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Post by alon on Jun 22, 2019 2:07:48 GMT -8
Here’s a passage that has always puzzled me. But I think I may have gotten some understanding from a teaching Rav S did. I came to this while contemplating something he said, so this sin’t his, it’s mine very own thot. That’s important to know, because I need to get you all’s reaction. I am leaving the headings in because this is how Christianity typically breaks this up, so you never get the whole story from them.
Mark 11:11-15 (ESV)
11 And he entered Jerusalem and went into the temple. And when he had looked around at everything, as it was already late, he went out to Bethany with the twelve.
Jesus Curses the Fig Tree
12 On the following day, when they came from Bethany, he was hungry. 13 And seeing in the distance a fig tree in leaf, he went to see if he could find anything on it. When he came to it, he found nothing but leaves, for it was not the season for figs. 14 And he said to it, “May no one ever eat fruit from you again.” And his disciples heard it.
Jesus Cleanses the Temple
15 And they came to Jerusalem. And he entered the temple and began to drive out those who sold and those who bought in the temple, and he overturned the tables of the money-changers and the seats of those who sold pigeons.
Did you see it? This never made an impression on me before, but Yeshua was in the Temple the previous day and saw what was going on. His cleaning out the Temple was not the spontaneous action we are led to believe it was. Indeed, it couldn’t have been that spontaneous:
John 2:13-17 (ESV) The Passover of the Jews was at hand, and Jesus went up to Jerusalem. In the temple he found those who were selling oxen and sheep and pigeons, and the money-changers sitting there. And making a whip of cords, he drove them all out of the temple, with the sheep and oxen. And he poured out the coins of the money-changers and overturned their tables. And he told those who sold the pigeons, “Take these things away; do not make my Father's house a house of trade.” His disciples remembered that it was written, “Zeal for your house will consume me.”
He had to find the materials and fashion a scourge, then went in and in a protracted act of violence cleared out the Temple. And note the phrase "Zeal for your house will consume me.”
So He was angry at the buying and selling in the Temple, but not enraged to the point of losing rational thought. Moreover He knew of this all from the previous day. And why curse a tree which was just standing there with malice towards no one, doing what trees were wont to do in that place, time, and circumstance?
This may be showing us Yeshua’s human side. His anger was probably on a slow boil from what He’d seen. "Zeal for your house will consume me.” But He is hungry, and wanted some figs. Bethany in Hebrew is Beit’Anyah, or “House of Figs.” Surely if you were craving figs, this is the place to be! But there were none on this tree. So in His mounting frustration and anger over the Temple He maybe overreacted a bit and cursed the tree.
This shows Yeshua in a more human light that He did get frustrated, perhaps even angry at a tree because He was hungry; and He was more than a little upset with what was happening in the Temple. He was fully human and would have had to deal with these same kinds of things we do.
Note too He overreacted on a tree, not on the people. He didn’t kill in a blind rage, nor cripple or even hospitalize anyone. He just ran ‘em off, and their beasts.
But the tree is key here in seeing this. Otherwise why tell about the tree at all? And it’s occurrence between Temple visits is key here. It is the clue that binds the story together and gives insight into not only what actually happened, but on Yeshua’s state of mind; and ultimately on His character, and thus on the character of Almighty God!
Anyhow, that’s my take on it.
Dan C
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Post by Elizabeth on Jun 22, 2019 9:04:58 GMT -8
He didn't boil over toward the fig tree either, and I actually think it depicts His divinity. Everything Yeshua did and does has a perfect purpose.
The fig tree represents Israel, and He cursed it to illustrate why He cleaned out the Temple and had to die. Israel is called by G-d to bear fruit.
Because Israel was not bearing the fruit of repentance and faith, Israel was not ready for Messiah the Conquering King. If they got what they were expecting and wanted, Messiah would have had to curse them along with everyone else. No one would have been saved if they got the Messiah they want and wanted. That's the point.
Jewish people who don't think they need a suffering Messiah don't really understand what they're asking for. G-d's mercy is on them, and they don't see it because they somehow don't get the true seriousness of their sin. They know He'll do away with sin, but they aren't taking to heart how. He's going to destroy it.
There is no in season or out of season with G-d. We can see that in Genesis before the fall and Revelation 22. The trees are aways fruitful according to G-d's plan for life, and through Yeshua, His followers are too. It's amazing that when times are the hardest and it makes no sense we could do well, that's when the faithful congregation bears the most fruit.
