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Post by alon on Sept 3, 2016 2:00:31 GMT -8
Tongues
Long before the time of Yeshua, the ancient Rabbis’ equated water with . Tevilah was therefore a physical picture of a spiritual thing. To immerse yourself in the living waters of a mikvah was like immersing yourself in the living Word.
According to the Sages, is the Name of YHVH: "(He who) observes the ordinances of the and diligently studies it, it is as though he diligently studied the Divine Name. For the whole is an enfolding of the one Divine Name, the most exalted Name, the Name that comprehends all other names; and hence if one diminishes it, even by a single letter, it is as though he made a gap in the Divine Name." (Soncino Zohar, Shemoth, Section 2, Page 90b)
Matthew 28:19 (ESV) Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in [Or into] the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
When Yeshua says we are to be immersed into his name, he refers to His teaching. The was Yeshua's teaching, thus Yeshua is saying that those who wish to become his disciples must be immersed in . Going to the Word to see what we are baptized "into", we find that water is never the object of "into" in any of the baptism passages. Scriptures repeatedly use the preposition "into" ( Greek eis, or es) with baptism to teach that we are immersed not into water, but into Yeshua, who Himself is the Word.
Inserting "into" wherever "eis/es" appears in the Greek translations:
Matthew 3:11a (ESV) “I baptize you with into water for repentance,
Matthew 28:19 (ESV) Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in into the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
Mark 1:4 (ESV) John appeared, baptizing in the wilderness and proclaiming a baptism of repentance for into the forgiveness of sins.
Acts 2:38 (ESV) And Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for into the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
Acts 19:5 (ESV) On hearing this, they were baptized in into the name of the Lord Jesus.
Scripture further refers to our being baptized into Yeshua, not into water:
Romans 6:3 (ESV) Do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death?
Galatians 3:27 (ESV) For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
We also see that the Hebrews were baptized into Moshe:
1 Corinthians 10:2(ESV) and all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea,
This can only mean they were symbolically being prepared for , which was given to Moshe at Sinai soon after. So to be immersed, or to undergo tevilah (loosely, to be baptized) is to be immersed in , which is the Word. Immersion in a mikvah is only a representation of this.
So what about baptism of the Spirit? Well, first off this wasn’t just a “New Testament” thing. Long before Yeshua, Rabbi Judan said: "Whosoever teaches the publicly merits that the holy spirit should rest on him." (Midrash Rabbah - The Song of Songs I:9).
Now remember that the sages saw tevilah (baptism) the same as being immersed in . And I remember from my math classes that if a=b and b=c then a=c. Therefore being “baptized in the Spirit” is the same as having the Ruach resting upon you. When this happened you became a tzadik (holy, righteous one) and were given power. Real power, not just an emotional feeling of power. Power that enabled men:
Judges 6:34 (ESV) But the Spirit of the Lord clothed Gideon, and he sounded the trumpet, and the Abiezrites were called out to follow him.
1 Samuel 16:13 (ESV) Then Samuel took the horn of oil and anointed him in the midst of his brothers. And the Spirit of the Lord rushed upon David from that day forward. And Samuel rose up and went to Ramah.
Ezekiel 11:5 (ESV) And the Spirit of the Lord fell upon me, and he said to me, “Say, Thus says the Lord: So you think, O house of Israel. For I know the things that come into your mind.
Acts 1:8 (ESV) But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you, and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth.”
The Judges protected the young Hebrew nation, the prophets foretold events and confronted priests and kings, healed the sick and even brought the dead back to life. Hebrew kings had to themselves write two copies of and keep one with them at all times as they led the nation. And when those men in Acts received the power of the Ruach haKodesh, they didn’t just go to a Temple service and praise God; they went out and evangelized the world! They performed real healings while themselves suffering many abuses of the kind that might cause a normal man to lose faith. And I am going to propose that for the “New Testament” apostles, the baptism of the Ruach was the same as for their forefathers; a resting of the Ruach upon them.
But didn’t Yochanon the Immerser prophesy something different?
Mark 1:8 (ESV) I have baptized you with in water, but he will baptize you with into the Holy Spirit.”
