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Post by R' Y'hoshua Moshe on Jul 8, 2005 9:59:32 GMT -8
There are many in the  based movement that are celebrating the Moedim (Holy Days) according to the Aviv barley harvest. There is no clear commandment to check the barley harvest to determine the Moedim. It is something that those whom practice this method have implied from the text concerning the celebration of Pesach (Passover). It is the observation of this writer that this tradition is mainly practiced by proponents of "Two House Theology" and not by Messianic Judaism. The Aviv barley method of deteriming the Moedim has caused much division in the observant body of Messiah and it is my belief that scripture does not uphold this reckoning of the Moedim. With that said, I have opened this thread to discuss both sides of the issue. Shalom chaverim, Reuel |
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Post by Blake on Jul 8, 2005 11:31:19 GMT -8
I'm not sure if the moedim should be based on the barley harvest, but the current Rabbanite callender is a working of men's calculations, not those of God.
14 And God said, "Let there be lights in the expanse of the heavens to separate the day from the night. And let them be for signs and for appointed times (moedim) and for days and years
The Bible states that the lights of the sky to be what the calender is based on.
Not 19-year leap cycles or barley.
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Post by R' Y'hoshua Moshe on Jul 8, 2005 13:38:09 GMT -8
Hallel's calendar is based of the lunar cycle....and is usually only off by a day or so, if it is off. I know because I check both the traditional calendar on the new moon to determine the moedim.
Shalom,
Reuel
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Post by Chizuk Emunah on Jul 8, 2005 17:54:51 GMT -8
Remarkable, considering it was calculated hundreds of years ago. Exactly. This is the strongest argument against the barley calendar. The makes it very clear that the moedim are determined by the sun, moon, & stars. Also, I know that not all organizations of the "Two-House" movement observe the barley calendar. The Nazarene Yisraelites (though wayward souls), do observe the Hillel II calendar. |
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Post by messimom on Jul 8, 2005 22:21:51 GMT -8
Very true. Some of the two house subscribers in my area stuck to the calendar and moon phases rather than the barley. I will have to ask my local Elder exactly what we are going by, as I sheepishly admit I'm not sure. I do know we celebrated Pesach at the normal messianic calendar time, not "a month early" as others did.
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Post by R' Y'hoshua Moshe on Jul 8, 2005 22:25:29 GMT -8
Thanks for letting me know about some of the other "Two House" groups that are not doing this. It is probably just coincidence, but every person I have talked to whom believe keeping the moedim according to the Aviv barley method have been "Two House".
Shalom chaverim,
Reuel
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Post by Chizuk Emunah on Jul 9, 2005 11:40:05 GMT -8
The reason for that may be the attraction in observing a so-called "biblical calendar." I am also aware of other Messianic groups that are not "Two-House" that observe the barley calendar as well. Again, who knows why they do it, or what attracts them to it, but I firmly believe that it is in direct contradiction to how the moedim are to be observed as stated in the . |
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Post by R' Y'hoshua Moshe on Jul 9, 2005 11:44:40 GMT -8
Thank you for sharing this with me about other non-"Two House" groups with this interpretation of the Barley Aviv view. I put that out there because I wanted to see if my perception was correct, but it seems it is not isolated to this group. Oy vey!  Todah b'Yeshua, Reuel |
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Post by Chizuk Emunah on Jul 9, 2005 13:03:04 GMT -8
No problem. It's important for us to be informed about such things, so when one person has knowledge about a specific issue, it's good for them to share it.
Oy vey is right! While it certainly isn't a pre-requisite for salvation, this is a case in which a particular teaching is infiltrating the community and causing rifts between many groups.
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Post by messimom on Jan 20, 2006 23:40:29 GMT -8
Well, that time of year is fast approaching yet again. I have been wondering if those in the leadership of the various Messianic communities have tried to come to some sort of agreement on this issue. The verses concerning Pesach timing are Ex 9:3, Ex 13:4, Ex 23:15, and Deut 16:1.
This is such a divisive argument amongst everyone, we, as the Messianic community in large, need to come together and unify, one in Olive Tree, on in Messiah. Shouldn't we celebrate our first major holiday of the year in unity?
Shabbat Shalom,
Messimom
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Post by Chizuk Emunah on Jan 21, 2006 11:57:26 GMT -8
Well, we need to have unity in the Messianic Movement before we can even think to have unity regarding the moedim....
Shabbat Shalom,
Natanel
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Post by Blake on Jan 21, 2006 12:32:58 GMT -8
""I am also aware of other Messianic groups that are not "Two-House" that observe the barley calendar as well.""
Do not Karaites also hold this intrepretation?
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Post by Chizuk Emunah on Jan 21, 2006 19:03:50 GMT -8
Yes they do. However, from what I know, they do not consider themselves to be Messianic.
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Post by Eliora on Sept 14, 2008 6:15:05 GMT -8
I observe the Moedim according the Aviv barley harvest and a lunar calendar (and am not part of a Two House Theology).
My understanding of history is that it started out this way, but then when the Jews were dispersed, they no longer knew what was going on in Israel or when the new moons began in Israel. That's why the Rabbanites had to make a calendar based on the best calculations of the day, so that the Jews would have some idea of when they are supposed to celebrate things. Over time, however, it's become inaccurate to the point that it's a couple days off (so the calculations weren't all that shabby, considering when they were made). And the Aviv barley was impossible to predict from the beginning, so that has always been off in some years. It has also been explained to me (by a traditional Jew, just so you know) that the Rabbanites *want* go back to the old method of determining the calendar, if only they had the Sanhedrin to decree it.
Thus the Aviv barley + lunar calendar is biblical, IMO. It all comes down to whether you think the Sanhedrin needs to tell us to go back to that. I am a Scripturalist, so I would rather do as was originally done.
As for causing division... it doesn't need to, really. My husband and I do our personal observances according to the biblical calendar. Our congregation prefers to do the Rabbanite thing, so we do whatever traditions they want to do, whenever they want to do it. We just don't carry out the personal observances a second time (like not working, or fasting on Yom Kippur, etc).
The only thing that bothers me is that our entire congregation actually agrees that we *should* be celebrating it according to the Aviv barley + lunar calendar, and yet we still stick to the Rabbinic days for stuff, so as not to alienate the Jewish community. That would make sense if the Jewish community actually knew anything about us, but they have no idea when we do things and are opposed to us anyway, so it doesn't make much sense to me.
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Post by Mark on Sept 14, 2008 6:33:37 GMT -8
There is always hope that the greater Jewish community will at some point begin to embrace the Messianic people; and this subject would be a matter of contention. I appreciate your spirit of holding what you believe to be true while still remaining part of a community where there is some disagreement. Regardless of your perspective, showing deference to the community is trait that is very honorable.
I have to admit that the calendar is really not my thing- that math anxiety business- so I just go whith whatever I'm told. Yet, I am encouraged by knowing that discrepencies between the rabbinical dates and the Aviv-barley harvest are actually rare when done correctly.
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based movement that are celebrating the Moedim (Holy Days) according to the Aviv barley harvest. There is no clear commandment to check the barley harvest to determine the Moedim. It is something that those whom practice this method have implied from the text concerning the celebration of Pesach (Passover). It is the observation of this writer that this tradition is mainly practiced by proponents of "Two House Theology" and not by Messianic Judaism. The Aviv barley method of deteriming the Moedim has caused much division in the 
