Niddah

[vickylee]

Can someone please explain to me what is required at this time? Explain the issue of "unlcean". I have read that it is not a "spiritual" unclean, but just a physical unclean, and the mitzveh is for thie physical uncleanness. I have believed for many years the need to observe the allotted time of separation, but the no touching etc. Is that still "required"?

sorry, my questions are "rambling" have a two year old on my lap biting and pinching me. i'll come back with more questions later if what I'm looking for doesnt get answered

[R' Y'hoshua Moshe]

Shalom Vickylee,

sorry, my questions are "rambling" have a two year old on my lap biting and pinching me.

This is a good question. My wife and I do practice niddah during her ritual time of uncleanliness and the time after the birth of a child.

but the no touching etc. Is that still "required"?

As it does make one unclean by doing so, I would recommend practicing this precept if the one whom is clean wishes to stay clean. Of course, one of the main reasons (not the only reason) for this would be the following passage found within the context of the scripture that handles these issues...

"So you shall separate the sons of Israel from their uncleanness, and they shall not die in their uncleanness, when they defile My tabernacle that is in their midst."
- Vayikra (Lev.) 15:31

The tabernacle is not with us now...but, it will be.

Shalom sister,

Reuel

[Chizuk Emunah]

Explain the issue of "unlcean". I have read that it is not a "spiritual" unclean, but just a physical unclean, and the mitzveh is for thie physical uncleanness.

That's right. It is not an issue of being spiritually unclean, but actually physical uncleanliness. In other words, it's not the same as committing a sin (which makes us spiritually unclean), rather it is a normal state of life, and is better described as "taboo", or "off limits."
I actually came across a good article that I found on the web yesterday. I don't have the link with me, but when I find it, I'll go ahead and post it for you.

Shalom,
Notzari Y'hudi

[Mark]

We have come to understand that the observance of cleanness makes every aspect of life an area of worship. We understand all areas of to be "spiritual" because the Law is "spiritual" (Romans 7:14). Being rendered unclean is not sinful (in most cases); but we believe that how you respond to that uncleanness may be sinful: you are to wash with water before sundown and then become clean. Bathing becomes an act of worship, not just something we do.

[Chizuk Emunah]

Bathing becomes an act of worship, not just something we do.

Wow. Good insight there.

[R' Y'hoshua Moshe]

Being rendered unclean is not sinful (in most cases); but we believe that how you respond to that uncleanness may be sinful: you are to wash with water before sundown and then become clean. Bathing becomes an act of worship, not just something we do.

Yes, any observance of any commandment with the right heart is an act of worship. Good point Mark!

Shalom b'Yeshua,

Reuel

[Rick]

I am curious about how other married men in the forum observe
their wives "time of separation".
How do you 'guys' apply the mitvah in your own homes?
My wife tends to get a little cranky with me.
She thinks I'm "too literal". I feel I am simply applying what is put forth in , I have not "added to, nor taken away" from scripture.
She seems to think it is not as "black and white" as we have applied it.

Any insight, observations, personal experience, etc. would be appreciated.
If she can read how other familys apply the Mitzvah in their own homes I may find a small measure of vindication,
It would be even more helpful to read something from our female members on this subject.

Shalom b'Yeshua, Rick

[R' Y'hoshua Moshe]

It is interesting to note that if one does not employ birth control methods and the wife's body takes on it's natural course of becoming pregnant, there is virtually no niddah to deal with. Of course, there is the time after birth that is prescribed in regards to niddah (separation). But, we find something interesting if we compare the time in regards to how long the couple is to be separated intimately (avoiding physical contact with each other) with two scenarios. The first time scenario concerns a woman (wife) which is consistently going through her monthly niddah. The second time scenario concerns a wife whom is consistently pregnant and breast-feeding on a regular basis (not going through her monthly niddah).

If one compares the two time spans based on a full year, it can be seen that the woman whom experiences her monthly time of niddah (separation) will experience more separation (if they observe the mitzvah) between the husband and the wife.

So, we can see that those whom choose not to limit G'd in the area of bringing forth holy offspring, there is more time available for intimacy than if one chooses to limit G'd in this area of their life.

Because my wife and I are always having babies, we very rarely deal with her monthly niddah. The niddah we deal with most often deals with the time allotted by our Heavenly Father's in regards to either a male or female child. And, this happens only about once every two years. When we do have an opportunity to observe the time of niddah, we as much as possible follow the commandments found in . A few examples would be; we do not sleep in the same bed and avoid sitting in the same areas that may be defiled by her "daveh" (menstruation). We avoid touching each other as instructs. This actually serves to strengthen our appreciation of the intimacy that we do share and helps us not to take it for granted or treat it as some common thing.

