a convert- someone who has joined themselves to Yisro'el. And according to Rav Sha'ul in his discourse on the wild (Gentile) vs. the cultivated (Jewish) Olive Trees and your being grafted into the cultivated tree- if you are saved, you are joined to Yisro'el. So you are a 'ger.' (Rom 11) Therefore one law () shall be for you, and that law says don't eat pork. Gentiles (the unsaved) don't accept , so no, one who remains a Gentile doesn't have to obey the dietary laws because Elohim gave us free will to sin as we please. However:
Rom 6:23 (KJV) For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
We as believers made a covenant agreement not to sin (violate ) when we accepted Yeshua as Lord in our lives. We were joined to Yisro'el, grafted in by God Himself. We are no longer Gentiles but are in fact Jews by adoption. So how then can we claim a Gentile exemption whenever we don't like how God said we are to conduct our lives? The answer to your dilemma is that every single law, even the smallest mitzvoth, applies to a Gentile who is grafted into the cultivated olive tree. Otherwise:
Romans 11:19-21 (ESV) Then you will say, “Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in.” That is true. They were broken off because of their unbelief, but you stand fast through faith. So do not become proud, but fear. For if God did not spare the natural branches, neither will he spare you.
If we willfully choose to disobey, we place ourselves at great risk of being cut off.
Dan C
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Post by alon on Aug 9, 2016 11:34:54 GMT -8
mystic, I've been thinking about it, and at first I was bothered because we, especially me, were giving you too much too soon. However you are asking, so we do need to respond. But again, you are talking to Christians and they are feeding you their dogmatic responses. Ours, as I am sure you've seen, tend to be better thought out as well as taken in context with the scales removed from our eyes. There is a lot to take in, and doing too much at once can be overwhelming. The more we talk, the more my advice to you is to find a good Messianic fellowship there and start attending regularly on Shabbath, as well as any other times you can do. Most offer classes and other instruction. You need a good grounding done correctly, where you move into this slowly and without the distractions of either Jewish or Christian input. They will only confuse you and cause you to ask questions like those here. Questions are good, but if you go back and look you'll see you've asked the same ones several times. This is due I think to the confusion of too many cooks stirring the pot in your head.
You may decide to just be a ger toshav for a while. This is how the TNK refers to temporary sojourners and those who are not fully observant. That's fine. As long as you are learning and moving forward, just do what you can. You won't be able to keep all the laws perfectly in a divided house anyhow. Hopefully your wife will get on board with you and become MJ herself. If not, it can be done, as Elizabeth and myself can attest. But if you keep going back and forth you'll never find anything except confusion. So if this is truly what you want to do, I urge you to simplify things for a while and just learn the basics in MJ.
Dan C |
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Post by mystic on Aug 10, 2016 2:31:05 GMT -8
Num 15:16 (KJV) One law and one manner shall be for you, and for the stranger that sojourneth with you.
We as believers made a covenant agreement not to sin (violate ) when we accepted Yeshua as Lord in our lives. We were joined to Yisro'el, grafted in by God Himself. We are no longer Gentiles but are in fact Jews by adoption. So how then can we claim a Gentile exemption whenever we don't like how God said we are to conduct our lives? The answer to your dilemma is that every single law, even the smallest mitzvoth, applies to a Gentile who is grafted into the cultivated olive tree. Otherwise:
Dan C That is THE BEST sentence I have ever come across for this, thanks! I don't mind talking to OJ's and christians to get their views and expand my knowledge in the process and who knows if what I learn here from you guys will rub off on them? I have one key question which I am posing to them right now which is if every human who believes in the God of Moses has to follow the 10 commandments then why is it that only one law [keeping the sabbath] would not apply? I am waiting for their answer. |
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Post by mystic on Aug 10, 2016 2:56:46 GMT -8
I also got this message from one christian:
Mike, The OT was for people that were not born again in their spirit. It was laws for the flesh. Because we are now born of the spirit, we have the life of the spirit.The law is death, the spirit is life. You are not under the law you are under the spirit. E.W. Kenyan just posted this same thing on Facebook. Read Romans, Corinthians, Galatians and Ephesians. The spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death! Now, that doesn't mean that you aren't to live a moral lifestyle, but you are free from the curse of the law. Stop trying to live under it. Your life is in Christ!
What do you guys make of that please?
