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Post by Mpossoff on Jan 29, 2007 5:20:51 GMT -8
Mark I had a talk with this morning with the Pastor I had weekl studies with and shared with him what I've been learning.
I shared with him what I've been learning in Acts. Generally speaking I said that ALL Jews in Acts didn't "abandom" the law. This lead us to the scripture about some "believing" Jews saying that the Gentiles must be circumsized, etc.
The Pastor said that the scripture meant that ALL didn't have to circumsized. That circumcition is no more that includes for Jews too.
Now I haven't gotten to that specific scripture yet but almost there. As we were talking I opened up my bible to that scripture. The scripture doesn't say that. It's referring to Gentiles, not to Jews. I told him that and he said that it does refer to everyone.
Now I'm not at that part in Acts yet as the study is leading me there, but what he says the scripture says and what it really says don't jive.
He also mentioned in Acts that it's the birth of the church. I then said scripture doesn't say that. What it says in Acts that people were added. Added to what? He couldn't answer it. I said people were added to what always has been and that it's not a "new religion".
He was kind of angry'ish with me for challenging him. As he was suppose to be my teacher.
Now to be fair I don't think Pastor is intentionally being malicious. He's just, like I used to, using the theology he was taught and believes it.
Marc
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Post by Chizuk Emunah on Jan 29, 2007 6:16:48 GMT -8
Many Christian folk come to me with a question commonly prefaced with, "Don't Jews believe...?" I always put my hands up and cause them to step back just a little. There are very few doctrines that you can place under the blanket of Judaism and say all Jews believe such and such. We have to do the same thing with Christianity. To say Christians are all against  is a gross over-statement. We could say (in speaking of the majority) that Christians all embrace homosexuality. Yet, within every congregation of Churches in my community you will find at least some who will take exception to that. I've met Catholics who walk in a sincere relationship with Adonai, walking in faith. I've met Protestants who have desire to grow and walk in obedience to (though some of them will define their pursuit very differently). David Lancaster (First Fruits of Zion) has stated that many Christians are growing and learning to walk in without even realizing that is what they are doing! Sure, they have some anti-nomian (sometimes anti-semitic) hang-ups; but Adonai is sluffing off the old things in the order and with the priorities that are most honoring to Him. Mark, I wasn't suggesting that there are not some very sincere Christians. One can be very sincere in their faith and still be very misguided. I think most of us here were Christians at one time or another, so on that basis I harbor no malice towards the average lay person. What I did suggest was that the very basis for Christianity, the doctrines and theology (once you get to the very root ie... the apostasy in 135 CE), they are not merely misguided, they are in fact flat-out wrong and contradictory to the Word of HaShem. And he will be, because you are challenging his beliefs. Keep pressing achi, keep on pressing. Shavua Tov, Natanel |
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Post by R' Y'hoshua Moshe on Jan 29, 2007 16:30:46 GMT -8
Shalom chaverim u'mishpochah  I agree with the sentiments of many here. I would encourage those whom are just getting into this discussion to read through the original pages of this thread as we have already covered much ground. I would have to say that I believe that there are many in all different sects of Christianity that are seeking a sincere relationship with the Father and trying the best with what they know is true to serve Him. I believe that many of them have heard the call of Adonai and have responded in faith to His Son and to His Word. I believe that many of them are in the process of removing themselves from the deception and coming to the truth. I believe that such ones whom have responded in trusting the Elohim Of Yisrael and have endeavored to serve Him with their whole heart, soul, and strength will be led by the Ruach Hakodesh (Holy Spirit) and are on the road to salvation. Just to clarify, the forum stands for the belief that both Jew and Gentile are saved by the trust we have in Adonai and the Grace that He shows each one of us. But, true faith and trust in The Elohim Of Yisrael produces righteous works. Most Christians believe what Ya'akov (James) said regarding faith without works is dead. The question is...what are those works? And, what does true faith look like? As we speak to our Christian brothers, may our speach be seasoned with the chen v'chesed (grace, mercy, and loving-kindness) of Adonai. "Let your speech always be with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer each one. " - Col 4:6 Reuel |
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Post by Tzav_laTzav on Feb 7, 2007 10:18:48 GMT -8
[The pastor] was kind of angry'ish with me for challenging him. As he was suppose to be my teacher. Now to be fair I don't think Pastor is intentionally being malicious. He's just, like I used to, using the theology he was taught and believes it. Marc You got that right, Marc. (I've been thinking about you and what you are going through / will be going through.) Please keep in the front of your mind that what you are looking into, what is challenging you, what you are learning step by step (just as I am still learning step-by-step) is a challenge that is horribly difficult for teachers in the church. It not only rips up everything they have applied themselves to, if they let it, but it tears up their professors, their churches, and their livelihoods. If they start seeing what you see and admit it, their organization will turn them out, their churches will not accept them, they will be called heretics, and they will be looking for work. On the smaller scale of those of us who do not have careers wrapped up in religion, it merely tears apart our relationships with many church teachers, friends, and family members. What we have seen in Scriptures upsets the whole apple cart! I remember how difficult it was at first. You are in my prayers. |
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Post by Mpossoff on Feb 7, 2007 11:08:14 GMT -8
What I'm going through now is very enlightening but I'm a minority.