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Post by alon on Jun 22, 2019 19:29:47 GMT -8
He didn't boil over toward the fig tree either, and I actually think it depicts His divinity. Everything Yeshua did and does has a perfect purpose. The fig tree represents Israel, and He cursed it to illustrate why He cleaned out the Temple and had to die. Israel is called by G-d to bear fruit. Because Israel was not bearing the fruit of repentance and faith, Israel was not ready for Messiah the Conquering King. If they got what they were expecting and wanted, Messiah would have had to curse them along with everyone else. No one would have been saved if they got the Messiah they want and wanted. That's the point. Jewish people who don't think they need a suffering Messiah don't really understand what they're asking for. G-d's mercy is on them, and they don't see it because they somehow don't get the true seriousness of their sin. They know He'll do away with sin, but they aren't taking to heart how. He's going to destroy it. There is no in season or out of season with G-d. We can see that in Genesis before the fall and Revelation 22. The trees are aways fruitful according to G-d's plan for life, and through Yeshua, His followers are too. It's amazing that when times are the hardest and it makes no sense we could do well, that's when the faithful congregation bears the most fruit.
Another thing we see, or rather don't see in this account is His talmidim never asked why. In most every incident or teaching His disciples asked Yeshua what was meant by what He'd said or done. "Why are you sleeping when the boat is about to sink?" "What do you mean telling them about seeds scattered everywhere?" "Why did you curse a tree ...," but we don't see that question asked. My assertion is that He as angry, frustrated, and they would have seen this. Just like they knew why He cleansed the Temple, "His disciples remembered that it was written, “Zeal for your house will consume me.”" So they knew why He cursed the fig tree. They could see it on His face, His demeanor, His actions.
Just curious how the RC's teach this, but did you ever hear that Jesus had already seen what was happening in the Temple the day before?
In your interpretation of the story, Yeshua would have had to leave, think about it for a while, decide to curse a tree for illustrative purposes, then go cleanse the Temple. Why then did his talmidim never ask why He cursed a tree? This always gave Him the opportunity to tell us what was meant, assuming you are correct and there was some deep spiritual illustration happening here. But we are not given that in the biblical accounts. It only comes through church tradition, handed down by men who were rabid anti-Semites and who'd never miss an opportunity to say "Jesus hated Israel, so He cursed a tree to illustrate the point." That is the prevailing "wisdom." It is what we were all taught if we went to church.
You do express this view very articulately. And you make some good points. I like the point about there being no in or out of season with God. As I understand it, there are 2 varieties of dates in Israel. One bears through spring and early summer, the other mid summer through fall. So only in winter is there not something bearing dates, except maybe a short period between one stoping and the other ripening. So I can see that as a possible point in favor of your interpretation. But the entire world, including Israel will never be ready for that terrible day when Yeshua ben'Dovid returns. That postponement had to do with HaSmen's plan than with Israel's state of readiness. So again you are correct that those who asked for Moshiach ben'Dovid did not know what they were asking. However not all, or even most were asking for this. The church, in their attempts to make a blanket condemnation of Judaism as well as in their willful ignorance of all things Jewish has a tendency to just lump them all together. There were not only many different sects, but there were different types of Judaism at the time. There was probably nothing that everyone agreed on. The Sadducees didn't even believe in a resurrection, nor did they want any Messiah messing up their hold on power.
What is your take on the other points in the story:
* Yeshua's prior knowledge of what was happening
* His leaving then returning next day
* His taking the time to make a scourge
* the time it took Him to clear everyone and everything (livestock) from the Temple
* the level of violence those actions would have required
* that His talmidim did not ask, nor are we told about any deeper meanings in the act of cursing a tree
Psalm 69:9 (ESV) For zeal for your house has consumed me, and the reproaches of those who reproach you have fallen on me.
zeal- H7068 קִנְאָה qinʼâh, kin-aw'; from H7065; jealousy or envy:—envy(-ied), jealousy, × sake, zeal.
John 2:17 (ESV) His disciples remembered that it was written, “Zeal for your house will consume me.”
zeal- G2205 ζῆλος zēlos, dzay'-los; from G2204; properly, heat, i.e. (figuratively) "zeal" (in a favorable sense, ardor; in an unfavorable one, jealousy, as of a husband (figuratively, of God), or an enemy, malice):—emulation, envy(-ing), fervent mind, indignation, jealousy, zeal.