Luke 3:16 (ESV) John answered them all, saying, “I baptize you with in water, but he who is mightier than I is coming, the strap of whose sandals I am not worthy to untie. He will baptize you with into the Holy Spirit and fire.
John 1:33 (ESV) I myself did not know him, but he who sent me to baptize with in water said to me, ‘He on whom you see the Spirit descend and remain, this is he who baptizes with into the Holy Spirit.’
Acts 1:5 (ESV) for John baptized with in water, but you will be baptized with into the Holy Spirit not many days from now.”
So no, he was talking about the same thing as those who had come before. When Elohenu Olam- Our Everlasting God said “For I, the Lord, do not change” (Malachi 3:6), Yochanon believed Him. Making this all the more significant is the fact Spirit baptism is consistently described throughout the B’rith Chadashah as the outpouring of the Ruach:
Acts 2:17a (ESV) “‘And in the last days it shall be, God declares, that I will pour out my Spirit on all flesh,
Acts 2:18 (ESV) even on my male servants and female servants in those days I will pour out my Spirit, and they shall prophesy.
Acts 2:33 (ESV) Being therefore exalted at the right hand of God, and having received from the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, he has poured out this that you yourselves are seeing and hearing. Acts 10:45 (ESV) And the believers from among the circumcised who had come with Peter were amazed, because the gift of the Holy Spirit was poured out even on the Gentiles.
Romans 5:5 (ESV) and hope does not put us to , because God's love has been poured into our hearts through the Holy Spirit who has been given to us. Titus 3:5-6 (ESV) he saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit, whom he poured out on us richly through Jesus Christ our Savior,
So the tevilah of Yochanon in water is repeatedly compared to tevilah of Yeshua into His Ruach, which itself is repeatedly said to be a pouring out of His Ruach. a=b=c. Yeshua was actually saying we should be immersed in His , in which case we will receive an outpouring of His Ruach. And this is available to anyone who reads and keeps the mitzvoth. Why then are we not seeing real prophecy and healings today? Simple- no one is studying and keeping like those great men of the Bible did. When I research and write for the forum, I sometimes get insights I think can only be from Elohim. But they are nothing like what is often described in scripture. And I know I am nowhere near to keeping the mitzvoth like those men did either. But is this the only reason? I think not. We must also realize we are not all the same, and don’t all have the same calling:
Exodus 31:1-3 (ESV) The Lord said to Moses, “See, I have called by name Bezalel the son of Uri, son of Hur, of the tribe of Judah, and I have filled him with the Spirit of God, with ability and intelligence, with knowledge and all craftsmanship,
So was Bezalel the only righteous man in the camp? The only one keeping the mitzvoth? No, there were Moshe, Calev, Yehoshuah, just to name a very few. So why single out Bezalel for this outpouring of skills and a closer relationship with El Elyon? Probably because he was being given the task of overseeing the construction of the Mishkan. This was to be the house of YHVH Immeka- The Lord With You in the wilderness. Everything had to be perfect. This would require he commune closely with his Elohim, receiving and understanding clearly His instructions. He needed not only an extra helping of skill but a lot more discernment and judgement as well.
Acts 2:1-13 (ESV) 1 When the day of Pentecost arrived, they were all together in one place. 2 And suddenly there came from heaven a sound like a mighty rushing wind, and it filled the entire house where they were sitting. 3 And divided tongues as of fire appeared to them and rested on each one of them. 4 And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues as the Spirit gave them utterance. 5 Now there were dwelling in Jerusalem Jews, devout men from every nation under heaven. 6 And at this sound the multitude came together, and they were bewildered, because each one was hearing them speak in his own language. 7 And they were amazed and astonished, saying, “Are not all these who are speaking Galileans? 8 And how is it that we hear, each of us in his own native language? 9 Parthians and Medes and Elamites and residents of Mesopotamia, Judea and Cappadocia, Pontus and Asia, 10 Phrygia and Pamphylia, Egypt and the parts of Libya belonging to Cyrene, and visitors from Rome, 11 both Jews and proselytes, Cretans and Arabians—we hear them telling in our own tongues the mighty works of God.” 12 And all were amazed and perplexed, saying to one another, “What does this mean?” 13 But others mocking said, “They are filled with new wine.”
