Discussion on Witnessing

[alon]

I'm starting this as a spinoff on another discussion:

theloveofgod.proboards.com/thread/1928/ex-01-06-moshes-resistance?page=1&scrollTo=18119

How we witness to others would seem to me to be an important topic to discuss and understand. We as Messianics have a greater job than most, because we first and foremost must witness to the lost. However we also must witness to Christians as to why they should adopt a observant lifestyle. We may later break this into two topics, but first let's just start with some general discussion on witnessing. For example, how might we broach the subject initially?

Obviously at times they might give the opening by stating their beliefs: "I don't believe in God" or "I worship 'ahazamatrazillahtron'". goddesses are also popular these days. Others may tell you quite proudly that they are Christians and all that "Old Testament" stuff is done away with. So, what do we do, besides repressing our desire to scream "You're wrong!" in their face?

Dan C

[Elizabeth]

This is tricky for me because I am still trying to figure out how to live out -observance myself, and I am not as well versed in scripture as I should be. I will just share a story that left me confounded and uncomfortable.

A Lutheran Pastor and I were talking about a teaching they have that, "there is no need for a physical Israel." He never came out and said point blank "because the church replaced the nation" but clearly that was what he was getting at. Prior to this point, I was questioning some inconsistencies they have. They say they observe the Sabbath, but they don't, even if it were a Sunday. Why they follow The Ten Commandments, but not the rest of them. Also, when the disciples asked Yeshua if he would restore the kingdom, Yeshua told them it was not for them to know, so there must be more yet to the Kingdom. It was really hard actually because even though he didn't realize it, what he was saying was really disturbing, so I got a bit emotional. Anyway, I ended the conversation on the verge of tears with something along the lines of, " I do believe there needs to be a physical Israel, and we have a G-d who is faithful". Meanwhile, at some point, he handed me a book about "one G-d, two covenants". Don't ask me about it I never read it, because I feel I have enough to sort out already. I am trying to get the courage up just to go back there and return it because I feel like I made such a scene.

I don't really go out seeking people to witness to, for example, walking around the mall or something. When people have approached me like that in the past, it was off-putting because it felt intrusive.  I was immediately suspicious of them. I do talk openly about my G-d and make it clear to the people around me that he is central. If they hang around me long enough after that, they will find out I am Messianic.  They will also find out I have a hard time explaining exactly what Messianic means and looks like.  They will notice I have a lot to do with G-d but nothing to do with a church and stop inviting me out on Saturdays. People who stick around, for the most part, have just been curious or interested. You mentioned G-d using our weaknesses for his glory in the previous thread, I think in his mercy ,he has used my insecurity to help people feel safe talking with me about Him. I have made several close friends, who aren't religiously affiliated, but want to be close to G-d.  I think they see me fumbling around and it just takes the pressure off. 

[alon]

Oct 27, 2014 13:37:37 GMT -8 Elizabeth said:

This is tricky for me because I am still trying to figure out how to live out -observance myself, and I am not as well versed in scripture as I should be. ...

I too am still learning. That is why I tell people I am a "proselyte" to Messianic Judaism. I can't tell them all about it either, but I can share what I do know, and how freeing it is for me. How wonderful it is to find the truth of God's Word.

I don't really go out seeking people to witness to, for example, walking around the mall or something. When people have approached me like that in the past, it was off-putting because it felt intrusive.

I just talk to those who God puts in my path who are willing to listen. We don't have to be obnoxious about it. For example, when either a non-believer or a Christian tells you of their beliefs, just ask a simple question: "If you were wrong, wouldn't you want to know about it?" They may say "Yes" or "Of course". Then you have permission to tell them. Or they may proceed to tell you why they are right. Just listen, and at the end repeat part of their argument and ask "Well, you said 'XXX'." If that was wrong, wouldn't you like to know why?" If they say yes, then again, take that as permission to speak. Respectfully but firmly tell them the truth.

If they say no, or are adamant about their position, then leave it. You are not responsible to tell those who don't want to hear.

Mat 10:14 And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet.

I was immediately suspicious of them. I do talk openly about my G-d and make it clear to the people around me that he is central. If they hang around me long enough after that, they will find out I am Messianic.  They will also find out I have a hard time explaining exactly what Messianic means and looks like. They will notice I have a lot to do with G-d but nothing to do with a church and stop inviting me out on Saturdays. People who stick around, for the most part, have just been curious or interested. You mentioned G-d using our weaknesses for his glory in the previous thread, I think in his mercy ,he has used my insecurity to help people feel safe talking with me about Him. I have made several close friends, who aren't religiously affiliated, but want to be close to G-d. I think they see me fumbling around and it just takes the pressure off.

