Chronicles of Narnia

[LovingNeighbor]

There's alot of talk about this movie, and it's even being preached in many churches to go see it. But to me it seems like another Harry Potter, Lord of the Rings, only this one marketed to Christians.

In my opinion it is a attack on Christianity to drag it into the world and glorification of magic and such things. I know the justifications of it being a picture of messiah and the candy cane of christmas is the sheperds staff, Harry potter is a bible based story and blah blah blah, but should we be having the appearance of evil. Would Messiah sit down and watch this movie with you?

Would he sit down and watch Texas chansaw massacre with you because there was murder in the bible. I dont think so. WHat do you think? Are many being decieved by hollywood to put such things in their head. Personnaly it makes me sick.

[Mark]

It's, sadly, an easy justification that CS Lewis was an outspoken and well-written Christian apologetist. King David was a man after God's own heart; but that certainly doesn't justify everything that he did in life. We steer away from Narnia or anything that uses magic as a means to achieve an ends.

However, the term "magic" is broader in definition than we tend to accredit it. If I say that it was a "magical" sunset, there is no hint of irreverance toward Adonai in the statement. It can be used as a recognition of what is simply incomprehensible. We have the film "Summer Magic" starring Haley Mills, in our video library and don't consider it to be a conflict to ourselves. I guess what I am saying is, be cognizant of our tendency to "witch hunt" (pun intended), not to be too judgmental upon someone who may view this from a different perspective.

Narnia isn't for us, and we discussed it as a family before deciding not to go see it- my children, after seeing some trailers, were convinced that even if the story came from a man who loved Yeshua, this film doesn't portray godliness by any stretch of the imagination.

[Firestorm]

I went to see "The Lion The Witch And The Wardrobe" and thought it was excellent. I've always been a big fan of C.S. Lewis because he gives the impression that one can be a believer and have a brain too. I don't get that impression from most evangelical sources.
I'm glad I became a believer when I did, because today I wouldn't be compelled by the testimony of the evangelical community . For one thing I 'd get the impression, from the way many evangelical believers speak and act, that Satan not God was the omnipotent one since Satan seems to get the credit for just about everything.
There's way too much "witch hunting" going on and that, I feel is a trend that, as anybody who knows their history knows, can become dangerous. It seems to be that anything which is a little bit eccentric , off the wall or unusual is automatically labelled Satanic and that's the end of it. There's no room for anyone who expresses their faith in any other way apart from the approved bumper sticker cliches. Given the disastrous consequences this line of thinking produced in the past, particularly for the Jewish people, I'm surprised more Messianics haven't come out against aping this church trend.
What I enjoy about C.S. Lewis, in both his serious and fictional works, is that he prods the reader to examine his or her own belief in terms other than televangelist "Godspeak" in a way that few other Christian writers do. I think this is something that is invaluable when it comes to witnessing to the unsaved who are puzzled and put off by what they perceive as yet more obscure jargon of yet another societal clique.

[Mishkan]

firestorm said:

I went to see "The Lion The Witch And The Wardrobe" and thought it was excellent.

I also thought it was wonderful. I have always loved the Narnia series. I guess I have a soft spot for anthrpomorphic use of animals. And the idea of love as a "deep magic" has always intrigued me.

I thought the script was quite true to the original, for the most part. And the animation was spectacular. I was amazed at how they made the finding of the wardrobe, plain as it was, into a such a special "moment" of revelation.

firestorm said:

I've always been a big fan of C.S. Lewis because he gives the impression that one can be a believer and have a brain too. I don't get that impression from most evangelical sources.

You've hit the nail on the head. Lewis attempted to apply reason to the understanding of Biblical faith. I think he did an excellent job, too.

I've always enjoyed the story of how Lewis came to faith. He and a number of fellow college professors used to gather at a particular pub on their free time. At the time, Lewis was an atheist, and JRR Tolkien was a strong Catholic. Tolkien kept arguing the merits of Biblical faith with Lewis, until finally, Lewis became a believer. However, Tolkien still felt frustrated and angry with Lewis--because he chose to be an evangelical Protestant, rather than Roman Catholic!

firestorm said:

I'm glad I became a believer when I did, because today I wouldn't be compelled by the testimony of the evangelical community. For one thing I 'd get the impression, from the way many evangelical believers speak and act, that Satan not God was the omnipotent one since Satan seems to get the credit for just about everything.

You know, there used to be a comedian named Flip Wilson. One of his most notable lines was, "The Devil made me do it!" I was probably about eight or ten years old when I used to watch his program.

Somehow, his skits made me think about the nature of the real Adversary, and question whether I really wanted to blame all my flaws on someone else--another created, limited being. Even as a child, I concluded that I preferred to take responsibility for my own mistakes. It was another seven or eight years before I accepted the existence of an infinite, omnipotent deity, who had given instructions for my life.

firestorm said:

There's way too much "witch hunting" going on and that, I feel is a trend that, as anybody who knows their history knows, can become dangerous.