Everyone there knew something supernatural was happening. Even those who denied it knew it because it doesn’t say they disbelieved, only that they mocked- as we might expect a man in denial to do. Note too that everyone there understood the apostles as they spoke. The contemporary idea of tongues is to babble something and someone else “interprets” so that everyone can know what was said. This is the exact opposite of what happened in Acts ch. 2. The Ruach settled upon these men, the visable evidence of which was tongues of fire and the auditory evidence was “suddenly there came from heaven a sound like a mighty rushing wind, and it filled the entire house where they were sitting.” That all men present understood what they were saying in their own tongue was not the primary evidence of anything- it was a RESULT of the Ruach immersing these men in the power of YHVH Kadash- The Lord Who Sanctifies.
1 Corinthians 13:1 (ESV) If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal.
There; doesn’t that say we can speak with the tongues of angels? No. In the first place, an angel we know from the Hebrew in the TNK is a messenger. It can be a heavenly messenger, a Rabbi or pastor, or just a man with a message. “But, but … GR-E-E-E-E-E-E-K!?” Ok, Greek:
G32 ἄγγελος aggelos ang'-el-os From ἀγγέλλω aggellō (probably derived from G71; compare G34; to bring tidings); a messenger; especially an angel; by implication a pastor: - angel, messenger.
Well drat! (And other bad words …). But the understanding doesn’t end there:
The word for “tongues” here is “ gloce'.” It is where we get the psychological term glossolalia from:
glossolalia (ˌɡlɒsəˈleɪlɪə) n 1. (Ecclesiastical Terms) another term for gift of tongues 2. (Psychology) psychol babbling in a nonexistent language 3. incomprehensible speech sometimes occurring in a hypnotic trance or in an episode of religious ecstasy. Compare speaking in tongues.
By comparison what happened in Acts 2 was an example of Xenoglossy, “the putative paranormal phenomenon in which a person is able to speak or write a language he or she could not have acquired by natural means.”
Now since the text says “tongues of men and of angels” it would appear that this is not just unintelligible babbling or a self-induced ecstatic sense of euphoria. And by the way, whenever heavenly messengers appeared here on earth and spoke with someone, they were always understood. The only instance I can think of where a “heavenly language” was used and an interpreter required was when Daniel had to interpret the writing on the wall for Melech Belshatzar. Certainly Belshatzar wasn’t babbling this for his own edification or to pray this prayer to Elohim. Note also this is a different thing than interpretation of inspired dreams.
1 Corinthians 14:27-28 (ESV) If any speak in a tongue, let there be only two or at most three, and each in turn, and let someone interpret. But if there is no one to interpret, let each of them keep silent in church and speak to himself and to God.
This is used not only as “proof” of the gift of tongues, but also as the formula for the use of this “gift.” Let me ask, if tongues are from Elohim, and quenching the gift is to therefore “quench the Spirit,” how is it you would first have to ask if there is an interpreter handy? “But you wouldn’t!” No, probably not since almost always someone in a Pentecostal service would “interpret” for you. But in the scripture above the speaker is to know beforehand there is someone there to interpret. How can this be known if you are about to speak in a heavenly language?
I have witnessed the embarrassment of some who spoke out and no one “interpreted” for them. I’ve also witnessed people “interpret” according to their own pet peeves. My mother’s family are Pentecostal, and I’ve been to many Pentecostal services in their and other churches. I’ve seen a lot of tongues spoken, but never have I witnessed anything I thought was supernaturally inspired. I’ve heard of a couple instances that, if they are true (and I have no reason to doubt the ones who witnessed and told me about them); then those were real. But in both cases the tongues spoken were known, intelligible languages understood by those they were meant to edify. They were xenoglossia, not glossolalia.
I’ve also had very devout men try to convince me to let them “teach” me to speak in tongues. Really? My response is always “If it is from God, no one will have to teach me to do it.” And being taught (or for that matter teaching others) is to me proof you do NOT have the gift!