I'm sure God can and does use our personality traits, including our insecurities, as a means of our witness for Him. And as you learn more He'll use that knowledge and the confidence it brings as well. This was in fact how His Word was recorded. He raised up men with distinct personalities and ways of seeing things to use as prophets. He then revealed His Word to them and/or used them as witnesses to events and they retold what He said or what they saw as accurately as they could. But in each book, the personality of the prophet or the observer, as well as the characters involved, came through. God did not simply dictate His Word. He used men whose own fears and failings often came to light. So if in Melech Dovid for example, we see his many failings, and yet he could write the majority of the Psalms, so can God use us to witness to others.

My memory is going, so I am working on a project to help me witness. I actually got the idea from a movie I saw at the AoG church where I go with my wife (who is the original resistant subject when it comes to the truth of the Word). God has a plan for every circumstance He puts us in, and maybe this film was part of the reason I live in a divided household. But it was pretty good as far as witnessing techniques.

I highlight passages in these cheap (about $2.00/copy) Bibles. Then I put mimeographed cheat notes in them so I can refer to topics I want to discuss. I look it up, then hand it to them and have them read the verse or passage. Then ask, "What does that mean to you?" That way they not only read the Word themselves, and since it is highlighted they get the part I wanted them too; but they also must think about it to reply. And most importantly the Ruach can work on them without having to talk over me. Listen to what they say, and don't interrupt. When they are finished, you may point out something else to them- or better yet just ask questions, gently leading them to the truth. Because if they see it and say it, they will own it. If you say it for them they may want to argue, even if they see it is true.

I already have a short, simple plan of salvation done, as well as a long, more detailed one I refer to for those who have questions. But I always try and bring it back to the simple one. Those were already done, so it was really just a matter of highlighting the scriptures and photocopying the reference sheets.

A little more complex is trying to catalog all the reasons a Christian should be Observant. For now I just use the (sort of) short document I prepared for the AoG pastor about 'Paul' being a Observant Jew AFTER his conversion. But I think I need more than just this. So this sheet and the corresponding scriptures may be a bit of a work in progress.

If we want to get into specifics on what we use for either non-believers or Christians, we should probably start two sister threads to keep things better organized. I'll go ahead and do that now so this thread doesn't become bogged down and erratic.

Dan C

edit: "I'll go ahead and do that now ..."

Done:

theloveofgod.proboards.com/thread/3533/witness-christian

theloveofgod.proboards.com/thread/3532/witness-non-believer

[alon]

So, let's go through my notes from the movie (actually done in segments, which made it easy to break down for discussion here if anyone wants).

First is obviously prayer. Pray for people to be put in your path that you can witness to. You may also pray for specific people; for the Ruach to prepare their hearts and give you an opening or opportunity. And don't forget that it may be others who God can use more effectively, so don't get too wrapped up in self that you forget to pray for the person and not you. Yet at the same time this is no excuse. The saying "If not you, then who? If not now when?" applies. You need to pray too for the courage and the compassion to speak up.

Pray for a passion to reach both unbelievers and as Messianics to reach Christians with the message of observance and worshiping as God said, not as men say to do it.

Josh 1:9 Haven't I ordered you, 'Be strong, be bold'? So don't be afraid or downhearted, because ADONAI your God is with you wherever you go."

Realize it is a partnership between you and God. And you are the junior partner! It is the Ruach who does the work, who decides what opportunities to put in your path. And it is between them and God what decision(s) they make- and when. 'It is not your strengths, but your dependence on God that will bring people to Him.'

Acts 1:8 But you will receive power when the Ruach HaKodesh comes upon you; you will be my witnesses both in Yerushalayim and in all Y'hudah and Shomron, indeed to the ends of the earth!"

We need to learn to tap into this power by prayer and by facing our fears, trusting God and moving forward to witness to the lost and to those who may be perishing in false doctrine.

That was segment One.

Dan C

[alon]

The next step is to get used to turning your conversations to spiritual things.

Be ready if they start this or open leads into the spiritual. This sounds obvious, but most of us miss most of these opportunities. We need to train our minds to a mindset of speaking up whenever we get the opportunity. Often they'll voice opinions which are way off the mark. A simple question might open the door to you to witness:

"If you were wrong, wouldn't you want to know it?" or,
"If what you believe is not true, wouldn't you want to know about it?"

Another good question if you need to lead into spiritual discussion is just to ask them:

"What are your spiritual beliefs?"