Quite true.

firestorm said:

It seems to be that anything which is a little bit eccentric, off the wall or unusual is automatically labelled Satanic and that's the end of it. There's no room for anyone who expresses their faith in any other way apart from the approved bumper sticker cliches.

Precisely. That is exactly why I am here. I tired of the abuse towards messianics on another online forum. It became routine to attack every Messianic who didn't give lip service to Protestant, Reformation theology.

firestorm said:

Given the disastrous consequences this line of thinking produced in the past, particularly for the Jewish people, I'm surprised more Messianics haven't come out against aping this church trend.

Well, I am one who resists "aping" the church trends. So, you're not alone.

firestorm said:

What I enjoy about C.S. Lewis, in both his serious and fictional works, is that he prods the reader to examine his or her own belief in terms other than televangelist "Godspeak" in a way that few other Christian writers do. I think this is something that is invaluable when it comes to witnessing to the unsaved who are puzzled and put off by what they perceive as yet more obscure jargon of yet another societal clique.

Oh, absolutely! Having lived through WWII and the horrible death of his wife by cancer, he really had his head on straight. It seems that God often gives greater understanding of his Truth to people who suffer most. I suppose that gives hope to those of us who are going through bad times.

Shalom,

Mishkan David

[Firestorm]

I've seen a number of "Christian" sites countering the Messianic movement and some of them are borderline hate sites.
However, I have seen evidence of knee-jerk, bubblegum fundamentalism spreading its slimy tentacles into the Messianic movement. Of all the church trends in history, this brand of groupthink is, IMHO, the most antithetical to the ancient Jewish tradtion of mulling everything through.

[The 614th Mitzvot]

I feel it is an excellent film and the purpose was also noble, to explain HaShem metaphorically to children.

[Blake]

chumash614 said:

I feel it is an excellent film and the purpose was also noble, to explain HaShem metaphorically to children.

I must agree. Christ even used mythology in the parable of the Rich Man and Lazarus?

[LovingNeighbor]

Shalom all,
it seems the conversation has slid off topic, how does one justify seeing this movie and giving money to them to promote other movies about witchcraft when the states witchcraft is a sin and to not suffer it. watching movies glorifying it wouldn't seem appropriate.

Gal 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
Gal 5:20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
Gal 5:21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

I didn't see a clause saying if it's good magic, or the bad guys use magic it is ok. That is the same marketing Harry Potter slings.

Don't get me wrong, If you don't have this understanding in the I am not judging you. But one should be warned that Movies like this tell society that we are just like them and doesn't draw a line between God's people and Paganism.

1Sa 15:23 For rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft, and stubbornness is as iniquity and idolatry. Because thou hast rejected the word of the LORD, he hath also rejected thee from being king.

The goal should be to become a set apart or holy people and I don't think I would sit down with Messiah and watch a movie with centaurs, minataurs, and magic.

I also disagree Messiah used mythology in the story of the rich man I don't see where you get that.

Be encouraged and watch out Satan has a flavor of sin for everyone. Gaurd your gates from the poison that you may be accepting or justifying.
Shalom

[R' Y'hoshua Moshe]

I must agree. Christ even used mythology in the parable of the Rich Man and Lazarus?

Sorry Blake, I am sure you would like it to be mythology, but I for one believe it was a real account.

I think we have to be careful about judging each other when it comes to movies like this. I would not put it in the same category as "Harry Potter" which clearly promotes the use of witchcraft. I don't think that it is a sin to watch a movie that depicts the miraculous. But, if it actually promotes the use of sorcery by humans, then I think we would have a major problem.

Loving Neighbor, have you ever read the books in question, or seen the movie? If not, is there anyone that has that can verify that the practice of sorcery is promoted for the use by humans in this movie? If so, this should be a clear reason for anyone that is observant not to support the movie. Do any of the "good" characters in this story use sorcery/magic in their doings? And if so, does the story depict this in a postive or a negative way? I just think we need to do more careful investigation before we reject something as being from Satan. Making careful enquiry before coming to judgments is also a commandment.

I for one saw the movie and enjoyed the animation (particularly the Lion), some of the messages protrayed, but would not show the movie to my children. This is mainly because of the Greek mythological creatures which dominate the movie. The majority of these creatures do have their roots in Greek mythology and paganism. I just don't feel comfortable having my children getting comfortable with the ideas that these creatures are "good" and acceptable. I think that as long as a movie does not promote sorcery for humankind, than an adult whom sees the movie will not be promoting sorcery either.

One other thing that didn't sit well with me about this movie was the promotion of the celebration of Christmas.

how does one justify seeing this movie and giving money to them to promote other movies about witchcraft

If you watch any movies produced by Hollywood...you will no doubt support other movies you also do not approve of...

Any other thoughts?