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Post by kepha on Aug 10, 2016 5:33:15 GMT -8
If that is the case how would he define sin then? First let's look at what is sin? Sin is also called a transgression. So the question then is against what do we transgress then if we sin? Against what do we measure sin? Christians today will tell you "oh it is how you live your life and what you do", because they don't have something to actually tell you to measure it by. Now if I do something, you might think it is a sin, but I think it is not. How do we now determent if it is a sin or not? To transgress there must be a law we transgress against. Let us look at what is the definition of sin given to us in scripture: 1Jn 3:4 Everyone practicing sin also practices lawlessness and sin is the breaking of the (law).According to scripture the breaking of the law () is what sin is. Now we can measure sin against the . I f sin is then the breaking of the and the is done away with, then there would be no more sin. If there is no more sin then why are we so desperately in need of Our Savoir?
The teaching of the is nailed to the cross and done away with, is teaching people a lawless Grace that is just not true.
Let's see what Yeshua said if He came to do away with the . (Matthew 5:17) Do not think that I came to annul the or the Prophets; I did not come to annul, but to fulfill. Mat 5:18 Truly I say to you, Until the heaven and the earth pass away, in no way shall one yod or one stroke pass away from the until all comes to pass.Mat 5:19 Therefore, whoever loosens one of these commandments, the least, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the worst in the kingdom of Heaven†. But whoever does and teaches them, this one shall be called great in the kingdom of Heaven. Mat 5:17-19 are extremely clear that Yeshua's intention was NEVER to abolish the eternal of YHWH, but to magnify the intent. So what did He mean then when He said "I did not come to annul, but to fulfill"? He fulfilled the prophesies about His coming. He fulfilled the prophesies about Him dying for our sins. He fulfilled the prophesies that His own people will reject Him. He fulfilled the establishment of the New Covenant where under we have forgiveness of our sins. And more. He did NOT fulfilled or done away with the . Do we need to keep the ? Let's see what Yeshua said about the keeping of the . Joh 14:15 If you love Me, keep My commandments. ( ) Joh 14:21 He that has My commandments ( ) and keeps them, it is that one who loves Me; and the one that loves Me shall be loved by My Father, and I shall love him and will reveal Myself to him. We see out of these verses that if we love Him we will keep the . His is all about love, love for the Father, love for Him, love to our fellow people and love for our self. No law in the is bad for us. It is only good and for our own good! Mat 5:18 Truly I say to you, Until the heaven and the earth pass away, in no way shall one yod or one stroke pass away from the until all comes to pass. Here Yeshua clearly states that not even one stroke or yod from the will be done away with, before all the Heavens and the Earth will be destroyed when YHWH renew the earth and heavens again. If it is not done away with and YHWH never change, is it then not quite obvious that we need to keep the ? Yeshua taught out of the to people, why would He have done that if they, and then we, did not need to keep the after His Crucifixion? Would He then not have taught to the people that if they just believed in Him they did not have to keep the anymore? Matt 5,6 and 7 Yeshua is teaching on the mountain called the "Sermon on the Mount" And He is clearly teaching the people from the , and is magnifying the . What did the Messiach said to the Scribes and Pharisees? Mat_23:23 Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you pay tithes of mint and dill and cumin, and you have left aside the weightier matters of the judgment, and mercy, and faith. And these things were necessary for you to have done, and these things you should not have forgotten. Did the Apostles after the Crucifixion say we need to keep the ? 1Jn 2:3 And by this we know that we have known Him, if we keep His commandments. 1Jn 2:4 The one saying, I have known Him, and not keeping His commandments ( ) is a liar, and the truth is not in that one†. 1Jn 2:5 But whoever keeps His Word(another termed use in those days for the ), truly in this one the love of YHWH has been perfected. By this we know that we are in Him. Did the Heavenly Father Yah ever say that we need not keep the anymore? Deu_7:9 Because of this, know that YHWH your Elohim, He is Elohim, the faithful El, keeping the covenant and mercy to those who love Him, and to those who keep His commandments, to a thousand generations; A thousand generations works out at about 70 thousand years. We are only now in the ending of six thousand years since Adam and Eve and no where even close to 70 Thousand years. Exo_12:17 And you shall observe the unleavened bread for on this very day I brought out your armies from the land of Egypt. And you shall observe this day for your generations, a statute forever. There are so many verses in the Five books of the where a law, a statue or a judgement were given that ends with something like "this is an everlasting commandment/statue/judgement for all the generations." or something of that sort. So that includes us. It is very clear looking at the that Avinu (Our Father) made these laws forever. He does not change, Ever!!! Redacted: links to other forums or blogs may not be posted. See Rule #11. Please watch when you copy from another forum that they do not have a tag automatically placed at the bottom. Also, just as a side note, only your own work should be copied from another source such as a forum. And some forums even have agreements when you sign up that whatever you write becomes their property. alon |
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Post by alon on Aug 10, 2016 10:13:23 GMT -8
Christian doctrine is that God only gave His Spirit to us at “Pentacost” and thereafter. They also say that “grace” is a New Testament phenomenon, and did not occur in the Old Testament. Since most or even all a Christians studies are in the NT, it is easy for the church to promote these lies. There are many, many examples of God’s grace at work in the TNK; and many more examples of the Ruach HaChodesh at work there as well.