Shalom chaverim,

Reuel

[Rick]

we as much as possible follow the commandments found in . A few examples would be; we do not sleep in the same bed and avoid sitting in the same areas that may be defiled by her "daveh" (menstruation). We avoid touching each other as instructs.

Our observance is the same, My wife feels that my refraining from touching during her time is taking it too far. After we reread the verses pertaining to this, she aquiesced somewhat.

This actually serves to strengthen our appreciation of the intimacy that we do share and helps us not to take it for granted or treat it as some common thing.

I agree, seems to "make the fruit sweeter". I think with my wife, it is not so much the observance, as it is she doesn't like the separation. Which to me is a blessing, knowing that she does not like, not being able to touch. Gives me a deeper affection for her knowing she can "miss me" while in the same house.

Shalom b'Yeshua, Rick

[Shiloah]

Can I ask a question here on this topic please?

What was Yshua's attitude to women who were menstruating?

[Mark]

I have to admit that I'm a little inexperienced in this area. Having been married for fifteen years, we have seven children and my wife has nursed them for about a year each. I think she may only have had have a dozen menstral cycles in the past twelve years!

It may help to look at Mark 5:25-34 to see Yeshua's position. This wasn't a normal menstral cycle; but the same law applied regarding her uncleanness. Yeshua's response was one of grace and love- not condmnation. A Sadducee would have had her cast from the synagogue for such an act (essentially condemning her to Hell). Yet, hsi response it call her "daughter".

I believe that it is not wrong to demonstrate affection toward one's wife during this time- particularly if she is one who needs physical contact on a regular basis. It is sinful to engage in sexual activity (uncovering her nakedness). In the day, sanitary napkins weren't so relaible and separate sleeping arangements would be normal (in some cases, separate tents altogether). Yet, we must understand that any contact renders us unclean and would require mikvah before sundown. With our indoor plumbing and heated water, this is also not really any big deal either.

[Eli Yeshua]

This wasn't a normal menstrual cycle; but the same law applied regarding her uncleanness. Yeshua's response was one of grace and love- not condemnation.

Excellent point Mark! I have to agree with you here. And I also share in your sentiments with regard to a wife's menstruation in "that it is not wrong to demonstrate affection toward one's wife during this time," in your words. Your retort citing Yeshua's response is most appropriate and eye-opening in this instance and sheds much light on this study for me.

Todah

Eli Yeshua

[Shiloah]

All I know is that when I was at the point of my life where this was a reality for me (I had a hysterectomy 5 years ago, so it is no longer part of my experience) all I ever wanted at that time was a back rub and a cuddle. So as a woman I would have found it really hard if my husband, who cares for me as Christ cares for the church, had chosen not to touch me at all. But, I respect others convictions if they feel this is right. Just my personal viewpoint.

[Prodigal Girl]

mark said:

I have to admit that I'm a little inexperienced in this area. Having been married for fifteen years, we have seven children and my wife has nursed them for about a year each. I think she may only have had have a dozen menstral cycles in the past twelve years!

It may help to look at Mark 5:25-34 to see Yeshua's position. This wasn't a normal menstral cycle; but the same law applied regarding her uncleanness. Yeshua's response was one of grace and love- not condmnation. A Sadducee would have had her cast from the synagogue for such an act (essentially condemning her to Hell). Yet, hsi response it call her "daughter".

I believe that it is not wrong to demonstrate affection toward one's wife during this time- particularly if she is one who needs physical contact on a regular basis. It is sinful to engage in sexual activity (uncovering her nakedness). In the day, sanitary napkins weren't so relaible and separate sleeping arangements would be normal (in some cases, separate tents altogether). Yet, we must understand that any contact renders us unclean and would require mikvah before sundown. With our indoor plumbing and heated water, this is also not really any big deal either.

Leviticus 15 seems to say it is ok to touch, but that it would make the husband unclean until evening after he washes if he does so. If he lies down with her (no sex) and gets some of "it" on him, then the uncleaness would last 7 days for him also. The uncleaness also applies to the bed and bedding, which would also impact others in the house that touch it/them, making them unclean. This is all very interesting to me as there has been some conflict around this issue for my family, since my daughters have close friends whose father is from an orthodox (Israeli) background and has brought up the issue very emphatically though in a veiled manner. I have had to research it in order to make things work in our friendship. The first time he was in my house and saw my daughters bedroom, he kind of had a fit because their beds were touching. Usually it is a bunk bed, but I had put them together temporarily because a married couple had visited us for a few days and used the girls' bedroom. I had no idea why he was so upset, and had to research to gain some understanding.

[rivkah]

I'm in a relationship with a wonderful observant man and we are planning to marry some time early next year.

Can some lay out the basics of the laws of niddah for me and what (married couples here) do to keep this mizvah?

Thanks for your help.