Matt. 05 - 07

[Curt]

Mark,

I accept your explanation. I knew it came from your strong belief. I know it seems to some that a doing away of any part of the law seems disrespectful. It is difficult for me to argue the point with someone who wants to keep all of what they believe is God's law. It is much easier to argue with someone who doesn't want to keep any of God's law.

I'm not concerned with those who are seeking to understand the Scriptures one at a time. The folks whom I appeal to are the ones who argue that Scripture (one or the other) is not for them- that they don't have to obey. They are holding their relationship with Adonai at arm's length

Your right, there is many more people who reject scripture in any form and they need to be reached. I like to reach them also but it is on a different level than here on this web site. It seems most on this web site are feeding on solid food of scripture rather than just beginning with the milk of scripture. So in addition I like to do as the Bereans did and test every scripture to see if it was so.

Acts 17:11 (New Kings James Version)


11 These were more fair-minded than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness, and searched the Scriptures daily to find out whether these things were so

I also apologize for taking so long. I am worse than anyone at that. I did see that others were also encouraged to voice their opinion.

I will respond to your other comments as soon as I'm able.

[Ashirah]

Could it be that Yeshua came to restore to the way it was before it became corrupted by the 'traditions of men'. Did Yeshua come to lighten the load and make it possible for everyone to do what was given before?

[Pioneer]

ashirah said:

Could it be that Yeshua came to restore to the way it was before it became corrupted by the 'traditions of men'. Did Yeshua come to lighten the load and make it possible for everyone to do what was given before?

Welcome ashirah, Yeah, just about, He is the breechmaker that lets the kingdom go to all the nations!

[R' Y'hoshua Moshe]

He did a little bit of both. In some cases He lightened the load where it didn't need to be too heavy. But, in same cases He restored the load to it's proper weight (if you know what I mean).

Shalom chaverim,

Reuel

[Nachshon]

Matthew 5:17-18 is probably the most consistently mistranslated passage in Scripture. As of yet, I have found one translation from the Greek that even begins to get it right; the NEB. The KJV has it as, "Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled." What this translation does not reveal is that there are two different words translated 'fulfill.' This difference is also seen in the ancient Aramaic texts. The first word translated "fulfill" is 'pleroo' meaning 'fulfill' or, in the Hebrew sense, give a greater meaning to, or properly interpret. In the second instance it is the term 'ginomahi,' quite a different word. The illustrious Authorised Version translates this word 'be' 255 times, 'come to pass' 82 times, 'be made' 69 times, etc., etc., etc. It only translates it 'fulfill' thrice. Other versions (NEB, ALTB, etc) properly translate it 'happen' or 'occur' two or three of those three times. This does not mean 'fulfill' but 'occur.' He is saying that one yood or one tittel will not pass from the until everything that is going to happen has happened.
For those that may be Aramaic primacists, the first term in Aramaic is the term for 'fulfill' and the second is literally 'turn,' an idiom for 'happen' or 'occur.'

Shalom,
David

[R' Y'hoshua Moshe]

Shalom brother and thank you for sharing!

I think that the context here is also important. In Rabbinic writings the phrase "destroying the " is used to describe someone whom misinterprets and issues a bad teaching from it. In this case when Yeshua says that He is in fact not doing this, but that He is coming to complete it, fulfill it, or what you mentioned, "give a greater meaning to, or properly interpret.", I believe this is the accurate interpretation of this passage. But, I think your interpretation is also relevant.

Blessings in Messiah,

Reuel

[Curt]

He is saying that one yood or one tittel will not pass from the until everything that is going to happen has happened.

Curt: I feel is not the right word to use here. After all the contains two seperate sets of law. God's Law (Ten Commandments) and Moses Law. Jesus prefaces which law in verses Matt. 5:21-37 and it's called the Ten Commandments.

