|
|
Post by LovingNeighbor on Feb 7, 2006 1:31:00 GMT -8
Shalom all, Well, there is a big difference between holoywood movies and the  , as a matter of fact according to that way of thinking then every immoral evil movie is ok because all sin is defined in should one then sit and watch a porno because it is mentioned as is sleeping with beasts but to think that justifies watching a movie like that is rediculous. The fact is I think most observant people should avoid movies about magic and sorcery. It's my own opinion but what place does light have with darkness, I just would never put the two together any more than I can see someone calling themselves Observant sitting down and watching a horror movie, they are just oil and water. But that is my opinion, people do it and when they do I just am taken back by it. As far as needing to see the movie, I don't think so. Just like the Veggie tales movie Lord of the Beans, I looked at it all of about 5 minutes to realize they are just selling a magic bean story to kids. I shut it off. I don't need to actually live in Sodom and Gommorah to know it's a bad place. As the scripture says if you see evil flee from it, if not you'll stay and be punished. Your even supposed to avoid the appearance of evil, which is exactly what I see this movie as. I think I've made my point though that people need to rethink what they put in their heads and what they partake in. I think justifying this as a good movie about bad magic is like saying I don't worship my christmas tree so it's ok. every man trys to justify his actions but to a child it is easy to see this is a bad movie. Avoid the snare and deception of witchcraft,scorcery,enchantments and similar things. Shalom |
|
|
|
Post by The 614th Mitzvot on Feb 8, 2006 13:40:58 GMT -8
In all truth it does not depict anyone good using witchcraft, but rather in the whole set of books the bad people will use sorcery as they us brute force or medicines. What's the difference between a medicine and a potion? A potion must be used with a special phrase or was made while someone spoke something over it and it is used to do something unnatural. But in truth, observant, shouldn't watch movies for three reasons. They allow us to see unexpected things that are not apparent in our daily lives i.e. ludeness, profanity, crudeness, excessive violence. Secondly, movies are not made by people observers therefore do not carry ideals of the and therefore of Mashiach. Finally, movies are simply a waste of money as there are better things one could invest one's time in. |
|
|
|
Post by Firestorm on Feb 8, 2006 16:20:52 GMT -8
"Avoid all appearance of evil." has got to be one of the most abused scriptures around. Everybody trots it out to push their own agenda and wave their finger in the face of anybody who sees things differently.
The Brothers Grimm didn't make me grow up to be a Satan worshipper and I doubt J.K. Rowling's books and movies will turn people away from the Lord anywhere near as effectively as many of the people who claim to serve Him.
I think all this fuss about Harry Potter, Narnia, LOTR etc. is a waste of energy and a distraction from the real crisis faced by the Body Of Believers. As a group we are materialistic, fractious, self-centred, self righteous and apathetic towards to plight of the weak and vulnerable. Our testimony stinks and it's bringing the Gospel into disrepute. We need to smarten up and get on with the real work.
|
|
|
|
Post by The 614th Mitzvot on Feb 9, 2006 14:31:23 GMT -8
That is a very important point which I would have delivered a little less angrily, but the point is made. We should indeed focus on what's important. And continue to do what's important and not simply talk.