So as you may by now suspect, I do not believe in the modern practice of “speaking in tongues.” I think it is an emotional attempt to get close to God instead of doing what He said to do to get close to Him- STUDY ! KEEP THE MITZVOTH! Glossolalia is in fact proof that there is something lacking in Christianity. If the only way you can get close to God is through a self-induced trance, then you are worshiping as the pagans do. And more and more denominations I’d never have believed could are embracing this trend; from Baptists to Catholics and all points on the spiritual compass. Even some Messianic lite, who are generally just Christians in tallitoth. In fact, I believe that when they enter this trance-like state, just as other pagans the Christian opens himself to demonic influences.
Study . Keep the mitzvoth. Then you will draw closer to Elohe Chaseddi- The God of My Mercy, and He will draw closer to you; His presence resting on you, and you will undergo tevilah of the Ruach.
Dan C
Rav S did a teaching tonight, and I did some further research in addition to my research and experiences over the years, and I wrote it up. So this is part his, part my studies , some agreement and a little disagreement (about 50/50 his/mine).
edit: I cleaned this up a little, since I finished it sometime around 3:00 this morning. And my comp was really going haywire then for some reason so I was getting frustrated trying to work. LOL, I have to admit that at times I was NOT in the Spirit! But I got ahold of my emotions and continued. Hopefully it was something akin to xenoglossy, not glossolassy when I was done.
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Post by garrett on Sept 3, 2016 5:19:16 GMT -8
Dan - THANK YOU for writing this. This information is way overdue and it's put together better than I could have done it. Over time I've become convinced that "speaking in tongues" is bogus. I've been in a million scenarios in my past life where this was practiced. I just scratched my head the whole time, for the reasons you mentioned above.
And yes, many in Messianic lite practice it. I've seen this before as well.
Thanks for putting this together - garrett
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Post by alon on Sept 3, 2016 13:41:57 GMT -8
Dan - THANK YOU for writing this. This information is way overdue and it's put together better than I could have done it. Over time I've become convinced that "speaking in tongues" is bogus. I've been in a million scenarios in my past life where this was practiced. I just scratched my head the whole time, for the reasons you mentioned above. And yes, many in Messianic lite practice it. I've seen this before as well. Thanks for putting this together - garrett
garrett, you are welcome. Doing these studies is part of how I observe Shabbath. I love doing them, as well as writing them up. And since Shabbath is Kadosh, set aside for Elohim, this keeps me occupied in His Word. Study , keep the mitzvoth. And rest assured the enemy will try (sometimes with too much success in my case) to trip you up and redirect your thoughts from El to thinking bad things about your computer. Ah well, as the Pentacostals would say, "Count it all glory!"
I cleaned it up and added just a little, so you might want to read it again (or not- this was a LONG post. I just hope the moderator doesn't give me a warning about it).
Dan C
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Tongues
Sept 3, 2016 21:18:01 GMT -8
Post by Questor on Sept 3, 2016 21:18:01 GMT -8
Tongues
Long before the time of Yeshua, the ancient Rabbis’ equated water with . Tevilah was therefore a physical picture of a spiritual thing. To immerse yourself in the living waters of a mikvah was like immersing yourself in the living Word.
According to the Sages, is the Name of YHVH: "(He who) observes the ordinances of the and diligently studies it, it is as though he diligently studied the Divine Name. For the whole is an enfolding of the one Divine Name, the most exalted Name, the Name that comprehends all other names; and hence if one diminishes it, even by a single letter, it is as though he made a gap in the Divine Name." (Soncino Zohar, Shemoth, Section 2, Page 90b)
Is this why the Sages often reference the Messiah as being named YHVH? And why this would pertain particularly to Yeshua?
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Tongues
Sept 3, 2016 21:33:09 GMT -8
Post by Questor on Sept 3, 2016 21:33:09 GMT -8
I have come to understand that I speak in a way I do not understand if I choose to do so, as simply as turning a switch on and off...one language sounding similar in pattern and sound to Native American Languages, another when singing in a Latin patterned and sounding language that I understand the gist of, just as I asked to.
I have no impulse to do so in public, and wouldn't embaress myself or others by claiming to have a 'word' in an unknown tongue for anyone. I figure if G-d wants me to tell something to someone, He can let me know directly, since I have no difficulty hearing from Him.
