Matt. 05 - 07

[Pioneer]

mpossoff said:

Jesus is saying he didn't come to detroy the Moral law BUT to fulfill.

I believe what He's saying is I came to establish, illustrate, and explain its highest meaning, both by my life and doctrine.

Wasn't the Moral Law nailed to the cross as well?

Marc

This is one of the doctrines I tried to warn you against!
Tell me how could the ()/law be what is nailed to the cross?
Ro 7:12 Wherefore the law/() is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good. Did that which is good, then, bring death to me? By no means!
Did you ever hear that Yeshua is the "Living "/word of God, that was nailed to the cross, along with the handwritten ordinances that were against us, i.e. The Angelic notes of every thing we have done, our sin record. Therefore Col 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
Then our repented sins will be remembered no more.

Shalom

[Chizuk Emunah]

I've done a lot of reading/studying recently and I believe I now have a new perspective on Col. 2:14.

Allow me to share.

This "handwriting of ordinances" was not the , for the is holy and perfect, and given to us as a standard of righteousness. Instead, these "ordinances" are the ordinances of sin and death. For if we are not freed by hope in Moshiach, then we are in bondage to the yetzer ra and doomed to be slaves to sin.

The other thing I want to say here is that there has been much misinterpretation of the word "fulfill." In this case Marc illustrated the meaning well. " ...establish, illustrate, and explain its highest meaning..." In no way, shape, or form was the abolished. If he had even said that he planned to abolish it, there would've been such an uproar that he probably would have been stoned to death. As that is the fate of a false prophet.

[Mark]

Hi Natanel,

Colossians 2 really deserves its own thread.. I'd get to it; but suddelnly I'm surrounded by small children taking off their pajamas asking for hot cocoa. You are correct. The Greek word translated "ordinances" in Colossians 2:14 is the Greek word "dogma" which is never used in Brit Chadesha nor Septuigent in connection with - it is always a decree or enactment that comes from man.

[Curt]

What happened to Curt?

His account is not disabled. Perhaps he decided to respect the forum rules regarding His anti- rhetoric.

Curt:

Golfnerd, I chose of my own free will not to write further on this specific subject! I notice you haven’t written yourself since Dec. 18th., 2006. If, you wish to correspond via e-mail concerning this subject I am willing to do so. I feel I have tried to respect the forum rules but my respect for God’s Word is greater. It is hard for me to emotionally want to write because I feel I’m being limited in my pursuit of the truth by forum rules designed to protect a doctrine. I don’t want to force truth on anyone just present it. Paul or Jesus never forced the truth on anyone.
Curt

[Golfnerd]

mpossoff said:

Jesus is saying he didn't come to detroy the Moral law BUT to fulfill.

I believe what He's saying is I came to establish, illustrate, and explain its highest meaning, both by my life and doctrine.

Wasn't the Moral Law nailed to the cross as well?

Marc

NONE of the Law was nailed to the Cross...it was the penalty...the indictment against us for sin that was nailed to the Cross.

Say you get caught speeding in a school zone. You go to court and pay the ticket. Since you "paid the price" is the law then abolished?

Here's a very sobering verse for those who advocate that the is done away with....

(Heb 10:28 NASB) Anyone who has set aside the Law of Moses dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses.

When one offers to be one of the two witnesses needed, it tends to bring things to a screeching halt.

[Curt]

Golfnerd,

If you wish to continue this discussion via e-mail my address is:

[Edited by Admin.][/color]

Curt

[R' Y'hoshua Moshe]

Curt,

You have been warned on numerous occasions about trying to remove people from a observant life in Messiah. It is a clear violation of the forum guidelines. The guidelines exist to protect people from false teachers and prophets just as gives us instruction to do. If people honestly wish to search out the truth with us, that is one thing. But, you clearly are on a mission to simply cause people to doubt the practicing of Adonai's in their lives. This was your final warning. Your account has been disabled until further notice.