So Psalm 69:9 has the word "zeal" to mean "jealousy," as does the term in John 2:17. That is the only term they have in common, and this expresses a very human emotion. However the Greek term expands the meaning, allowing for much more benign interpretations: "in a favorable sense, ardor; fervent mind, indignation." And since all Christianity teaches that we first interpret the NT, then the OT must match whatever meanings we assign there, well, you see the problem. "He loved the Temple, it was just a case of righteous indignation, He was "fervent." No, I've worked with both men and livestock, and for one man to do what He did, He was angry as only God can be angry! One of the key precepts of Messianic Judaism is that the Old defines the New. He was jealous, "as of a husband." The Greeks got that part right. Think how a husband might react when he finds his wife has been cheating with his best friend. At the very least, someone is about to get a severe beatdown! I think Yeshua had a very human emotion, and a very human response with the tree. That's why no one asked- they understood! This was not outside the realm of their experience.
Dan (being forced to think here  ) C |
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Post by Elizabeth on Jun 22, 2019 20:09:30 GMT -8
I have to read it more clearly and think more. I had Matthew in mind and in that account the fig tree is cursed after the Temple was cleansed. I'm not sure exactly what to make of the timeline now, but either way what I stated is what I believe. I was never taught anything regarding what I said in this passage prior to accepting  in my life. This is what I believe he meant by cursing the fig tree because this is what He has given to me in terms of understanding in my own study. Honestly, I get a little annoyed when you throw what we disagree with up to my Christian learning. It's not always accurate of my interpretation as I didn't study the Bible until I became Messianic so it kind of feels like you're trying to discredit me based on my past, but it wasn't from my past. I don't want to just dismiss what I have been lead to in my sincere times with study and searching. I never would have considered Israel as remotely relevant enough to even think about regarding what Yeshua was saying as a Christian so I feel like I've come a long way. I also think I learned some pretty good things as a Christian, so just because something is Christian doesn't mean it's wrong. It feels too dismissive to me. Also, I never think G-d does anything spontaneously or without perfect intent and purpose. I've spoken to that on here so kind of thought it was assumed. I should have said clearly that I do agree with your take on His preparation and approach. It actually feels very consistent with what I believe and I appreciate you noticed that truth. I think you're right and glad you shared what you learned. I had not noticed or considered it that way. Sorry I didn't state it specifically. So we agree on that. What I disagree with is any notion that Yeshua ever lost control or gave into human weakness even if it's just about a tree, and that's what I was speaking to in my post. I get kind of zeroed in on that kind of thing so didn't mention what we agree on. I don't think it was His human side. I think it's similar to what we saw in the Temple; an example of what they should have been expecting of a Conquering King as divine Judge and King. |
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Post by alon on Jun 22, 2019 21:15:34 GMT -8
I apologize if I offended you. I am not trying to discredit you based on that. As I've said many times, we keep what is good in either Christianity or Judaism. But we must know it is good beyond doubt to keep it. Also this is the kind of teaching most of us are trying to overcome from our time in church. You may not have thought much about it, but those ideas and interpretations had to have had some effect on you. How much, I don't know. I responded as I did because, as I said this is the Christian perspective very eloquently expressed. If you came to this understanding on your own, I'm glad. However we all are still prisoners of our environment in our thinking, at least to some degree. I was just trying to engage you in conversation to learn the truth in your views and why. Just the opposite in fact of what you thought I was doing. I'm sorry I was not more clear, or if my directness caused you to think I was slighting you. You're not the first who has told me that I come across this way, so I'll take the mea culpa here.
Again, this is a very traditional Christian view of Jesus. And I am not saying that is bad or wrong just because of its origins. My problem with it is it does not allow for any expression of His humanity. He's God so He's in perfect control would eliminate a whole lot of experiences we as humans have. That means He doesn't understand us completely. He'd be pretty much emotionless, and automaton. Perhaps you see this expressed in diffeent ways, I don't know.
Oh, I was hoping to avoid that ... But ok:
Matthew 21:12-13, 17-20 (ESV)
Jesus Cleanses the Temple
12 And Jesus entered the temple and drove out all who sold and bought in the temple, and he overturned the tables of the money-changers and the seats of those who sold pigeons. 13 He said to them, “It is written, ‘My house shall be called a house of prayer,’ but you make it a den of robbers .... 17 And leaving them, he went out of the city to Bethany and lodged there.