I don't ever speak them without conscious desire, but feel absolute no need to do it at any time...I just can, and sometimes do, particularly after being reminded that Sha'ul did so, and dutifully comply to what seems to be prompting from the Ruach.
At times, I find that singing in my musical foreign language is restful, and mostly laudatory of G-d, but so far as I know serves no purpose, while the spoken tongue seems useless except to pray for things I did not know I needed to pray for, but the Ruach did, and I get fresh music with the singing versions, too.
What am I doing then? I requested the gift from the Ruach only about 18 years ago, and have never even been in a church much...much less a Pentacostal one. I am not overly attached to the phenomena, but it's real enough, and not hypnotic...heck, I can read in English, and speak or sing in the other languages at the same time...it is my conscious mind completely disconnected from my vocal chords and mouth, and saying...something.
And when someone goes into a full fledged stream of Aramaic, sounding very rusty when starting, and then getting amazingly smooth and fluent (That I can recognize these days, but not speak, as it has some similarities with Hebrew.) for no known reason, is that by the Ruach, or just a weird moment?
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Tongues
Sept 3, 2016 22:25:09 GMT -8
Post by alon on Sept 3, 2016 22:25:09 GMT -8
Tongues
Long before the time of Yeshua, the ancient Rabbis’ equated water with . Tevilah was therefore a physical picture of a spiritual thing. To immerse yourself in the living waters of a mikvah was like immersing yourself in the living Word.
According to the Sages, is the Name of YHVH: "(He who) observes the ordinances of the and diligently studies it, it is as though he diligently studied the Divine Name. For the whole is an enfolding of the one Divine Name, the most exalted Name, the Name that comprehends all other names; and hence if one diminishes it, even by a single letter, it is as though he made a gap in the Divine Name." (Soncino Zohar, Shemoth, Section 2, Page 90b)
Is this why the Sages often reference the Messiah as being named YHVH? And why this would pertain particularly to Yeshua?
Well, you'd have to give me your references before I could answer that.
Dan C
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Tongues
Sept 3, 2016 23:07:18 GMT -8
Post by alon on Sept 3, 2016 23:07:18 GMT -8
I have come to understand that I speak in a way I do not understand if I choose to do so, as simply as turning a switch on and off...one language sounding similar in pattern and sound to Native American Languages, another when singing in a Latin patterned and sounding language that I understand the gist of, just as I asked to.
I have no impulse to do so in public, and wouldn't embaress myself or others by claiming to have a 'word' in an unknown tongue for anyone. I figure if G-d wants me to tell something to someone, He can let me know directly, since I have no difficulty hearing from Him.
I don't ever speak them without conscious desire, but feel absolute no need to do it at any time...I just can, and sometimes do, particularly after being reminded that Sha'ul did so, and dutifully comply to what seems to be prompting from the Ruach.
Apparently you are familiar with the sound of some Native American language, as well as Latin, so these might be an easy thing to immulate. But I doubt any heavenly language would sound like either, nor especially alternate between the two. And both are the languages of pagan cultures, so again I'd warn against demonic influences. Now this is not to be disrespectful of either Naative Americans or Romans/Italians. I have said many times I came out of paganism when I came into Messianiic Judaism. Thee are only two kinds of people in God's eyes- pagans and Jews. I am now a proselyte to a sect of Judasim. Ya'll are all pagans!
1 Corinthians 14:18 (ESV) I thank God that I speak in tongues more than all of you.
That should more likely read "I thank God that I xenoglossy more than all of you." It does say in at least some source documents "gloseah." But Rav Sha'ul was an extremely well educated man and he spoke many languages. Intelligible languages. And while he rambled, went through all kinds of contortions and confused the heck out of most of us, he NEVER babbled! And he also said just before that:
1 Corinthians 14:8 (ESV) And if the bugle gives an indistinct sound, who will get ready for battle?
Well, if you want to understand, reread my post.
I generally just ask the Ruach to pray for me, and to make sure He understands I speak English. If I spoke Hebrew I'd use that, but ...
I've seen hypnotized people stand on one leg, pat themselves on the head and cluck like a chicken at the same time. I can't do any of those things nor the things you said at the same time, my not being hypnotized and all. And while we are on the topic, driving and texting is not multitasking either. It's just really stupid! (Sorry, I just got sidetracked with a pet peeve- maybe I'll go with my wife tomorrow and hope someone glossololiizes and I can jump up and interpret ... I know, I'm going to hell ).