Grace, which in many translations is called “favor” so as to help this false doctrine by calling it a different name, is abundant. Do a word search for the terms ‘grace’ and ‘favor’ and see for yourself. Herre’s one example:
Genesis 6:8 (KJV) But Noah found grace in the eyes of the Lord.
Genesis 6:8 (ESV) But Noah found favor in the eyes of the Lord.
The work of the Spirit is likewise evident throughout the TNK. The Spirit was at work from the beginning, at creation:
Genesis 1:2 (ESV) The earth was without form and void, and darkness was over the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters.
The regenerative power of the Ruach HaKodesh was evident in peoples lives:
Deuteronomy 30:6 (ESV) And the Lord your God will circumcise your heart and the heart of your offspring, so that you will love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul, that you may live.
The indwelling of the Spirit was there as well:
Numbers 27:18 (ESV) So the Lord said to Moses, “Take Joshua the son of Nun, a man in whom is the Spirit, and lay your hand on him.
And the Ruach empowere prophets and even, as here working men for service:
Exodus 31:2-3 (ESV) “See, I have called by name Bezalel the son of Uri, son of Hur, of the tribe of Judah, 3 and I have filled him with the Spirit of God, with ability and intelligence, with knowledge and all craftsmanship,
So your Christian friends have been lied to. God didn’t change. Men just changed their perception of God.
In Christian thinking, the purpose of the law was to condemn the Jews and prove that no one can keep the law perfectly. However this is not what even the New Testament says:
Romans 3:19-20 (ESV) Now we know that whatever the law says it speaks to those who are under the law, so that every mouth may be stopped, and the whole world may be held accountable to God. For by works of the law no human being will be justified in his sight, since through the law comes knowledge of sin.
The “whole world” would include Gentiles in general, and specifically Christians. And the stated purpose here is the law brings knowledge of sin. So did God suddenly declare a whole bunch of sins to now be ok? Did the law change?
Romans 3:31 (ESV) Do we then overthrow the law by this faith? By no means! On the contrary, we uphold the law.
So we are clearly told to uphold the law and not to overthrow it. Yet from this they get that it was only meant to condemn the Jews. Frankly, their own words condemn them. Because to be “under the law” is a euphemism for being under its curse- found guilty of and showing the fruits of sin:
Galatians 5:18-24 (ESV) But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law. Now the works of the flesh are evident: sexual immorality, impurity, sensuality, idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, fits of anger, rivalries, dissensions, divisions, envy, drunkenness, orgies, and things like these. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law. And those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.
“But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.” So now the Christian has a problem. We’ve already seen that men in the Old Testament were led by, empowered by, indwelled by the Ruach HaKodesh. These men were led by the Spirit. Were they, being Old Testament Jews and all- were they then under the law, or under grace? I mean, in Deu 30:6 the whole nation was indwelled by the Ruach … AND their offspring! What of them Jews? Were they under some different law?
The Christians innate dislike, even hatred of the Jews, and their lifting themselves up above these people chosen of God Himself are the fruits of sin, not of the Spirit. They say they have replaced the Jews as God’s chosen people. Yet they never asked God if they could do this, and He certainly never said they could. Their God changed, which means He lied if you believe their doctrine. They must serve a different god than my God, because my God said He does not change.