Seems that this world is so overun with Christian mindsets.
I've been in some discussions since I "returned" and I'm finding you can talk to people til you're blue in the face.
It's hard especially with my wife who is a Catholic. When I first was "saved"(put that in quotes for a reason) it was a shocker to her that I believed in Jesus but I was a "Christian" if you know what I mean.
Now I KNOW. In my testimony I wrote that she said ""Why don't you just be a Jew"( her thinking just like mine used to be was that Jews don't accept Jesus).
My answer was "I am being a Jew, a Jew that Jesus wants me to be and expects me to be".
Well I didn't really know what that meant at that present time. I thought "heck I'm a Jew who believes in Jesus" and that was my understanding that I was being a Jew that Jesus wanted me to be.
Well I wasn't.
And know I know what it means and my statement although true at the time I didn't have an understanding.
Make any sense?
Marc
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Post by Yitzchak on Feb 7, 2007 12:17:49 GMT -8
What I'm going through now is very enlightening but I'm a minority. Seems that this world is so overun with Christian mindsets. Marc, Unfortunately, the Hellenistic (Greek) mindset is the foundation of what we know as the church. Be encouraged, as you are not so much in the minority. There are many like you who Avinu (Our Father) is touching, and bringing in to the light of His . Just as you were drawn by Adonai, you must pray that they will have the same experience. Try to lovingly show people their error from the scriptures. Most catholics have a difficult time as they depend on men to tell them what is truth. Many do not even read the bible for themselves. It is not unusual for them to be surprised when a Jew comes to faith. [/i] Well I didn't really know what that meant at that present time. I thought "heck I'm a Jew who believes in Jesus" and that was my understanding that I was being a Jew that Jesus wanted me to be. Well I wasn't. And know I know what it means and my statement although true at the time I didn't have an understanding. Make any sense? Marc[/quote] It makes absolute sense. When you come to faith in the church they tell you that you are now born again, and a christian. That this is the desire of G-d for you. However, this was never the intention of G-d. Yeshua did not come to form a new religion. He came to gather together the lost sheep of the house of Israel. It was through Israel that He determined to bring all of the nations into relationship with the Father. What it the real truth is that the most Jewish thing in the word is to believe in Yeshua. However, we are to remain Jews, and not become something else. Shalom, Yitzchak |
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Post by Chizuk Emunah on Feb 12, 2007 6:22:27 GMT -8
Amein!
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Post by Nachshon on Feb 15, 2007 8:00:40 GMT -8
Going back to the original question of this thread, I just wanted to give my thoughts,
I've struggled with the same question, trying to figure out what exactly it is to be "saved." I came to the conclusion that it is neither the intellectual "faith" of Chri*tianity, nor the active faith of Judaism that saves. These are both merely means to the end. The end is this, having a relationship with the Father. I John 2 tells us that if we say we know God, but do not obey His commandments, we are liars, and the truth is not in us. Yeshua told us that not just anyone who said "lord, lord" would enter the kingdom, but those who do the will of the Father. I came to the conclusion that, if someone is completely Torahless, if they "believe" intellectually, but disobey every Mitzwah, they cannot be "saved." (for lack of a better word) Outside of that, I don't know.