Jesus Curses the Fig Tree
18 In the morning, as he was returning to the city, he became hungry. 19 And seeing a fig tree by the wayside, he went to it and found nothing on it but only leaves. And he said to it, “May no fruit ever come from you again!” And the fig tree withered at once. 20 When the disciples saw it, they marveled, saying, “How did the fig tree wither at once?”First we have to understand that in Hebrew thought this rearrangement of the order of events for purposes of emphasizing different points or just to make his version flow better is not wrong. This occurs many places in scripture, especially in synoptic accounts. So I wouldn't get too hung up trying to figure out the order of events. Shoot, I'm changing up the order of your post so I can beter answer you! 
Even in this account, Jesus gets at least annoyed with a tree and curses it! That sounds like a pretty human response. Also in this account the talmidim do ask about what just happened. But they were asking the wrong questions unless they already knew the answer to mine. They wanted to know how He mde the tree wither at once. For a group of men who would have known their Rabbi intimately, if every move was measured and never just spontaneous then the marvel was not that He zapped the tree but why! Why kill a tree for doing what trees do? It's a tee, it can do nothing else. Then He would have explained the deeper meaning as you did.
But Yeshua did not explain that. My contention is He didn't have to because they already knew. Everyone gets frustrated. Some throw things, some kick the dog. Yeshua zapped a tree.
I'm not saying either of us is right or wrong at this point. There are probably elements of truth in both. But on the main point, which is why kill a tree for not having fruit when He wanted it, one of us (or both) has to be right and one wrong. I'd like to know which. I came to MJ for the truth, no mater how uncomfortable. And I tend to get both (truth and uncomfortable) in large doses here! Even more uncomfortable there are times when the truth is elusive. In this case, I think our views of Yeshua may be the determining factor in what we ultimately take away here. You see Him more as God than man, and any interpretation of His actions must conform to that view. I see Him as fully God and fully human, and so can see Him reacting as we do to some very human circumstances. Now I must consider that both sides of His being are expressed here in this "simple" passage! And maybe I jump too quickly to the conclusion that your interpretation of why He killed the tree is from the anti-Semitic church fathers. I'm sure some of it is, as it follows far too closely with their interpretation. However even they weren't always wrong. I'll think about it.
Not sure if Matthew's account helps or just muddies the waters. But it does bring up a few more things we have to deal with.
Dan C
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Post by Elizabeth on Jun 23, 2019 3:47:54 GMT -8
But on the other hand we know G-d gets annoyed and emotional (passages throughout Exodus come to mind, especially after the golden calf), so a display of emotion is not necessarily only attrubutable to being human.
It's not that I think of Yeshua as unemotional or somehow less human; not at all. I just know He never could have been overcome by His emotions in a way that they ever got the better of Him as that would be sinful, so that's the basis for our difference of opinion.
This is a good conversation for me as I've been dealing with the place of emotions in my life as a follower for a while, and trying to figure out how to use them but in a humble and G-dly way. That's really hard when it comes to anger over what other people are doing as it negatively effects you and G-d. People tend to deal with emotions naturally by either giving into them at the expense of justice or shutting them off. Both have impacted my spiritual life in bad ways.
I think it's just really hard for us to relate to what He was doing because of our own human limitations, but I can't accept it was in anyway anything but intentional and deliberate because otherwise it would have been our definition of accident and therefore sinful.
I also don't think it's anti-Semitic as its speaking according to the truth that Yeshua was clearly upset with the state of Israel based on His actions in the Temple. Meanwhile, He went on to die for their sins. I'm not putting myself in any other boat than what I'm putting Jewish people in here as clearly I know He's done the same thing for me. If they got the Messiah they were expecting any wanting, they would have suffered the wrath of G-d like everyone else.
We need to be realistic and truthful. G-d is not currently happy with Israel, but it's not because He doesn't love them. It's because they are not fulfilling their calling. Consider all of us. Do you not think G-d is angry on our behalf that we're not welcome at a Jewish synagogue? Do you not think He's upset with them for cutting Yeshua out of the Moedim and Shabbat. What about all the Jewish people they've cut off because they accepted Yeshua? I'll tell a Gentile they've failed and are in need of spiritual salvation, and I'll tell a Jewish person the same thing. I don't see how that's anti-Semitic.