|
|
|
|
Post by LovingNeighbor on Feb 10, 2006 22:35:20 GMT -8
Shalom all, 614 very well said about movies. Like TV they allow things into our minds that we may not have put there in our walk with YHWH. Firestorm, If your point was that we should focus on helping others. I disagree in that how can the blind help the blind. We should study and make ourselves suitable help meets for Messiah. How can he use us to go help someone out of the world when we are sitting next to them watching magic movies. Kadosh is what we are to be. Holy or set apart. in the world but not of the world. The point of this thread was to merely state the other side of this great deception/justification that I beleive people have put to this movie. Some whole congregations have been pushing all their members to go see this movie. Now do i think: A - it's because most christian churches who celebrate christmas and many other pagan pollutions finally are minded in their judgment. or B: they massivley accept it and promote it because it's just like the other Torahless things they accept like christmas and easter, where they mix good with bad and come up with great justifications to make it appear good. This is just my opinion and what a person does is for them to decide. But in hearing christians justify christmas when you explain it's pagan, and there is no santa claus, asking them why they are lying to their children who trust them, is awkwardly similar to people telling me how the good guys don't use the magic, and it's really a movie about magic. Sorry very weak argument. If it wasn't I would jump on board, but I just don't see it being harmless and even good for you and must warn my brothers, a commanment says i should warn my brother if I see him about to fall in a pit. Don't try and tell me how great it is, and sell me on it. It reminds me of an old freind I ran into I started hanging out to see what he and his family is up to. Well he started smoking Pot and insisted on telling me how great it was and I just didn't understand. Well It's not great except to those caught in it's trap. He lost a great job, and it has destroyed my nephews life. Both would tell you how great it is, but as one not justifying it or being caught up in it, I can tell you watch out for the pit. Shalom |
|
|
|
Post by R' Y'hoshua Moshe on Feb 12, 2006 12:35:35 GMT -8
Again, I believe the above is not a fair comparison. Nobody here is promoting pornography. Of course you would not know not seeing the movie, but I wouldn't say that this movie was simply about magic and sorcery. Can we not watch movies dealing with Biblical themes involving elements of magic and sorcery if it is relative to the story? I know of many movies made directly from Biblical events that encorporate many such elements that by your logic would be unacceptable. If a story, movie, or book shares a story about the wicked and the righteous and portrays the characters which are doing wickedness as unacceptable...I believe such stories are valuable for teaching Biblical truths and magnifying . Again, I would not necessarily reccommend this movie to people to go and watch, but I don't think that anyone is saying that the movie is just about a "good movie about bad magic". Furthermore, I believe this thread brings up valid points as to what is and what is not acceptable when watching movies and/or reading books. Perhaps even a separate thread should be dedicated to what is thought to be acceptable and what is not. In regards to your comparison with the Christmas tree...I don't believe it is a fair or logical comparison as employeeing the use of a Christmas tree is actually engaging in a practice that has it's roots in paganism. There is a difference of course between this and one simply observing the acts of the wicked within the frame work of a story. I think that most movies in Hollywood should not be viewed nor do they provide any edification...But, I also think that if one wishes to speak up and out about a particular subject...such a one should have enough knowledge to intelligently carry on a discussion regarding something that has the potential to mislead someone and not just share opinions based on un-confirmed facts (as many do). Otherwise, if someones does not know for sure what they are speaking of or what they are judging...they should probably keep their opinion private for all practial purposes. Harry Potter is a no-brainer as it glorifies the use of magic....just to be fair and just, I don't believe the same can be said for the movie, "Chronicles Of Narnia". Shalom aleychem chaverim, Reuel |
|
|
|
Post by LovingNeighbor on Feb 16, 2006 5:01:57 GMT -8
Shalom all, Well, it seems to say the movie isn't about magic, one could say harry potter wasn't about magic, because there is plots and other things, I just don't see the distinction other than what you exactly said that it is marketed to be a bridge between the christians and the pagans using those terms loosley. they figure how can we package a bible story in magic. I don't need to see any more of the movie then the trailer to tell it is not something appropriate for me as a observant man to watch. to not see this as a spreading of evil into a culture is crazy. The children of Israel were repeatedly told don't ake on the practices and beliefs of the Pagans ( like minataurs and mythology, magic, and sorcery) and yet somewhere this movie ends up with tons of christians(i can see) and even some observant to go see(harder to believe). We've been told we should know better. In one breathe someone will tell a family member that they are following things that are pagan and not have anything to do with those pagan things and then sitting down to watch a movie full of mythology and magic. It just doesn't make sense. What place does light have with darkeness. how can we be yoked to such things, can one draw near to the fire without being burned. scripture says this I beleive because to think your not affected by these things and that your above this is like Lot who lived in Sodom but it says that it vexed his righteous sould just being there, seeing these things even if he wasn't a partaker. Shal one watch will and grace just because the story is good. Or does looking upon the evil of homosexuality vex a persons soul. How many times have we heard it said in scripture to not look on evil and yet people plop down 6 bucks to watch such a thing. But I will not repeat myself. It is an encouraging word and warning to my fellow brothers in Messiah. Make your selve holy and don't be fooled by the wolves who creep into the flock to devour you and cause you to fall from your steadfastness. As for the pharisees if they say they are not blind their sin remains with them. may we all seek to find and eliminate the sin we allow in our lives. Shalom |
|
|
|
Post by Firestorm on Feb 16, 2006 8:09:23 GMT -8
;DBeing "in the world but not of the world" is another one of those verses which people have varying opinions about how to act upon. I don't think it's right to condemn anyone because they're in disagreement with your position.