I have sat in churches and heard the God of the Old Testament described as vengeful and harsh, while the new Testament God is loving, forgiving … pure insanity! Did Elohim not love Melech Dovid? Did He not forgive him of the most egregious sins? I mean, he consummated his lust with another man’s wife, then had the man killed! But when confronted, he threw himself down and repented, and was forgiven. Is that not grace?
Now many Christians will say they don’t hate the Jews. They love them, in fact. But the prejudice against Judaism runs so deep in their faith and comes so natural they don’t even realize it. My wife, who accepted Christ and is still a Christian is often uncomfortable with this. She doesn’t like people to know she was raised a Jew because of the idiotic and insensitive things otherwise good Christians say to her. I think the best was when a friend told her “But I thought we were supposed to hate the Jews.” Really?
So then what would I say to the question they asked?
Christians are deceived. They know neither the God they worship, nor the things He said, because they are lied to about what those things meant. And instead of reading and interpreting for themselves, they simply parrot what their preachers, teachers, and Pied Pipers for the damned have told them.
Dan C
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Post by alon on Aug 10, 2016 10:55:19 GMT -8
I can answer that. They say the day was changed to honor the day 'Jesus' rose from the dead. The authority for this change is said to come from apostolic succession- a direct link from Jesus and the apostles to the Bishop of Rome (a.k.a. the Pope). They are wrong on two counts. First, there is no direct link from the early apostles to Rome. Their succession tree is rooted in the Roman quislings appointed to the High Priesthood. Their own church fathers wrote about how much they hated the Jews and eschewed anything Jewish. Yet the apostles clearly were Jews and lived and worshiped as Jews.
But most condemning to their claims is that Yeshua did not raise from the dead on Sunday. He rose on Shabbath and was not discovered until Sunday.
Mark 16:1-2 (ESV) When the Sabbath was past, Mary Magdalene, Mary the mother of James, and Salome bought spices, so that they might go and anoint him. And very early on the first day of the week, when the sun had risen, they went to the tomb.
Luke 24:1-3 (ESV) But on the first day of the week, at early dawn, they went to the tomb, taking the spices they had prepared. And they found the stone rolled away from the tomb, but when they went in they did not find the body of the Lord Jesus.
In none of the gospels does it say he was raised from the dead on Sunday. But Christians are told He did, and so they read this as "He rose and was discovered gone on "Easter Sunday."" So in their doctrine, God wanted to pay tribute to the goddess Ishtar. That could never happen. I can see Him throwing it back in ha'satan's face by revealing the fact of His resurrection on that day. Remember when this same Yeshua told Kepha the gates of Hell would not prevail against His congregation? They were literally standing in front of the "Gates of Hell," a grotto in the Galil where many pagan gods were worshiped, when He said that and announced the choosing of Kepha as the first Shaliach Tzibur- the first Apostle. That was a declaration of war. This was the victory announcement, and both were made right in the face of the enemy, ha'satan. But the victory was won on the weekly Shabbath, the day Elohim set apart as His own as soon as His creation work was done. Our God does not honor pagan gods, but He does proclaim His own greatness and glory in all that He does. And this entire event was tied to creation and to all human history and Elohim's interactions with us. Yeshua had come to reclaim what was His by right of creation, now by right of purchasing something that was lost.