I understand the reservations you have as there is a lot of anti-Semetism in church history, and they picked out verses to hold Jewish people in derision while bolstering their own prideful position. That's not what I'm doing here. I'm just looking at the text for what it is as best I can with the understanding that we are all accountable, but it's speaking to and of Israel so I am to.
I personally feel a part of Israel so that gets into a whole nother issue of our difficulties speaking the truth and finding our place according to G-d's will for us as I don't f even feel I can include myself in the passage one way or the other without being painted with a broad stroke based on a history I no longer identify with and call out just as much if not more than Israel.
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Post by alon on Jun 23, 2019 9:28:50 GMT -8
Yes, God got frustrated, even angry with men on several occasions. He even wiped them off the face of the earth except for one family at one time. And I tend to agree with your assessment in those instances. The response was measured. Sometimes pretty harsh, but measured. Yeshua's spontaneous reaction is what made this a very human moment (assuming I'm right). But the fact is we are both speculating. The text doesn't say why He did it, and I know of no clues other than His character, which we are told about. And I'm not so sure a lot of this is left ambiguous so that we will dig in and learn. There are some good points in both our interpretations of this- points we'd not have shared had I not been curious about the incident.
For now this will go in my notes as 2 major possibilities. If you have more, by all means keep it going. But I am kind of at an impasse.
Dan C
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Post by jimmie on Jun 24, 2019 5:14:01 GMT -8
Mark 11:13 for it was not the season for figs.
Here is the key to understanding this passage. How ignorant is it to ride up to a fig tree to get something to eat when there is no possibility of getting anything. Well actually the ignorance lies with the reader. Fig trees bare two crops each year. The season for figs is the fall crop. However there is also a spring crop. The figs will begin to develop prior to the leaves coming on. The spring crop is the lesser of the two crops. Lesser in quality and quantity. The fact is the tree should have had figs on it.
Luke 16:10 He that is faithful in that which is least is faithful also in much: and he that is unjust in the least is unjust also in much.
This tree was not faithful in the least crop nor would it have been faithful in greater crop.
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Post by alon on Jun 24, 2019 5:41:31 GMT -8
Here is the key to understanding this passage. How ignorant is it to ride up to a fig tree to get something to eat when there is no possibility of getting anything. Well actually the ignorance lies with the reader. Fig trees bare two crops each year. The season for figs is the fall crop. However there is also a spring crop. The figs will begin to develop prior to the leaves coming on. The spring crop is the lesser of the two crops. Lesser in quality and quantity. The fact is the tree should have had figs on it. Luke 16:10 He that is faithful in that which is least is faithful also in much: and he that is unjust in the least is unjust also in much. This tree was not faithful in the least crop nor would it have been faithful in greater crop.
Why then go to the Temple, see what was going on, and give them a pass that day. Then the next react with such violence to clear it out?
And why insert this story of the fig tree between the two visits?