Reuel

[LovingNeighbor]

Shalom all,
Reuel, you said it doesn't promote humans to do sorcery, but that is the same argument of why Israel didn't tare down the groves, they weren't using them, but they were not to allow it to be among them. If you wouldn't let your children watch it as an earthly father would our Father in Heaven have a lesser standard for his children. I won't call it a sin, but I think it's poor judgment. Messiah said we being evil know how to give good gifts to our children, how much more does our Father in Heaven to us. We just have to be careful about what we put in our heads. I didn't see texas chain saw massacre but I know i wouldn't want to. I saw the trailer for it and I used to be into dungeouns and dragons, and all kind of stuff and that is the crowd for those movies. It's like homosexuals on TV they aren't promoting you to be Gay but look at the impact it is having on our society by people watching them. I think this movie is a grove to be tore down. But we must all search ourselves out in these things. I have stopped watching shows because I ask myself would I feel comfortable watching this with Messiah in the room. It's a serious gut check. I'm not perfect but we must work on being more holy and blend less with the world.

Many people say it has bible themes. Well ask yourself are the same kids who went to see lord of the rings, and harry potter and that play games with magic sitting next to you in the theatres. If they are you may find yourself there blending with the world. Satan has a flavor of sin for everyone and witchcraft is sold in everything from games, movies, books, and TV. Be Careful. Just trying to be a watchman here. If you see evil and say nothing the guilt remains on you. Shalom!

[shakira]

I think both sides are right, which sounds sort of double-minded, but to me it's not. The reason I don't like the Narnia Chronicles is because of the witch. However, the witch is not glorified as being good, like the Harry Potter books do. Actually, the witch represents the evil in the world casued by the first humans' disobedience.

That's a very good similie. I wish that there was no evil in the world, but I think it's very important for writers to acknowledge that yes it exists and yes many times it even seems mystical and cool and powerful, yet only God's power is good and pure and truly powerful.

So, yes witches are not good to become a role model, and yes it is good to see how evil, even when dressed up as a beautiful and powerful princess, is not worth waking in the end.

[LovingNeighbor]

so then as long as we see the evil as being bad we should watch it. Then if they make a movie about a man doing violent or even immoral acts like child molestation as long as he's the bad guy we should sit and watch it. like the new gay cowboy movie, as long as at the end the only bad guys were gay then we should go watch this kind of garbage. If poison was obvious it wouldn't be poison. witchcraft is a sin. I think one should be very careful not to watch movies with it in it. I think it's like Lot, if he was righteous it was OK for him to be around Evil because he knew it represented evil. but this was not the case, he was to leave because just being there it said vexed his righteous soul. Sorry but I just don't see the two mixing. That's like saying playing the game Diablo is good because your killing the wizards. as long as I play the role of fighter and not wizard I can play a magic promoting game because I'm killing the bad guy. If you open the door he will enter. You gaurd the gates of your mind.

[Rohanmdn]

If you are writting an analogy for a childrens book and you wish to present the gospel, unfortunately you cannot omit the enemy who caused man to sin. Who else could play the role of the enemy of our souls that we must fight against?

C.S. Lewis is trying to get across some very profound biblical realities. You need the savior represented by Aslan. And you also need that savior to fight against satan represented as a witch. How else do you explain to a child that evil exists without an evil villian?

How better to explain to a child that we are in a battle and need to fight a very present danger (evil) then allowing the battle to be waged and won by a child who defeats a witch that represent evil?

Yeshua would be unhappy if we glorified evil. But I 'm sure he isn't unhappy with us using our creative abilities for his kingdom. Creativity in preaching the Gospel isn't a sin.

If it were, then believers would be the most boring things on the planet! I believe we're capable of much more than that for the kingdom of G-d. WE believers should be able to replace hollywood. Our talent and creative ability should superceed what "the world" has to offer. We should be more attractive to bring the lost to Yeshua and glorify Him.
But when someone trys to accomplish this, we criticize them for their genius, ability, and G-d given talent.

We need to do much better than this.

[LovingNeighbor]

Shalom Rohanmdn,
I have to disagree with most of your comments. The doesn't focus on witchcraft, as a matter of fact it is mentioned a few times and to be "creative" do you think the Children of Israel remade idols and groves for plays to teach there children, or do you think they dressed men up as women to show them it was wrong. No you just plain don't do these things if you want to know about evil read the , more importantly learn about Good, and Good is not witchcraft and mythology. Imagination mixed with sin is a deadly combo. I wouldn't call C.S. Lewis a genius in the context of . Come out of her my People, not go into her but as long as you know all the things she is doing are wrong, Shall we move to sodom and Gomorah to teach our children what evil is. I think not. A lie will come packaged as truth and satan shall come as a messenger of light. let us not be fooled.Shalom

[R' Y'hoshua Moshe]

so then as long as we see the evil as being bad we should watch it. Then if they make a movie about a man doing violent or even immoral acts like child molestation as long as he's the bad guy we should sit and watch it.

Again, as already stated, this movie was not my favorite. But, I believe you are perhaps comparing apples to oranges as seen in your above statement. We read of many hideous acts committed in the TeNaKh by the enemy....are we to obstain from reading the TeNaKh or the Brit Chadashah as we see many wicked things being committed? Of course not, we can read about these things and learn about them without promoting them. Again, if a person is not sure what is contained in a book or what is featured in a movie....such a one is probably not the best person to judge it according to ....how would you know what to judge??

Shalom chaver,

Reuel