"How can he use us to go help someone out of the world when we are sitting next to them watching magic movies?" Well, by being with them for one thing and by discussion afterwards for another. But all this is beside the point completely! NONE of my unbelieving friends have EVER said to me that they were prepared to admit that my belief may have merit based on anything other than something I DID such as being there at a time of crisis in their lives or offering some sort of practical assistance in time of need. Monte Judah was right on the money when he said people needed to talk less about their faith and live it more. The single biggest thing unbelievers look at in terms of your witness is how you relate to and treat those around you. This also was the point Yeshua was trying to make and that the Pharisees didn't get. ICor.13 sums it up perfectly.
|
|
|
|
Post by R' Y'hoshua Moshe on Feb 16, 2006 18:27:20 GMT -8
Loving neighbor, you haven't seen the movie...you don't even know what it is about other than it has some mythical creatures in it...not the best subject to debate for you.  Your statements are based on conjecture at best. Again, it was not my favorite movie. But, I don't believe it deserves the hell and brimstone speach that you are giving it. Has anybody here actually seen the movie and object to it? Any body else have any thoughts? Shalom, Reuel |
|
|
|
Post by LovingNeighbor on Feb 18, 2006 0:08:14 GMT -8
Shalom all,
Firestorm, I'm not condemning anyone. I'm talking about the principalities. Where you or anyone else fit in this choice is between you and Elohim. As I pointed out in my previous posts it is a warning to consider for those who may have not questioned it. Second is that it has got such huge promotion that I wanted to offer another view for people to consider. Remember when people are selling you something sometimes there is a reason. I don't own stock in the company, nor have i seen the movie so I am niether promoting it, nor justifying it because I like it. I am only giving my opinion based on the multiple trailers I've seen neither of which took me more than 10 seconds to see as greek mytholocical creatures are popping out with magical stuff, your basic dungeons and dragons stuff. Which I was into for some time so I know all about it.
Reuel, it already got the angelic promotion so my fire and brimstone is just balancing it out. I don't need to taste of it to know it's bad. That would be like saying I should watch broken mountain about the gay cowboys first before i judge it. maybe the gay guys are the bad guys. cmon... By not seeing it I can observe the substance of the movie unbaised because I don't care what the plot is when it's wrapped in magic and mythology. I don't care what the plot of lord of the rings is. I know I wouldn't want to go see it because it is full of witchcraft and that is the sin of rebellion. if one can justify watching it what is next. Sin has a way of slipping in the door you left open. I also agree with you firestorm your nonbelieving frinds do watch what you do. And that is why we should not do things that would confuse them as to what is holy and what is profane. I am not condemning those who disagree with me, but offering a diferent standard that if it makes you question your own actions and you become more righteous as a result great if your fine with your decisions and think there is no need to change that is your choice not mine. I am incharge only of my decisions. so if you fight my opinion it's not for you. If your encouraged by it HalleluYah!
|
|
|
|
Post by Blake on Feb 18, 2006 10:20:50 GMT -8
LovingNeighbor,
These two Movies the Chronicles of Narnia and the Lord of thr Rings were both praised and cherished books.
If you went and saw Narnia, you would see that it is allegory of the story of redemption.
It is an illustration of the gospel using mthological symbols.
John the Revelator even used mytical beasts like dragons to express certain truths.
Now the movies are not made by authors for they are long dead so they may not be in the same spirit as the books, but I can find no fault in any story which teaches gospel principles.