Other good leading questions:

"To you, who is Yeshua?"
"If you were to die right now, what would happen to you?"

Whatever you ask them, when they answer, just listen. Don't interrupt. But do show that you are actively listening and trying to comprehend their beliefs.

Try NOT to ask questions that might make them defensive, like:

"Do you believe in God?"
"Are you a Christian?"
"I'm Messianic, what are you?"

So, any other good leading questions? Maybe some things we should NOT say/ask?

Dan C

[alon]

The next thing is to learn to let God speak through His Word. I have several scriptural plans for bringing people to trust in Yeshua. But the key thing brought up by this class/dvd was to let the person you are witnessing to read the scripture aloud to you, and then let them tell you what it means. Your only response while they read should be a of acknowledgment or an "uh-huh". Let them talk, then when they are done respond only if necessary. Otherwise go on to the next scripture. NEVER argue!

This leads them to a better understanding and allows God to speak to them directly through His Word without you getting in the way.

I'm going to share one "New Testament" version of the plan of salvation because it is easier to carry a pocket New Testament with you. It is actually the one the dvd recommended, but modified to stress repentance and obedience as it was a Christian dvd, and we are Messianic.

Romans 3:23,24
Romans 6:23
John 3:3
John 14:6
Romans 10:9-11
Luke 13:3
2 Corinthians 5:15
Revelation 3:20

Those are the steps to salvation. Then the first step to obedience is is:

Mark 16:6

If anyone has an alternate scriptural list for sharing the plan of salvation, or wants to discuss the scriptures listed, feel free to jump in.

Dan C

[Miykhael]

B”H
What did Paul call himself? Did he call himself a christian or a messianic?

[alon]

Acts 24:5 For we have found this man a pestilent fellow, and a mover of sedition among all the Jews throughout the world, and a ringleader of the sect of the Nazarenes:

The Natsarim, or notsrim, are the Jewish sect which the present day Messianic movement tries to model itself after. So Rav Sha'ul would have been an early Messianic. The term "Christian" was used twice in the Bible, and at the time was a derogatory term hurled at anyone who believed in Yeshua.


Acts 26:28 Then Agrippa said unto Paul, Almost thou persuadest me to be a Christian.

1 Peter 4:16 Yet if any man suffer as a Christian, let him not be ashamed; but let him glorify God on this behalf.

In the first case, Agrippa mocks Rav Sha'ul, and in the second Rav S says when mocked thus don't be ashamed, but glorify God in your belief.

When he called himself anything it was a P'rush: Act 23:6 But when Paul perceived that the one part were Sadducees, and the other Pharisees, he cried out in the council, Men and brethren, I am a Pharisee, the son of a Pharisee: of the hope and resurrection of the dead I am called in question.

Rav Sha'ul was a 1st cen CE Jew first and always, and so identified with the Jewish sect of the Natsarim. Christian churches didn't even crop up until the second cen CE, and they were extremely anti-Semitic, so none of the Notsrim would have anything to do with them. So in modern day terms, "Paul" was Messianic, not Christian.

Now, how are you relating this to witnessing?

Dan C

Correction: the term "Christian" was used once more, but in the plural.

Act 11:26 And when he had found him, he brought him unto Antioch. And it came to pass, that a whole year they assembled themselves with the church, and taught much people. And the disciples were called Christians first in Antioch.

[alon]

One of the things this DVD suggested doing was to highlight the scriptures you want to use to witness in your Bible. It also suggested writing the next scripture in the order of presentation at the top right hand corner of the page. These two things allow you to find te scripture fast. It also allows you to give the Bible to them and have the person read the scripture themselves. Highlighting makes it far less likely that they'll end up on the wrong scripture. I take the additional step of running the scriptures off on a sheet of paper and putting it in the back of each Bible I have. I do this in different translations which might make that passage a bit more understanding. I also buy inexpensive Bibles, highlight and cross reference scriptures and run a sheet for the back. For easier portability I also do this with pocket "New Testaments". These I can leave with the person whether they accept Yeshua (or Messianism) or not.

Dan C

[alon]

I want to bring something forward from an old thread that is applicable here. This was obviously not covered in the DVD at the mainC church, but it is important we as Messianics understand it. The thread is here:

theloveofgod.proboards.com/thread/3318/obedience-missing-link

It's worth rereading the entire thread, however I'll take out the applicable parts and post them here. The point for this thread is that we as Messianic believers, especially witnessing to Gentiles, need to let them know all that they are agreeing to. They need to fully understand the covenant they are making with God.