Shalom,
Nachshon
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Post by Chizuk Emunah on Feb 15, 2007 10:27:44 GMT -8
Going back to the original question of this thread, I just wanted to give my thoughts, I've struggled with the same question, trying to figure out what exactly it is to be "saved." I came to the conclusion that it is neither the intellectual "faith" of Chri*tianity, nor the active faith of Judaism that saves. These are both merely means to the end. The end is this, having a relationship with the Father. I John 2 tells us that if we say we know God, but do not obey His commandments, we are liars, and the truth is not in us. Yeshua told us that not just anyone who said "lord, lord" would enter the kingdom, but those who do the will of the Father. I came to the conclusion that, if someone is completely Torahless, if they "believe" intellectually, but disobey every Mitzwah, they cannot be "saved." (for lack of a better word) Outside of that, I don't know. Shalom, Nachshon Again, I think you're right on point here Nachshon. Consider also what Rabbi Y'hoshua said to the rich man when he asked what he must do to inherit the Kingdom, "If you will enter into life, keep the mitzvot." Seems pretty clear. Also see the "False Gospel" thread as it ties into this. Shalom, Natanel |
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Post by Mark on Apr 13, 2007 6:04:15 GMT -8
If I have told you earthly things and you do not believe, how shall you believe if I tell you heavenly things? And no one has ascended up to Heaven except He who came down from Heaven, the Son of Man who is in Heaven. But even as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up, so that whosoever believes in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God so loved the world that He gave His only-begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but so that the world might be saved through Him. He who believes on Him is not condemned, but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only-begotten Son of God. And this is the condemnation, that the Light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than the Light, because their deeds were evil. For everyone who does evil hates the Light, and does not come to the Light, lest his deeds should be exposed. But he who practices truth comes to the Light so that his works may be revealed, that they exist, having been worked in God. (Joh 3:12-21 MKJV) The simplicity of our salvation: that we are guilty of sin and in need of a Savior and Adonai has sent His own Son for our reconcilliation is not contingent upon our capacity to grasp and our conviction to follow the commands and avoid the prohibitions of . It is not the result of our intellectual management nor the force of our conviction to discipline our minds toward obedience. It is this: that the Spirit of Adonai reaches in and touches us, giving us life. The surprising thing about Christians is that they (we) are in many cases, to some extent, observant. Even those who say that is done away, as they grow in the knowledge of and in their relationship to Messiah, find themselves walking more and more into obedience of the mitzot (though they hedge themselves away from some of the more obvious ones). Are Christians saved? Some are. Some are growing in their relationship with the Messiah, though they've never cracked the pages of , they are living in obedience to many of the mitzotim. Equally, may who aleign themselves with the God of the Jews and who discipline their lives according to strictest orthodoxy will never experience a relationship with Adonai. It is the being, not the doing. Doing is the inevitable consequence of coming into a relationship with the most High God. The wonderful thing about salvation is that it is paper thin. He who believes will be saved. That's it! It's no more complicated than that. The beautiful thing about salvation is that it is as deep as the universe- we cannot plunge the depths of the relationship Adonai offers to us in love. Some are saved and tread on the surface for the span of their spiritual lives. Paul describes those in 1st Corinthians 3:15 as those "saved yet so as by fire." Many more will have a confidence in the concept of Messiah but have never entered into a personal relationship with Him. " Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity." (Mat 7:22-23 KJV) We can't say that because some deny the biblical definition of Sabbath or that have ham for Easter must not be invited into the kingdom of God. Our relationship with Adonai is not based upon our theological S.A.T. score. Have we entered into relationship or are we basing our position our hope of acceptance upon our own condition of merit: that is the question that must be answered. |
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Post by Chizuk Emunah on Apr 13, 2007 11:35:13 GMT -8
I disagree Mark, on a couple points. One, the and Tanakh are very clear that one who keeps the mitzvot to the best of their ability will merit a place in Olam Haba. In fact, right before entering HaEretz, after being reminded of the mitzvot accepted at Sinai, Am Yisrael are told by HaShem through Moshe to "choose life that they may live." Two, this is more for clarification purposes for others, but that reference in Matt. 7:23, actually translates as Torahlessness. So those who are cast away are those who do not walk according . However, I do agree in part that a righteous life is made manifest through one's faith in HaShem. If one truly has faith in HaShem and desires to serve him, they will walk according to his . Shalom, Natanel |