This difference is also seen in the ancient Aramaic texts. The first word translated "fulfill" is 'pleroo' meaning 'fulfill' or, in the Hebrew sense, give a greater meaning to, or properly interpret. In the second instance it is the term 'ginomahi,' quite a different word. The illustrious Authorised Version translates this word 'be' 255 times, 'come to pass' 82 times, 'be made' 69 times, etc., etc., etc. It only translates it 'fulfill' thrice. Other versions (NEB, ALTB, etc) properly translate it 'happen' or 'occur' two or three of those three times. This does not mean 'fulfill' but 'occur [/quoteJ
Jesus fulfilled the Ten Commandment Law so as to be perfect and as an example for us to do so. Jesus fulfilled Moses LAW so we would not have to in the future. Both actually occured.

[messimom]

Curt: I feel is not the right word to use here. After all the contains two seperate sets of law. God's Law (Ten Commandments) and Moses Law. Jesus prefaces which law in verses Matt. 5:21-37 and it's called the Ten Commandments.

Lately, I have been reading along just enjoying the posts and knowledge I have gained from those more learned from me. Anything I have personally disagreed with I have said nothing about, deferring to those who can put it so much more eloquently. However, this time I feel compelled to disagree based on my limited knowledge. Maybe I'm wrong, but I'm going to present my understanding for consideration.

I know many of you simply look up the verses presented and go from there, but I like to have the verses included for easier discussion, so bear with me please.


21: "You have heard that it was said to the men of old, `You shall not kill; and whoever kills shall be liable to judgment.'
22: But I say to you that every one who is angry with his brother shall be liable to judgment; whoever insults his brother shall be liable to the council, and whoever says, `You fool!' shall be liable to the hell of fire.

Do not murder--comandment $#6. Punishment for commandment number six listed.....not there. The punishment given by Yeshua here ( judgment by council/hell of fire) is listed nowhere in the Ten commandments, it is listed in the "Mosaic laws"

23: So if you are offering your gift at the altar, and there remember that your brother has something against you,
24: leave your gift there before the altar and go; first be reconciled to your brother, and then come and offer your gift.

The altar sacrifices are only listed and detailed in the Mosaic laws. The ten commandments have nothing to say about the sacrificial system.

25: Make friends quickly with your accuser, while you are going with him to court, lest your accuser hand you over to the judge, and the judge to the guard, and you be put in prison;
26: truly, I say to you, you will never get out till you have paid the last penny.

Again, only spoken of in the Mosaic laws

27: "You have heard that it was said, `You shall not commit adultery.'
28: But I say to you that every one who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart.
29: If your right eye causes you to sin, pluck it out and throw it away; it is better that you lose one of your members than that your whole body be thrown into hell.
30: And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away; it is better that you lose one of your members than that your whole body go into hell.

This seems to me to just be commentary on the 10th commandment.

31: "It was also said, `Whoever divorces his wife, let him give her a certificate of divorce.'
32: But I say to you that every one who divorces his wife, except on the ground of unchastity, makes her an adulteress; and whoever marries a divorced woman commits adultery.

Again, purely Mosaic laws.

33: "Again you have heard that it was said to the men of old, `You shall not swear falsely, but shall perform to the Lord what you have sworn.'
34: But I say to you, Do not swear at all, either by heaven, for it is the throne of God,
35: or by the earth, for it is his footstool, or by Jerusalem, for it is the city of the great King.
36: And do not swear by your head, for you cannot make one hair white or black.
37: Let what you say be simply `Yes' or `No'; anything more than this comes from evil.

And, again, expounding one of the ten commandments.

So, Yeshua is not only speaking of the Ten Commandments here. He is speaking of , which in my opinion is the Ten Commandments, and everything following is commentary. Detailed instructions. I don't think they are seperable. I don't think it can be said that Yeshua was saying he merely needed to fulfill the Ten Commandments before things were finished. What about the prophecies about Him, that only He Himself could fulfill for the plan of redemption? None of those are listed in the Ten Commandments. And what about Yom Kippur and Sukkoth? If Yeshua has already fulfilled the full ten commandments, then if I understand you right, Yeshua could have come back by now, everything would be accomplished. Yet, it is parts of the , the "Mosaic laws" which have not yet been accomplished. By your reckoning, all of the yots and tittles, not to mention everything else, have been done away with and you might as well throw out the book of Revelation and anything else occurring after the resurrection and assention, because all is finished.