We sing in Hebrew (the words are put up on the wall), and when I visit the parent synagogue of this forum they say prayers and liturgies in Hebrew REALLY fast. It often takes me a bit to reacquaint my tongue (the physical thing, not the babbling thing ... unless I'm off my meds again ) but anyhow I have to re-get used to speaking (reading) Hebrew in some kind of intelligible fashion. So no, what you describe is neither of the Ruach nor is it weird. It's just how we are.
Dan (speechless ... well, not really) C
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Post by alon on Sept 4, 2016 12:58:42 GMT -8
1 Corinthians 14:18 (ESV) I thank God that I speak in tongues more than all of you.
That should more likely read "I thank God that I xenoglossy more than all of you." It does say in at least some source documents "gloseah." But Rav Sha'ul was an extremely well educated man and he spoke many languages. Intelligible languages. And while he rambled, went through all kinds of contortions and confused the heck out of most of us, he NEVER babbled! And he also said just before that:
1 Corinthians 14:8 (ESV) And if the bugle gives an indistinct sound, who will get ready for battle?
I just need to be more clear here:
G1100 γλῶσσα glōssa gloce'-sah Of uncertain affinity; the tongue; by implication a language (specifically one naturally unacquired): - tongue.
"gloce" IS the Greek term for an intelligible language as well as an unintelligible one; it can be one learned naturally. If Rav Sha'ul had been speaking in a tongue "unknown" to him, since his whole purpose in life after his conversion was to spread the gospel, he would have been speaking (like those men in Acts) in a language that SOMEONE there understood as his native tongue- to wit, xenoglossia! He was a very serious man. I just don't see Rav Sha'ul wasting his time and looking foolish babbling something no one understood and everyone could see was no language at all.
Dan C
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Tongues
Sept 4, 2016 15:41:44 GMT -8
Post by Questor on Sept 4, 2016 15:41:44 GMT -8
I have come to understand that I speak in a way I do not understand if I choose to do so, as simply as turning a switch on and off...one language sounding similar in pattern and sound to Native American Languages, another when singing in a Latin patterned and sounding language that I understand the gist of, just as I asked to.
I have no impulse to do so in public, and wouldn't embaress myself or others by claiming to have a 'word' in an unknown tongue for anyone. I figure if G-d wants me to tell something to someone, He can let me know directly, since I have no difficulty hearing from Him.
I don't ever speak them without conscious desire, but feel absolute no need to do it at any time...I just can, and sometimes do, particularly after being reminded that Sha'ul did so, and dutifully comply to what seems to be prompting from the Ruach.
Apparently you are familiar with the sound of some Native American language, as well as Latin, so these might be an easy thing to immulate. But I doubt any heavenly language would sound like either, nor especially alternate between the two. And both are the languages of pagan cultures, so again I'd warn against demonic influences. Now this is not to be disrespectful of either Naative Americans or Romans/Italians. I have said many times I came out of paganism when I came into Messianiic Judaism. Thee are only two kinds of people in God's eyes- pagans and Jews. I am now a proselyte to a sect of Judasim. Ya'll are all pagans!
1 Corinthians 14:18 (ESV) I thank God that I speak in tongues more than all of you.
That should more likely read "I thank God that I xenoglossy more than all of you." It does say in at least some source documents "gloseah." But Rav Sha'ul was an extremely well educated man and he spoke many languages. Intelligible languages. And while he rambled, went through all kinds of contortions and confused the heck out of most of us, he NEVER babbled! And he also said just before that:
1 Corinthians 14:8 (ESV) And if the bugle gives an indistinct sound, who will get ready for battle?
Well, if you want to understand, reread my post.
I generally just ask the Ruach to pray for me, and to make sure He understands I speak English. If I spoke Hebrew I'd use that, but ...