May Adonai lead you to His truth (Tehellim/Psalm 119:142),

Reuel

[P.S. Please note that anyone that has questions about traditional anti- views and teachings are free to ask. It is something I want discussed here on the forum. The only objection is when the individual's only goal is to remove people from a life of observance. Such a one has not come here to learn, only to remove people from the path of righteousness.]

[Mark]

Messiah sat down at Mount Olivet and began to teach all the people who had gathered to Him. As far as we know, this was His first opportunity after receiving the endorsement of John the Baptizer: whose message was singular: "Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand."

A lot has been said about Messiah’s message. It has been picked apart with every individual phrase scrutinized to infinitum. Yet, if we are to look at the whole message and distill it down to a single statement, what was Messiah saying?

The "beatitudes" (Matthew 5:3-10) is loved and memorized by a host of believers, yet, few consider the thrust of His message. The poor in Spirit (the humble), the mournful, the meek, the merciful, the pure-hearted, and the peacemakers are all considered "blessed" (well-favored with God or in good fortune). Some blessing! Built upon this description of the "blessed" is the promise that the world will "revile you and persecute you and say all manner of evil against you…."

He goes on to describe the people of Israel in terms in which they are familiar. Israelites were known around the world as "the salt of the earth". Salt from Israel was known and valued all over the world for preserving and healing properties. Yet, the people responsible for mining the salt were not held in any esteem. It was slaves’ work: hard, hot and painful. In this manner the Jewish people had come to be known (salt miners). To be called "the salt of the earth" was not a glamorous title.

More gratifying was the idea of being the Light of the World. This was an idiomatic title that represented the Hanukkah Menorah: more specifically, the rededication of the people to live in obedience to the Word of God.

From there, He launches into a description of what it means to truly walk in obedience, as opposed to the hypocrisy and double-standards seen in the religious culture.

Then He moves on to something absolutely fascinating. He says, in reference to all of their hopes and needs, "trust God to provide for you."

These are not a collection of individual mini-sermonettes, packaged together for our convenience. These are not a bunch of random ideas. He is speaking to a single audience with a singular message for them.

"Stop whining! Walk in the empowerment you already have as the chosen people of God."

The people of Israel had been long awaiting their Messiah. They had struggled under the oppression of foreign rulers for generations. They had heard the stories of the prophets of old and the wonderful power they had in the fullness of God. They sighed wistfully and thought to themselves, "Wouldn’t it be nice…"

Are you feeling persecuted? Are you feeling down-trodden or discouraged? Messiah said, "Good!" Those are the feelings that you experience when you are headed in the right direction. Are people treating you poorly because of your stand as a living disciple of Messiah? The Christian Church doesn’t seem to know much about this. They have grown comfortable in their social dominance. But, put on a kippah and start calling our Messiah "Yeshua" and see what happens. You’ll find that you are hated by all nations for His name’s sake.

"You are the salt of the earth." You’re not hoping to be some day or wishing you maybe could be: you’re it! You are the saltiness of life and health that the world is looking for. Either your saltiness is strong or good-for-nothing, that’s your choice. Stop looking for someone else to validate your worth. Either be salty or lay down on the path so that people at least have something to walk on.

"You are the Light of the World." You’re not sitting in your pews waiting and hoping for the light to come on: you’re it. "Let your light so shine therefore before men that they may see your good works and glorify the Father who is in heaven."

Messiah poses the question (paraphrased), "Are you going to follow God or are you going to play games?" If you are committed to live in obedience, honestly pursuing a right relationship with God, He has at your disposal every resource for every need you could possibly have. If you want to play games, you’re in good company. That’s just the way we live: religious, secular or otherwise.

Messiah’s call to His disciples that day echoes for us here in perfect timeliness: stop looking for light and waiting for salt. Determine today to be the salt and light that He has called us each to be. He’ll take care of the rest.

[jimmie]

Rom. 10:4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

I Pet 1:9 Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.

If Christ ended the law, then didn’t he also end faith by granting salvation?