The is the ten commandments expounded along with history showing how things went when was being followed and not being followed, and prophecy to help us to know what is to come (and don't let us forget the pretty poetry). The Mosaic laws are YHVH's laws and Yeshua was bound by all of them to fulfill the requirements of the perfect sacrifice, the paschal lamb and atoning sacrifice....neither of which are mentioned in the ten commandments, but both being YHVH's laws.

Shalom,

Messimom

[Pioneer]

messimom said:

Curt: I feel is not the right word to use here. After all the contains two seperate sets of law. God's Law (Ten Commandments) and Moses Law. Jesus prefaces which law in verses Matt. 5:21-37 and it's called the Ten Commandments.

Lately, I have been reading along just enjoying the posts and knowledge I have gained from those more learned from me. Anything I have personally disagreed with I have said nothing about, deferring to those who can put it so much more eloquently. However, this time I feel compelled to disagree based on my limited knowledge. Maybe I'm wrong, but I'm going to present my understanding for consideration.

I know many of you simply look up the verses presented and go from there, but I like to have the verses included for easier discussion, so bear with me please.


21: "You have heard that it was said to the men of old, `You shall not kill; and whoever kills shall be liable to judgment.'
22: But I say to you that every one who is angry with his brother shall be liable to judgment; whoever insults his brother shall be liable to the council, and whoever says, `You fool!' shall be liable to the hell of fire.

Do not murder--comandment $#6. Punishment for commandment number six listed.....not there. The punishment given by Yeshua here ( judgment by council/hell of fire) is listed nowhere in the Ten commandments, it is listed in the "Mosaic laws"

23: So if you are offering your gift at the altar, and there remember that your brother has something against you,
24: leave your gift there before the altar and go; first be reconciled to your brother, and then come and offer your gift.

The altar sacrifices are only listed and detailed in the Mosaic laws. The ten commandments have nothing to say about the sacrificial system.

25: Make friends quickly with your accuser, while you are going with him to court, lest your accuser hand you over to the judge, and the judge to the guard, and you be put in prison;
26: truly, I say to you, you will never get out till you have paid the last penny.

Again, only spoken of in the Mosaic laws

27: "You have heard that it was said, `You shall not commit adultery.'
28: But I say to you that every one who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart.
29: If your right eye causes you to sin, pluck it out and throw it away; it is better that you lose one of your members than that your whole body be thrown into hell.
30: And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away; it is better that you lose one of your members than that your whole body go into hell.

This seems to me to just be commentary on the 10th commandment.

31: "It was also said, `Whoever divorces his wife, let him give her a certificate of divorce.'
32: But I say to you that every one who divorces his wife, except on the ground of unchastity, makes her an adulteress; and whoever marries a divorced woman commits adultery.

Again, purely Mosaic laws.

33: "Again you have heard that it was said to the men of old, `You shall not swear falsely, but shall perform to the Lord what you have sworn.'
34: But I say to you, Do not swear at all, either by heaven, for it is the throne of God,
35: or by the earth, for it is his footstool, or by Jerusalem, for it is the city of the great King.
36: And do not swear by your head, for you cannot make one hair white or black.
37: Let what you say be simply `Yes' or `No'; anything more than this comes from evil.

And, again, expounding one of the ten commandments.