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Post by Mark on Apr 13, 2007 14:10:21 GMT -8
Tanakh is also clear that not one of us is able to justify ourselves by our performance of mitzotim. I can'ty agree your phrase "to the best of his ability..." where in the or Tanakh is it suggested that Adonai grades on a curve? You shall meet him who rejoices and does righteousness, who remembers You in Your ways. See, You were wroth when we sinned in them a long time. And should we be saved? And all of us have become as one unclean, and all our righteousnesses are as soiled rags. And all of us fade like a leaf, and our crookednesses, like the wind, have taken us away. And there is no one who calls on Your Name, who stirs himself up to take hold of You; for You have hidden Your face from us, and have consumed us because of our crookednesses. (Isa 64:5-7 The Scriptures '98) |
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Post by youneverletgo on Mar 8, 2009 14:53:27 GMT -8
The title itself will cause many raised  . I have a question that bothers me. I was what you call a Christian for 28 years. I just recently became -observant, knowledgeable of the . I have brought my whole family into the faith through my testimony. Now I have changed and I know they don't understand. My mother is always asking me questions. I used to be a "Word of Faith Believer" and I taught my family the concepts of faith. My mother caught on to this and became a strong believer in many of the principles. Now I have totally rejected the "Word Faith Teaching" and have become Observant. My friends tell me Christians are following a false Jesus. I do understand what they are saying. But they also say they are probably not saved.  I have a hard time with that. My mom, sister love God. I know they are not knowledgeable, but they are not studiers like me.  Are they going to hell? Are all non observant Believers going to Hell?  First, let me say that I'm Christian. I'm here because I have a friend who is a Messianic Jew and I was curious about Messianic Jewish beliefs. As a Christian, my perspective may be very different from many others in this forum, and it might also be very similar. I don't really know...that is part of the reason that I'm here. And although I define myself as a Christian, this word means different things to different people. We also have to consider the difference between, say society's definition of Christian and what many would consider to be the biblical definition of Christian. Society seems to consider anyone a Christian who claims to be one. In other words, if someone is Christian in name only or uses that title for themselves, or because they don't know what else to identify themselves as. Or perhaps their family goes to church and they have been baptized. This is what I'm calling society's definition of Christian. My definition of Christian goes a lot deeper than that. I would consider someone a Christian only if they truly confessed Jesus Christ to be their personal Lord and Savior (and meant it). If they trusted in Him and in what He did for them on the cross -- if they believed that He died for them and that He bodily rose from the dead. Anyone who has placed faith in Him and has turned their life over to Him would be my definition of a Christian. The Christian life is meant to be about a personal relationship with Jesus. Now....the Word of Faith teachings that you are talking about, if you mean what I think you mean by that (the Word of Faith/Prosperity Gospel) stuff, then I want to tell you that that is NOT Christian orthodoxy. It is actually a false gospel and is a heretical teaching. I know a lot of TV preachers and popular so-called Christian authors teach this theology, but I don't consider it to be true Christian teaching. Instead it's getting people to take their eyes off of Jesus and put them on riches, money, comfort, health, wealth, and prosperity. Because the term "Christian" has become so broad in society, I guess there are stereotypes of what a "Christian" is. I suppose it is easy to lump us all into one category and say that we are "all like that." However, this does not reflect reality. I'm not the only Christian who rejects Word of Faith/Prosperity Gospel teachings. Many of us reject this stuff. I do think that a number of people who call themselves Christian probably are not saved. This is because a lot of people grow up thinking that just because they were raised in a church or were baptized that they are safe. They must have Jesus. However, at the same time, there are a number of us Christians who have committed our lives to Jesus Christ, and He truly has become our Lord and Savior and King. It seems like what you are really asking is this -- does a person have to follow all of the laws in order to be saved? I don't mean to offend anyone here, and please note that the posts below are not meant to dissuade anyone from following the law. However, this appears to be the root of the question that was asked in the original post. I can only answer this question from my perspective as a Christian. I would point you to the following Scriptures: Romans 10:5-12 (NASB) 5For Moses writes that the man who practices the righteousness which is based on law shall live by that righteousness. 6But the righteousness based on faith speaks as follows: "DO NOT SAY IN YOUR HEART, 'WHO WILL ASCEND INTO HEAVEN?' (that is, to bring Christ down), 7or 'WHO WILL DESCEND INTO THE ABYSS?' (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead)." 