I've seen hypnotized people stand on one leg, pat themselves on the head and cluck like a chicken at the same time. I can't do any of those things nor the things you said at the same time, my not being hypnotized and all. And while we are on the topic, driving and texting is not multitasking either. It's just really stupid! (Sorry, I just got sidetracked with a pet peeve- maybe I'll go with my wife tomorrow and hope someone glossololiizes and I can jump up and interpret ... I know, I'm going to hell ).
We sing in Hebrew (the words are put up on the wall), and when I visit the parent synagogue of this forum they say prayers and liturgies in Hebrew REALLY fast. It often takes me a bit to reacquaint my tongue (the physical thing, not the babbling thing ... unless I'm off my meds again ) but anyhow I have to re-get used to speaking (reading) Hebrew in some kind of intelligible fashion. So no, what you describe is neither of the Ruach nor is it weird. It's just how we are.
Dan (speechless ... well, not really) C
Well, I don't feel terribly impassioned about what I can do...Native American languages are incredibly distinct from other languages, but there are hundreds of them...so very hard to find out which one I am being gifted with...if it is a gift. As for the singing...it's a Latin based language, like French/Spanish/Italian in the pattern of the words, and the root words/verbs, etc., but not like French and Spanish, which I already know enough of to tell them apart...Italian as well.
I asked G-d for the ability to understand what I sing, since I am also receiving the music...and very pretty music it is sometimes, and since it only praises G-d I rather wonder at it being derived from the Adversary...unless he is lending me his pipes and tabrets as well, in which case I would expect a better singing voice too!
Still, I don't claim it does anything at all...it just is there, and I occasionally use it when reminded to by the Ruach, which admittedly, is pretty infrequently. But I have no trouble getting music and words in English either. I just have to pay attention, which I don't when singing in the unknown language.
I would infinitely prefer to be able to speak, and have anyone of any language understand me miraculously.
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Tongues
Sept 4, 2016 15:43:24 GMT -8
Post by Questor on Sept 4, 2016 15:43:24 GMT -8
Well, you'd have to give me your references before I could answer that.
Dan C
I would love to, but can't find the quotes...it was about some of the Rabbi's saying that Messiah ben David would also have the Name YHVH.
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Tongues
Sept 6, 2016 12:26:19 GMT -8
Post by chrisg on Sept 6, 2016 12:26:19 GMT -8
Very interesting and informative. I have been reading about this recently myself and came across a very good article. Am I allowed to post a link, or would you prefer to vet it first?
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Tongues
Sept 6, 2016 15:45:27 GMT -8
Post by alon on Sept 6, 2016 15:45:27 GMT -8
Very interesting and informative. I have been reading about this recently myself and came across a very good article. Am I allowed to post a link, or would you prefer to vet it first? Since it is probably from a website that teaches another denominations doctrines, I probably should vet it if you think you need to put the whole thing up. However you may quote the website (just don't give the link) and ask about specific things they say. I don't know when I'll get time to read an article right now, so just asking about specifics would be the faster way by far.
Dan C
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Tongues
Sept 6, 2016 23:37:45 GMT -8
Post by chrisg on Sept 6, 2016 23:37:45 GMT -8
Very interesting and informative. I have been reading about this recently myself and came across a very good article. Am I allowed to post a link, or would you prefer to vet it first? Since it is probably from a website that teaches another denominations doctrines, I probably should vet it if you think you need to put the whole thing up. However you may quote the website (just don't give the link) and ask about specific things they say. I don't know when I'll get time to read an article right now, so just asking about specifics would be the faster way by far.
Dan C
It's from a MJ website called Beth Goyim. I will send you the link as there was such a lot in it, it would be difficult to pick bits out to quote.
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Tongues
Sept 7, 2016 8:39:34 GMT -8
Post by alon on Sept 7, 2016 8:39:34 GMT -8
Since it is probably from a website that teaches another denominations doctrines, I probably should vet it if you think you need to put the whole thing up. However you may quote the website (just don't give the link) and ask about specific things they say. I don't know when I'll get time to read an article right now, so just asking about specifics would be the faster way by far.
Dan C
It's from a MJ website called Beth Goyim. I will send you the link as there was such a lot in it, it would be difficult to pick bits out to quote.
Very good article. Go ahead and post.
Dan C
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Post by chrisg on Sept 7, 2016 10:34:53 GMT -8
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