Dan C |
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Post by Elizabeth on Jun 24, 2019 6:44:13 GMT -8
Why does Yeshua have to come to earth twice? I guess we kind of get a pass this time if we let Him destroy sin in submission, but not the next so it doesn't seem so strange to me that one time He withholds wrath and the next He doesn't. Besides, He's a Jewish man and went to the Temple many times, it's only once He cleared it out. The timing is primary as He was preparing to leave us with our last chance of listening I think. Am I right in understanding we don't know when exactly the fig tree was cursed? It may have been before or after cleansing the temple, and I think we agree it ultimately doesnt matter when. What we know is the fig tree illustration is presented in the Bible with the cleansing of the Temple so based on its placement in both accounts, they're related. Also, the fact He didn't act spontaneously seems to illustrate all our points. I think if we see the tree as an illustration of His feelings toward the state of Israel as depicted in the happenings at the Temple, it's pretty consistent and His actions as well. He was upset that we weren't ready for Him, because the people needed Him. Meanwhile, next time He comes back, it will look a lot more like the impression He left them here. He was upset they werent regarding G-d rightly and what His leaving meant for all of them. Last chance to choose I think it's really good that He left this impression as it shows us what we need to be ready for and how G-d feels, and why He chose to die the first time. Yeshua is loving and good, but He's not playing around. We need to understand what it means that He acts against out sin. He suffered for it gruesomely, so how seriously does He take it? Depending on our hearts, He dies for it for it or we do. But if we die, this time, that's it. G-d isn't going to keep playing games with us. There's an end to the ness we're in. When is done away with, what's left to deal with sin. Nothing because Yeshua won't put up with it. Praise my G-d. That's what He was saying as I understand it, and I think He said it very well. We weren't even using correctly, now He's given Himself and the next time, He's done with sin, repentance, and second chances because He's done all He can in mercy. It's a depiction of His wrath, and I think it's a really good and fair of Him to show us how G-d feels about our situation and sin. He's angry people don't listen to Him, and hurt because we don't understand how serious out situation is. He hates to see us die and misuse of neglect the hope He's given us because He sees the end. Yeshua can save, and He's angry people don't get it. It's the stupidest decision anyone can make, to go to hell because there absolutely no reason for it. That's what I feel based on what He is doing in this passage. I think it's about His second coming and the confusion and unpreparedness of the people regarding it. They didn't realize their situation and need. |
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Post by jimmie on Jun 24, 2019 7:05:00 GMT -8
There is no question that the fig tree represents Israel. Most Christians use the death of the fig tree as a sedge way into replacement theology. I.e. the Jew is dead and now we have the Church. However, when the tree portion of a fig dies, the roots will send up shouts to start new trees.
This is merely an acting out of the parable of the fig tree:
Luke 13: 6He spake also this parable; A certain man had a fig tree planted in his vineyard; and he came and sought fruit thereon, and found none. 7Then said he unto the dresser of his vineyard, Behold, these three years I come seeking fruit on this fig tree, and find none: cut it down; why cumbereth it the ground? 8And he answering said unto him, Lord, let it alone this year also, till I shall dig about it, and dung it: 9And if it bear fruit, well: and if not, then after that thou shalt cut it down.
The tree had been dunged, or taught by Jesus and was not bearing him fruit. So he cut it down so it would re-sprout.
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Post by alon on Jun 24, 2019 16:45:46 GMT -8
You both make some excellent points and observations. I still struggle a little with the fact none of His talmidim asked Him why. If ever there was a moment that cried for yelamendu, this is it! But I find nothing wrong in your interpretations of this event. In fact, the two views (yours and mine) can be fit together as they stand. The act of cleansing the Temple was not spontaneous. It was planned and executed in a timely manner. His frustration with the fig was that He knew His time was near, yet in that tree He saw a picture of His people Israel. In fact, His frustration was not with the tree at all but with His people. The act of cursing the tree is there as a purposeful illustration (which is a big departure from my view). And I'd probably miss the bigger question too if I had just seen a tree wither and die right before my eyes. So this is yet another scenario that demands consideration. Good discussion.
Dan C
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Post by Elizabeth on Jun 25, 2019 5:12:46 GMT -8
Maybe this is one they just understood based on their familiarity with scripture? Israel was represented by a figs or a fig tree in several passages including prophecies. That causes me to think it would then have happened after the cleansing, but as you said somewhere in previous posts, this is speculative. It's just how I reconcile what you brought up.
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Post by alon on Jun 25, 2019 6:30:38 GMT -8
Maybe this is one they just understood based on their familiarity with scripture? Israel was represented by a figs or a fig tree in several passages including prophecies. That causes me to think it would then have happened after the cleansing, but as you said somewhere in previous posts, this is speculative. It's just how I reconcile what you brought up.
Dan C |
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Post by mosheli on Jul 6, 2019 17:12:51 GMT -8
(I hope it is alright to post without first posting an introduction thread/topic. It will take me awhile to know what to write in an introduction. Some other history forums etc i often didn't post any.) I haven't read all the replies in this thread yet but i have wondered this about the harshly cursing fig tree myself too sometimes. My thoughts were that either: 1: fig tree and vine type of OT Israel & NT church, so he was  /mad at Israel then because they hadn't been ready to accept him at the time/season. 2. Fig is type of male private part, and so "each person will have their own fig tree and vine" in millenium is maybe type of male and female marriage. So Jesus/Yeshua was showing he was feeling hurt he died without marriage and children (not meant in any heretical sense just the feeling). |
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/mad at Israel then because they hadn't been ready to accept him at the time/season.