So, Yeshua is not only speaking of the Ten Commandments here. He is speaking of , which in my opinion is the Ten Commandments, and everything following is commentary. Detailed instructions. I don't think they are seperable. I don't think it can be said that Yeshua was saying he merely needed to fulfill the Ten Commandments before things were finished. What about the prophecies about Him, that only He Himself could fulfill for the plan of redemption? None of those are listed in the Ten Commandments. And what about Yom Kippur and Sukkoth? If Yeshua has already fulfilled the full ten commandments, then if I understand you right, Yeshua could have come back by now, everything would be accomplished. Yet, it is parts of the , the "Mosaic laws" which have not yet been accomplished. By your reckoning, all of the yots and tittles, not to mention everything else, have been done away with and you might as well throw out the book of Revelation and anything else occurring after the resurrection and assention, because all is finished.

The is the ten commandments expounded along with history showing how things went when was being followed and not being followed, and prophecy to help us to know what is to come (and don't let us forget the pretty poetry). The Mosaic laws are YHVH's laws and Yeshua was bound by all of them to fulfill the requirements of the perfect sacrifice, the paschal lamb and atoning sacrifice....neither of which are mentioned in the ten commandments, but both being YHVH's laws.

Shalom,

Messimom

deferring to those who can put it so much more eloquently.
You don't need to defer, you did it quite eloquently, even if I do say so myself!
It is the "Word of God", repeat Mt. 4:4!
Shalom

[Nachshon]

I think is the right word to use here...since is the Aramaic word used. Also, in Jeremiah 31 YHWH claims ownership of the , and throughout reading the it is clear to whom it belongs. In Romans 10:6-8, as well as John 1:14, it is made clear that Yeshua is actually living . I do not make any distinction between the Ten Commandments and the other commandments that YHWH has given us to live by, with the sole exception that the Ten are the chief among them.

Shalom,
David

[Curt]

this time I feel compelled to disagree based on my limited knowledge. Maybe I'm wrong, but I'm going to present my understanding for consideration.

Curt: None of us understand everything. We’ve all made mistakes in the past including myself. The key to correct interpretation is to let the Bible interpret.

I

know many of you simply look up the verses presented and go from there, but I like to have the verses included for easier discussion, so bear with me please.

Curt: You’ll be glad to know I usually do the same as you, include the verses. I was rushed for time because I use a computer at one of the local colleges.

Do not murder--comandment $#6. Punishment for commandment number six listed.....not there.

Curt: Eternal punishment for breaking the ten commandments can be found in other scriptures. Jesus didn’t have to give the punishment for the sixth commandment in the Ten Commandments but He did give it. It’s the judgement of hell fire.
Matthew 5:21-22
21 “You have heard that it was said to those of old, ‘You shall not murder, and whoever murders will be in danger of the judgment.’ 22 But I say to you that whoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment. And whoever says to his brother, ‘Raca!’ shall be in danger of the council. But whoever says, ‘You fool!’ shall be in danger of hell fire.


Keepers of God’s commandments receive a reward of eternal life and breakers of God’s commandments receive the punishment of eternal death. It is understood by other scripture that God’s judgement is to give the saints eternal life and the wicked to be consumed by God’s fire and be no more. The saints are those who keep God’s commandments.

Revelation 14:12
12 Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.

The punishment given by Yeshua here ( judgment by council/hell of fire) is listed nowhere in the Ten commandments, it is listed in the "Mosaic laws"

Curt: Jesus is contrasting the difference between the Ten Commandments and Moses Law. Jesus didn’t give hell fire as one of the punishments for calling his brother Raca (worthless), He said the person would have to answer to the council. In other words be sued for libel, a temporary punishment. Whereas Jesus expanded the sixth commandment meaning of murder to include calling your brother a fool. The punishment for calling him a fool was eternal (hellfire). Because Moses Law is temporary the punishment is temporary and because God’s Ten Commandment Law is eternal the punishment is eternal. Jesus is showing there are two very different sets of laws with different punishments.

23: So if you are offering your gift at the altar, and there remember that your brother has something against you,
24: leave your gift there before the altar and go; first be reconciled to your brother, and then come and offer your gift.