8But what does it say? "THE WORD IS NEAR YOU, IN YOUR MOUTH AND IN YOUR HEART"--that is, the word of faith which we are preaching,9 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;10for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.11 For the Scripture says, "WHOEVER BELIEVES IN HIM WILL NOT BE DISAPPOINTED."12For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of all, abounding in riches for all who call on Him; Romans 3:21-30 (NIV -- I generally like the NASB, but I think that the NIV is slightly easier to understand) RO 3:21 But now a righteousness from God, apart from law, has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. 22 This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference, 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus. 25 God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in his blood. He did this to demonstrate his justice, because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished-- 26 he did it to demonstrate his justice at the present time, so as to be just and the one who justifies those who have faith in Jesus. RO 3:27 Where, then, is boasting? It is excluded. On what principle? On that of observing the law? No, but on that of faith. 28 For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from observing the law. 29 Is God the God of Jews only? Is he not the God of Gentiles too? Yes, of Gentiles too, 30 since there is only one God, who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through that same faith. And furthermore, if it is necessary to follow the laws in order to be saved, then Jesus' death really is of little value. The question really is what saves people? Is it by following the law or is it faith in Christ? Romans 4:1-8:4 I will let you look it up yourself. However, there are a few verses from that passage that I would like to highlight. RO 4:13 It was not through law that Abraham and his offspring received the promise that he would be heir of the world, but through the righteousness that comes by faith. 14 For if those who live by law are heirs, faith has no value and the promise is worthless, 15 because law brings wrath. And where there is no law there is no transgression. RO 5:1 Therefore, since we have been justified through faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, 2 through whom we have gained access by faith into this grace in which we now stand. RO 5:9 Since we have now been justified by his blood, how much more shall we be saved from God's wrath through him! 10 For if, when we were God's enemies, we were reconciled to him through the death of his Son, how much more, having been reconciled, shall we be saved through his life! 11 Not only is this so, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation. RO 5:15 But the gift is not like the trespass. For if the many died by the trespass of the one man, how much more did God's grace and the gift that came by the grace of the one man, Jesus Christ, overflow to the many! 16 Again, the gift of God is not like the result of the one man's sin: The judgment followed one sin and brought condemnation, but the gift followed many trespasses and brought justification. 17 For if, by the trespass of the one man, death reigned through that one man, how much more will those who receive God's abundant provision of grace and of the gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man, Jesus Christ. RO 5:18 Consequently, just as the result of one trespass was condemnation for all men, so also the result of one act of righteousness was justification that brings life for all men. 19 For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners, so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous. RO 8:1 Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, 2 because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit of life set me free from the law of sin and death. 3 For what the law was powerless to do in that it was weakened by the sinful nature, God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful man to be a sin offering. And so he condemned sin in sinful man, 4 in order that the righteous requirements of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the sinful nature but according to the Spirit. And finally, to the question of what justifies people before God, I believe it is faith in Christ and not by following the law. Read through all of Galatians. It seems that Paul is dealing with this very issue of what justifies people before God. The law? or faith in Christ?: GAL 5:2 Mark my words! I, Paul, tell you that if you let yourselves be circumcised, Christ will be of no value to you at all. 3 Again I declare to every man who lets himself be circumcised that he is obligated to obey the whole law. 4 You who are trying to be justified by law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace. 5 But by faith we eagerly await through the Spirit the righteousness for which we hope. 6 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision has any value. The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love. |
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Post by youneverletgo on Mar 8, 2009 15:35:31 GMT -8