Dan C
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Post by Elizabeth on Aug 10, 2016 13:10:06 GMT -8
I think the heart of the problem in general is knowing exactly which laws from the OT applies to Gentiles. Looking at this from the outside, as an observer and having discussed the same issues with many christians, OJ's and MJ's, if there were scriptures which specifically said for example "no gentiles are to eat pork" then this would be very clear but seems the scriptures are all open to each person's individual opinions, that is basically what I am seeing. Mystic, just curious, what is it you personally are unsure about regarding us, Christianity, and Judaism? I know you are questioning how the applies to you. That must mean you don't know where you fit in as belonging to Him....so that's about who is Israel? Do you also personally question the identity, divinity, and/or role of Yeshua as well if you don't mind me asking? I just feel like you are being pulled between too many other people's perspectives to make up your own mind so I want to know more of your own thoughts for a better grasp of what you are looking for. Here's the thing, these questions don't have answers that people can convince you of. We can explain what we have found to be true, but that ultimately doesn't do much for you, because you need your own foundation to grow and stand on. I am wondering if the experience with your son, as beautiful as it was, was also overwhelming for you. I wonder if it's impacting your approach to searching as you are trying to fit everything together at once and rush things. We have such a Big G-d that a life time wouldn't be enough to figure it all out. Maybe a lot was handed to you in that experience and now perhaps it feels like how do I fit this in? What am I supposed to do with this and how can I say thank you? I can't know, but if I imagine myself in that situation, I think that's how I would feel. Anyway, I know you won't fit it into anything coming from the world, but that's what's so wonderful about it. Give yourself time to ponder with Him and be in awe of Him. Let Him be unfathomable because He is. Just enjoy how much He loves you and your son and how much He thinks on and about you. That's a beautiful place to be. As you sort things out, He should be where you look for direction and guidance because you are completely right about the Scriptures being open to human interpretation. That's exactly why it is imperative upon us as people seeking Him to delve into prayerful scripture study on our own depending on Him to reveal what He needs us to know. Our learning is best done according to His wisdom about what we need and can handle. Looking too much to people won't grow your relationship with Him, and what He wants more than anything is a relationship with you. I was in a search similar to what you are experiencing, and I didn't know what to believe or where to go next. It wasn't till I started prayerfully reading scripture seeking answers from Him that I was able to begin making sense of what He was handing me so just sharing what I can in case you can relate. |
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Post by alon on Aug 10, 2016 13:30:44 GMT -8
Colossians 2:8 (ESV) See to it that no one takes you captive by philosophy and empty deceit, according to human tradition, according to the elemental spirits [elementary principles] of the world, and not according to Christ.
I don't think they are so much open to interpretation as they are misinterpreted, usually intentionally, by men. God meant every word He said just AS He said it. And He meant it in the entire Bible, not just the latest additions. We are not Muslim that our holy book has two parts which disagree and we are instructed to do as the second part says. No, our God does not change, nor does His Word. So while men can say it means something different, it does not. It means what it says, B'reshith to Hazon- Genesis to Revelation.
Dan C
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Post by Elizabeth on Aug 10, 2016 13:54:40 GMT -8
Colossians 2:8 (ESV) See to it that no one takes you captive by philosophy and empty deceit, according to human tradition, according to the elemental spirits [elementary principles] of the world, and not according to Christ.
I don't think they are so much open to interpretation as they are misinterpreted, usually intentionally, by men. God meant every word He said just AS He said it. And He meant it in the entire Bible, not just the latest additions. We are not Muslim that our holy book has two parts which disagree and we are instructed to do as the second part says. No, our God does not change, nor does His Word. So while men can say it means something different, it does not. It means what it says, B'reshith to Hazon- Genesis to Revelation.
Dan C
I don't know how to copy from other threads and quote or paste them in here, link to them, so on and so forth, or whatever; but you said yourself in a post under the thread about what went wrong here in Galatians that man can tamper with and mistranslate/ misinterpret the words of the Bible. I dont disagree that the truth is there and G-d is perfect in His word, I am simply suggesting we sometimes need to take a step back, spend time with G-d and trust Him to guide our understanding of His Word Instead of involve ourselves further in man's intentional and unintentional confusion. We are saying we know the truth. Obviously, I agree, and believe I know the truth and am learning in the right path. Meanehile, countless other people are saying the same thing while believing something different and they are referencing the same book. That is the issue I am focusing on in my comment. Sorry if it seemed I suggested something offensive. |
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Post by alon on Aug 10, 2016 14:44:56 GMT -8
This new system gives me fits trying to work with it as well. I just highlight and copy them, then paste to the new post, type in “_______ said:” then rehighlight and use the quote bubble. Not very elegant, but it works.
Nothing you said was offensive. I just thought we needed some clarity there. A man wrote the Quran. In the first part, the Jews were “people of the book” and he loved them; then he got angry with the Jews and wrote an addition in which he commanded his followers to kill the Jews.
Elohim inspired a book (before Muhammad did) and man divided it into two parts. These men also hated the Jews, they tampered with the Word, and eventually they even interpreted what was written to mean they should also kill the Jews. God never said that. If He had, what would make Him any different than the demon Allah? What would distinguish His prophets from Muhammad? It’s not even open for discussion in any true faith based on the Word of God. But men do like it their way … so we hate, we kill, we commit atrocities; all in the name of God.
Many Christian leaders are going to have a lot to answer for at the judgement. And they will not be able to say in their defense “But … but … I THOUGHT You said …”
Dan C
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