The altar sacrifices are only listed and detailed in the Mosaic laws. The ten commandments have nothing to say about the sacrificial system.

Curt: The main point of Matthew 5:23-24 isn’t about alter sacrifices it is about God including anger without a cause as a part of the sixth commandment. The main subject is “something against your brother” (anger, hatred) not alter sacrifices. The reason altar sacrifices are only listed and detailed in the Mosiac Law is because it is not a part of the Ten Commandments it is a part of Moses Law. You are literally making my point there are two distinct sets of law.

25: Make friends quickly with your accuser, while you are going with him to court, lest your accuser hand you over to the judge, and the judge to the guard, and you be put in prison;
26: truly, I say to you, you will never get out till you have paid the last penny.

Again, only spoken of in the Mosaic laws

Curt: You left out the most important verse Matt. 5:24 The main subject is being reconciled . Get rid of your anger and hatred because it has more than temporary punishment potential under Moses Law it has eternal punishment of breaking God’s sixth commandment. God has expanded the sixth commandment from murder to anger without cause and hatred.

Matthew 5:24
24 leave your gift there before the altar, and go your way. First be reconciled to your brother, and then come and offer your gift.

Hebrews 10:28-29 28 Anyone who has rejected Moses’ law dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29 Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace?

27: "You have heard that it was said, `You shall not commit adultery.'
28: But I say to you that every one who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart.
29: If your right eye causes you to sin, pluck it out and throw it away; it is better that you lose one of your members than that your whole body be thrown into hell.
30: And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away; it is better that you lose one of your members than that your whole body go into hell.

This seems to me to just be commentary on the 10th commandment.

Curt: I believe it is more than just a commentary. The same thing that was happening in the sixth commandment is also happening in the seventh commandment. The seventh commandment has been enlarged to include more than the physical act of adultery. Adultery now includes the lust of the mind.

31: "It was also said, `Whoever divorces his wife, let him give her a certificate of divorce.'
32: But I say to you that every one who divorces his wife, except on the ground of unchastity, makes her an adulteress; and whoever marries a divorced woman commits adultery.

Again, purely Mosaic laws.

Curt: Jesus is saying this is what Moses Law says but I tell you something different. In other words Jesus is contrasting the difference between Moses Law and God’s Ten Commandment Law. Adultery and unchasity is the seventh commandment not one of Moses Laws. Jesus’s main subject is adultery, the Seventh Commandment. Jesus is contrasting the difference between the Mosiac Law (certificate of divorce) and the Ten Commandment Law of adultery. Unchasity is adultery. Jesus is saying Moses Laws says” that” but I tell you” this”.

33: "Again you have heard that it was said to the men of old, `You shall not swear falsely, but shall perform to the Lord what you have sworn.'
34: But I say to you, Do not swear at all, either by heaven, for it is the throne of God,
35: or by the earth, for it is his footstool, or by Jerusalem, for it is the city of the great King.
36: And do not swear by your head, for you cannot make one hair white or black.
37: Let what you say be simply `Yes' or `No'; anything more than this comes from evil.

And, again, expounding one of the ten commandments.

Curt: Exactly, Jesus is talking about the Ten commandments when He says not one jot or tittle will pass from the Law. He has expanded the ninth commandment, one of the ten commandments from bearing false witness against your neighbor to not swearing by heaven, earth or Jerusalem Jesus is speaking of the Ten Commandments when He is making the point not one jot or tittle will pass from the Law. When He speaks of Moses Law it is as in contrast to God’s commandments.

So, Yeshua is not only speaking of the Ten Commandments here. He is speaking of , which in my opinion is the Ten Commandments, and everything following is commentary.

Curt: Jesus is speaking of the Ten Commandments when He says “not one jot or one tittle will pass from the law. When He speaks of Moses Law it is as in contrast to God’s Ten commandments. The includes both God’s Ten Commandment Law and Moses Law.

Detailed instructions. I don't think they are seperable.