|
|
|
|
Post by LovingNeighbor on Feb 18, 2006 12:30:40 GMT -8
Shalom Blake, Dragons aren't mythological creatures because the bible talks about them. THey are real. Second every pagan religion has good and evil so to say that we should all start attending their religoins would violate . Repeatedly YHWH warns us not to learn the ways of the heathens. He doesn't say well as long as you realize they are bad or as long as it teaches good vs evil. he says don't do it; There is a game called Magic the gathering and in it there are white cards representing forces of good and black representing the bad, now you could play without using evil but the point is you shouldn't have anything to do with it. It amazes me how many poeple tout the auther as if they were moses or Yeshua like their works are so worthy we must not dishoner them.. please how about the words of YHWH who saved you telling you not to have anything to do with witchcraft. Lots wife was not even supposed to look upon Sodom but to go away from it and not as a dog return to its vomit. If this advice is too hard to hear pray and meditate to YHWH and ask him if this offering should be brought into his holy place. Shalom |
|
|
|
Post by CalledOut05 on Feb 19, 2006 2:49:18 GMT -8
One aspect of the film that bothered me was the scene where Aslan was resurrected and that altar was broken in half. I differ with CS Lewis in the simile. It was not the altar of sacrifice that was broken but the Temple curtain. BIG difference. I also detested the use of "Father Christmas" as a giver of gifts needed for the battle. Nothing good has come from that legend of Santa Claus. I heard a pastor refer to him as the "Christmas Clown." Nothing could be more true. He has become the secular symbol for a pagan holiday.
As to the brother's saying that the witch was not necessary, I was saved out of Satanism. NOTHING is more necessary to warn our children that there is a predator out in the world seeking their destruction. It is true that he gets way more credit than he deserves in that he becomes an excuse for sin. "The devil made me do it" will not fly on Judgement Day. Knowing the Devil like I do, he wants man to either not believe in him or focus on him so much they become obsessed. The Church has gone in both directions on this one. However, the need for that lesson of the predator is so apparent in this world. I know that I will tell my son that the devil is real and to educate him on the enemies tactics. I will point him to the Father and to commit his life in service to HIM, but also show him the need to be ready to defend himself.
|
|
|
|
Post by Firestorm on Feb 21, 2006 8:35:26 GMT -8
;D I agree we shouldn't confuse unbelievers about what is sacred & what's profane, but the things that confuse my unsaved friends about believers are the ones I mentioned in my previous posts.
I don't agree with every single thing C.S. Lewis ever said, and I think to say people hold him in the same regard as Moses or Yeshua is absurd.
I find it equally absurd to conclude that because he presents things in a way one may personally find offensive, he therefore had nothing of value to say. He lived in a time when atheism gripped the academic community and was saved out of atheism himself to become one of the most articulate witnesses for the faith of the 20th century. He presented the Gospel in a well thought out and mature manner that one rarely encounters on the shelves of Christian bookstores today.
So C.S. Lewis mentions Father Christmas in his writing! He and most other people living in England during his lifetime celebrated Christmas because anything else just wasn't on the radar! The Jewish community wasn't very visible (and when they were it didn't bode well considering the attitude of most non believers at the time), the Messianic movement, in its present form, was virtually unknown before his death in 1963 and many of us were either very small or not even born yet when he was writing. Why would an Anglican writing in Britain in the 1950's perceive things in the same manner as a Messianic believer in North America in 2006? His writing reflects the time period and dominant culture he lived in and it makes no sense at all to expect it would do anything else.
|
|
|
|
Post by LovingNeighbor on Feb 26, 2006 12:48:44 GMT -8
Shalom all, Firestorm, you said it is absurd to say people hold C.S. Lewis to such a regard as Moses. But then turned around and claimed he was one of the most articulate witnesses for faith in the 20th century. I think you see my point. The same way a Jew would refer to Moses as a leader of their faith and reference him and his credentials. Second point is just as you said his writing reflect his culture. There is a big difference between the culture and the . I don't expect him to write one way or another, but before all the Messianic people run to give their praise to this work full of witchcraft and pagan mythology and tradition they should measure it to . I expect the christians to get sucked in, but the observant folks should know better. According to what you said in your last part of your post we agree this is a piece reflecting the culture of the time(which was filled with paganism) and therefore has no place in a observant persons life. Lets heed the first warning Moshe gave to the children going into the land. He said don't learn their ways, or serve their gods. because a big problem with Israel is they tend to always want to mix paganism with their worship of YHWH and this movie according to people who support it is exactly that. They say they don't agree with the Christmas or Mythological stuff, and the magic is only the bad people but the message is good. Trust me his message is not to be mixed with these evil things. Shalom |
|
, as a matter of fact according to that way of thinking then every immoral evil movie is ok because all sin is defined in 