I have been watching this thread pretty closely for a while and after seeing Reuel's latest post, I feel I must concur. For I truly believe that one cannot be saved by a false Gospel. Since the defines for us what sin is, but is not taught by apostate Christianity, then how does one know what they need to repent of? The hebrew word for repentance is "t'shuva." It means to "turn back." Therefore, one cannot repent or "turn back" to if they don't acknowledge its existence. I have been reading several of the replies here, and I just have to ask this question. It seems to me that at least several people on here think that the gospel is to get people to follow all of the laws. It seems that you are saying that when people repent of their sin, the sin that they are to be repenting of is not following all of the laws. From my perspective, people need to repent of their rebellion towards God -- the fact that they were living for themselves, and had decided to live their own life their own way. Repentance, how I understand it is, to repent from living from self and to instead turn towards God, acknowledging that we need Him, and we can't save ourselves. In other words, what I have always believed is that people needed to turn back towards God, not back towards following all of the Laws. Please note that I'm not saying that it is wrong to follow any of the Laws. I simply see this differently. I think that human rebellion is rebellion towards God and not towards Law. From my understanding, this is what Paul says are the fruits of the Spirit: GAL 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law. 24 Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the sinful nature with its passions and desires. 25 Since we live by the Spirit, let us keep in step with the Spirit. 26 Let us not become conceited, provoking and envying each other. If you read Galatians 5:22-26 in its full context, it seems that Paul is making an argument that people need to keep in step with the Spirit. It's by the Spirit that people are empowered to live a life pleasing to God. The fruits of the Spirit are love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control. It also seems that love sums it all up. In 1 Corinthians chapter 13 he talks about what love is. Jesus said that all of the Law and the Prophets could be summed up in loving God and loving other people. Isn't love a higher standard to measure deeds by? Wouldn't it be better to ask such things as, "is this action loving towards this person?" Please help me understand how you view passages such as Galatians 5. Thank you. |
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Post by youneverletgo on Mar 8, 2009 15:48:48 GMT -8
"Your righteousness is an everlasting righteousness. Your (law) is truth." - Tehillim (Psa.) 119:142 Is there any debate here as to the truth of the above statement? Unfortunately, there is a stark difference between those whom actually believe the above...and those whom don't. You can't even repent of sin if you don't recognize what it is...right? And, you have to repent to be forgiven...right? If G'd comes and tells us what sin is and that we should repent of it (t'shuva)...to turn from it...and we refuse to trust Him and have faith in Him as to what sin is...will we be forgiven if we don't repent? If someone has a Bible or a TeNaKh they are without excuse because each one is held accountable. On judgement day they will not be able to point to their local pastor and blame them.... "He has shown you, O man, what is good. What does YHVH require of you, but to act justly, to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your G'd?" - Mikhah 6:8 "This is the end of the matter. All has been heard. Fear G'd, and keep his commandments; for this is the whole duty of man." - Kohelet (Ecc.) 12:13 For no matter how much someone proclaims otherwise...faith -without- works is dead (Yaakov/James 2:26). It it is the works of the Father that this passage speaks of...not what we think is good. No matter how sincere we think we are, we cannot be saved from a false gospel (or, a false message of good news). For this message includes the repentance of Biblical sin defined by . The true faith that saves comes from hearing, and that is hearing the word of G'd (Rom.10:17). When the Shema says, "Hear", it means hear with the intent to obey. Faith without works is dead. Shalom chaverim, Reuel I have to ask, when you read all of Romans, isn't Paul saying in Romans 10 that faith comes from hearing about Jesus Christ? Aren't people supposed to put their faith in Him? Is it in Christ or is it in the Law that people are supposed to put their faith in? My understanding is that it is in Jesus Christ. From reading the posts in here, I also came across a post about the gate being narrow. Isn't Jesus that gate, and isn't He the way, the truth, and the life? And what about Colossians 2:16-19 COL 2:16 Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. 17 These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ. 18 Do not let anyone who delights in false humility and the worship of angels disqualify you for the prize. Such a person goes into great detail about what he has seen, and his unspiritual mind puffs him up with idle notions. 19 He has lost connection with the Head, from whom the whole body, supported and held together by its ligaments and sinews, grows as God causes it to grow. Isn't reality found in Christ? Isn't Jesus to be the foundation of our lives? What is your take on this? |
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is a gross over-statement. We could say (in speaking of the majority) that Christians all embrace homosexuality. Yet, within every congregation of Churches in my community you will find at least some who will take exception to that. 
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