Curt: What you call detailed instructions is contrasting the two sets of laws and Jesus expanding the meaning of the ten Commandments.. Jesus talking about Moses Law is necessary for people to understand the difference between the two sets of laws

.

I don't think it can be said that Yeshua was saying he merely needed to fulfill the Ten Commandments before things were finished

Curt: What Jesus was saying in this text was none of the Ten Commandment Law will pass away and He also enlarged it. But Jesus did fulfill the Ten Commandment Law perfectly during His life because He was perfect. He also fulfilled Moses Law to the point of His life death, resurrection and ascension so noone after Him would have to. Jesus said in Matthew 5:18 “till all is fulfilled” that means more than the Ten Commandments and Moses Laws.

Matthew 5:18
18 For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled

Matthew 5:48 Therefore you shall be perfect, just as your Father in heaven is perfect.

Psalm 19: 7 The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul;
The testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple;

Curt: Moses Law isn’t perfect. It is weak and unprofitable
.
Hebrews 7: Hebrews 7:18-19
18 For on the one hand there is an annulling of the former commandment because of its weakness and unprofitableness, 19 for the law made nothing perfect; on the other hand, there is the bringing in of a better hope, through which we draw near to God

What about the prophecies about Him, that only He Himself could fulfill for the plan of redemption? None of those are listed in the Ten Commandments.

Curt: Why, do you think they should be? You can to go to other scripture to see fulfillment. It can be seen from the Ten Commandments that Jesus fulfilled perfection. The Ten Commandments is the character of God. Jesus was God. Jesus was perfect. The law is perfect.

And what about Yom Kippur and Sukkoth?

Curt: Yom Kippur or the (Day of Atonement) and Sukkoth (the Harvest) doesn’t occur until Jesus returns. It’s in the future.

Matthew 13:39
39 The enemy who sowed them is the devil, the harvest is the end of the age, and the reapers are the angels.
Jesus fulfilled the Passover. The Passover was a ceremonial Sabbath that came on the fourteenth day of the first month. Jesus died on Passover fulfilling Passover.

John 1: 29 The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him, and said, “Behold! The Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world!

Curt: The Wave Sheaf Offering always occurs the third day following Passover. A sheaf of the firstfruits of the harvest was brought to the priest. Jesus fulfilled the wave sheaf offering by rising on the third day following Passover.

1 Corinthians 15:20-23
20 But now Christ is risen from the dead, and has become the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. 21 For since by man came death, by Man also came the resurrection of the dead. 22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive. 23 But each one in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who are Christ’s at His coming.

Curt: Moses Law also had the feast of Tabernacles. Once a year you were required to build a tent and sit in it for one week. The week ended with a water ceremony. Jesus taught He was the true water of life.

John 4:14
14 but whoever drinks of the water that I shall give him will never thirst. But the water that I shall give him will become in him a fountain of water springing up into everlasting life.
”
Curt: Jesus also fulfilled circumcision so we would not have to.

Galatians 5:6
6 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision avails anything, but faith working through love.

Colossians 2:11
11 In Him you were also circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, by putting off the body of the sins of the flesh, by the circumcision of Christ,

Romans 2:28-29 28 For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh; 29 but he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the Spirit, not in the letter; whose praise is not from men but from God.

If Yeshua has already fulfilled the full ten commandments, then if I understand you right, Yeshua could have come back by now, everything would be accomplished.

Curt: Fulfilling the Ten Commandments only proved He was perfect and was God. There is more to fulfill than the Ten Commandments. For example the gospel must be preached to all nations and tongues and then the end will come.

Revelation 14:6
6 Then I saw another angel flying in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach to those who dwell on the earth—to every nation, tribe, tongue, and people—

Yet, it is parts of the , the "Mosaic laws" which have not yet been accomplished.

Curt: Jesus has accomplished all parts that relate to His life, death, resurrection and ascenscion to heaven. Anything not accomplished will occur in the future.

By your reckoning, all of the yots and tittles, not to mention everything else, have been done away with and you might as well throw out the book of Revelation and anything else occurring after the resurrection and assention, because all is finished.

Curt: Those are your conclusions not mine. I clearly said not one yot or tittle will be removed from the Ten Commandments. Your confusing the Book of Revelation with the Ten Commandments. I never said all was finished.

The Mosaic laws are YHVH's laws and Yeshua was bound by all of them to fulfill the requirements of the perfect sacrifice, the paschal lamb and atoning sacrifice....neither of which are mentioned in the ten commandments, but both being YHVH's laws

The Mosaic laws are Moses laws. That’s why it is called Moses Law. Jesus was bound by Moses Law and He fulfilled it to the point in time He was able so we wouldn’t have to. You have to look at other scripture to see the perfect sacrifice, the paschal lamb and atoning sacrifice. Never-the-less He wouldn’t have been the perfect sacrifice if He hadn’t kept the perfect law the Ten commandments. The Ten Commandments is God’s Law. Sin is the transgression of the Ten Commandments. Jesus’s perfect sacrifice was for this sin.

God’s Ten Commandments

Curt: 1 Spoken by God Himself
Exodus 20:1
Exodus 20:1
1 And God spoke all these words, saying:
Exodus 20:1-17 is the Ten Commandments
2. Was written by God
Exodus 31:18
Exodus 31:18
18 And when He had made an end of speaking with him on Mount Sinai, He gave Moses two tablets of the Testimony, tablets of stone, written with the finger of God.

Exodus 32:16
16 Now the tablets were the work of God, and the writing was the writing of God engraved on the tablets

Moses Law

Curt: 1. Spoken by Moses

Exodus 24:3
3 So Moses came and told the people all the words of the LORD and all the judgments. And all the people answered with one voice and said, “All the words which the LORD has said we will do.”

Curt: 2. Written by Moses

Exodus 24:4
4 And Moses wrote all the words of the LORD. And he rose early in the morning, and built an altar at the foot of the mountain, and twelve pillars according to the twelve tribes of Israel

Curt: Written in a book

Exodus 24: 4 And Moses wrote all the words of the LORD. And he rose early in the morning, and built an altar at the foot of the mountain, and twelve pillars according to the twelve tribes of Israel.
Exodus 24:7 7 Then he took the Book of the Covenant and read in the hearing of the people. And they said, “All that the LORD has said we will do, and be obedient.”

[Mark]

If the Law of Moses and the Law of God are two different sets of Law, is not Deuteronomy 4:2 a contradiction?

You shall not add to the word that I command you, nor take from it, that you may keep the commandments of the LORD your God that I command you.
(Deuteronomy 4:2)

[Curt]

If the Law of Moses and the Law of God are two different sets of Law, is not Deuteronomy 4:2 a contradiction?

You shall not add to the word that I command you, nor take from it, that you may keep the commandments of the LORD your God that I command you.
(Deuteronomy 4:2)

Curt: No, because Moses is telling men not to add or take away. Moses is also speaking of the commandments of God.

Deuteronomy 4:2
2 You shall not add to the word which I command you, nor take from it, that you may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you

Curt: If you read on in Deuteronomy 4:12-13 you also see which commandments Moses is speaking of.

Deuteronomy 4:12-13
12 And the LORD spoke to you out of the midst of the fire. You heard the sound of the words, but saw no form; you only heard a voice. 13 So He declared to you His covenant which He commanded you to perform, the Ten Commandments; and He wrote them on two tablets of stone

Curt: It is God who authorized the adding of Moses Law 400 years after the already existing Ten Commandments. God added it because of transgressions (sin)


Galatians 3:17 17 And this I say, that the law, which was four hundred and thirty years later, cannot annul the covenant that was confirmed before by God in Christ, that it should make the promise of no effect

Curt: God added it because of transgressions (sin)

Galatians 3:19
19 What purpose then does the law serve? It was added because of transgressions, till the Seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was appointed through angels by the hand of a mediator


Curt: Moses Law was added till the Seed should come (Jesus) God clearly says in Galatians Moses Law was only to last until Jesus came.


Galatians 3:19
19 What purpose then does the law serve? It was added because of transgressions, till the Seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was appointed through angels by the hand of a mediator

Curt: Moses Law specifically ended when Jesus was nailed to the cross.

Colossians 2:14
14 having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us, which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross.

So you see it isn't this man who has added or taken away but God Himself.

[Pioneer]

Curt; I almost believe you when you say God can change !

Yes, he could, has the ability, he is all powerful. But the most profound situation is He said his is perfect, He is perfect, He is Just. To give an impossibe edict to the Children of Israel only to change his edict to Christians, is far, far from a just God.

I'm sure you have heard this before, but it bears repeating, The was nailed to the cross, but not the book of the Law, the living Word of God//Yeshua. The handwritings of ordinances that were against us is the bill of trespasses, handwritten by an Angel who records your every word and trangression, were taken to the cross by our savior, those were the false charges he took upon himself for your and my benefit!

God is unchanging! So you see I can't see how you can have him change.

[messimom]

Curt it looks as if you are using Galations out of context here. It is made perfectly clear in the beginning of the epistle that he is talking to a bunch of people who are again putting themselves under the curse of the law for salvation.

Galations 1: O foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you, before whose eyes Jesus Christ was publicly portrayed as crucified?
2: Let me ask you only this: Did you receive the Spirit by works of the law, or by hearing with faith?
3: Are you so foolish? Having begun with the Spirit, are you now ending with the flesh?

Therefore, it follows that the rest of the letter all he is addressing is the use of the law to justify righteousness and salvation. Thanks to translation, it does look later on as if he is dismissing the law altogether, but that is not the case.

10: For all who rely on works of the law are under a curse; for it is written, "Cursed be every one who does not abide by all things written in the book of the law, and do them."

(my emphasis added)

Curt: It is God who authorized the adding of Moses Law 400 years after the already existing Ten Commandments. God added it because of transgressions (sin)

Galatians 3:17 17 And this I say, that the law, which was four hundred and thirty years later, cannot annul the covenant that was confirmed before by God in Christ, that it should make the promise of no effect

In Gal 3:17 he is talking of the covenant with Avraham. The Ten Commandments were given to Moses within the same time period as the . (Exodus 20:1-22)(Deuteronomy 4:13-14)

6: Thus Abraham "believed God, and it was reckoned to him as righteousness."
7: So you see that it is men of faith who are the sons of Abraham.
8: And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel beforehand to Abraham, saying, "In you shall all the nations be blessed."
9: So then, those who are men of faith are blessed with Abraham who had faith.

He is saying that the law given to Moses did not annul the promise of faith.

15: To give a human example, brethren: no one annuls even a man's will, or adds to it, once it has been ratified.
16: Now the promises were made to Abraham and to his offspring. It does not say, "And to offsprings," referring to many; but, referring to one, "And to your offspring," which is Christ.
17: This is what I mean: the law, which came four hundred and thirty years afterward, does not annul a covenant previously ratified by God, so as to make the promise void.
18: For if the inheritance is by the law, it is no longer by promise; but God gave it to Abraham by a promise.

The law was never meant to be a ticket into heaven.

Jumping ahead to Gal 4:9-10:

9: but now that you have come to know God, or rather to be known by God, how can you turn back again to the weak and beggarly elemental spirits, whose slaves you want to be once more?
10: You observe days, and months, and seasons, and years!

Now, in these two verses it appears that Paul is attacking the festivals, new moons, and the sabbath. (see BLB for break down of verse)

That can't be. The "fall" festivals have not yet been realized, and the sabbath is commandment #4. So, we know it can't be possible that Paul has been actually saying that the law is now invalid.

So, it must be something else. What is the logical conclusion?

Shalom

Messimom