Dan C

[alon]

Eph 2:11-22 “11 Therefore, remember your former state: you Gentiles by birth - called the Uncircumcised by those who, merely because of an operation on their flesh, are called the Circumcised - 12 at that time had no Messiah. You were estranged from the national life of Isra'el. You were foreigners to the covenants embodying God's promise. You were in this world without hope and without God. 13 But now, you who were once far off have been brought near through the shedding of the Messiah's blood. 14 For he himself is our shalom - he has made us both one and has broken down the m'chitzah which divided us 15 by destroying in his own body the enmity occasioned by the , with its commands set forth in the form of ordinances. He did this in order to create in union with himself from the two groups a single new humanity and thus make shalom, 16 and in order to reconcile to God both in a single body by being executed on a stake as a criminal and thus in himself killing that enmity. 17 Also, when he came, he announced as Good News shalom to you far off and shalom to those nearby, b 18 news that through him we both have access in one Spirit to the Father. 19 So then, you are no longer foreigners and strangers. On the contrary, you are fellow-citizens with God's people and members of God's family. 20 You have been built on the foundation of the emissaries and the prophets, with the cornerstone being Yeshua the Messiah himself.

We are part of Isra’el- not just “the church!”
• note: in vs. 15, the word ‘ordinances’ is talking about the laws of man, not
• when this was written, the citizens and fellowshipers with God were mostly Jews
o Gentiles were being adopted in

1 Cor 10:11 “ These things happened to them as prefigurative historical events, and they were written down as a warning to us who are living in the acharit-hayamim.”
• Paul is telling us that the pattern is the same
• these things are written for our edification
o we should learn from the mistakes of those who came before us
o believe and act in trust
• has more to do with us today than it does with our past

Ex 12:48-49 “48 If a foreigner staying with you wants to observe ADONAI's Pesach, all his males must be circumcised. Then he may take part and observe it; he will be like a citizen of the land. But no uncircumcised person is to eat it. The same teaching is to apply equally to the citizen and to the foreigner living among you."

Num 15:16 “ The same and standard of judgment will apply to both you and the foreigner living with you.”
• So there is one law for everyone who would attach themselves to Isra’el

(continued)

[alon]

Those who say “we just have to have faith, like Abraham,” implying Abraham had no Law, also have a problem:

Gen 26:5 “All this is because Avraham heeded what I said and did what I told him to do -he followed my mitzvot, my regulations and my teachings."

• So we see Abraham did have mitzvoth/commandments/laws!

Rom 10:1-4 “Brothers, my heart's deepest desire and my prayer to God for Isra'el is for their salvation; for I can testify to their zeal for God. But it is not based on correct understanding; for, since they are unaware of God's way of making people righteous and instead seek to set up their own, they have not submitted themselves to God's way of making people righteous. For the goal at which the aims is the Messiah, who offers righteousness to everyone who trusts."

• ‘goal’, Greek ‘telos’, is the correct translation to give proper meaning here
• often translated “Christ is the end of the law for righteousness,” which we’ve been taught to misunderstand as the end of the law
o correct understanding is obviously ‘end’ as in a desired outcome, a mark to aim at; a goal
• Properly understood, Messiah is the goal of the law, not the end of the law

The following two passages essentially say the same thing:

Deu 30:11-14 “For this mitzvah which I am giving you today is not too hard for you, it is not beyond your reach. It isn't in the sky, so that you need to ask, 'Who will go up into the sky for us, bring it to us and make us hear it, so that we can obey it?' Likewise, it isn't beyond the sea, so that you need to ask, 'Who will cross the sea for us, bring it to us and make us hear it, so that we can obey it?' On the contrary, the word is very close to you - in your mouth, even in your heart; therefore, you can do it!”

Rom 10:5-9 “For Moshe writes about the righteousness grounded in the that the person who does these things will attain life through them. Moreover, the righteousness grounded in trusting says: "Do not say in your heart, 'Who will ascend to heaven?'" that is, to bring the Messiah down - or, "'Who will descend into Sh'ol?'" that is, to bring the Messiah up from the dead. What, then, does it say? "The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart" that is, the word about trust which we proclaim, namely, that if you acknowledge publicly with your mouth that Yeshua is Lord and trust in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be delivered.”

• Paul is saying that the plan of salvation/confession of faith today is the same as that in !
• ‘acknowledge,’ often translated ‘confession’- Greek homologoheo- means ‘covenant’
o so is saying “if you make covenant with your mouth Yeshua is Lord”
• so we are coming into covenant, just as Abraham did
o yet we are at the same time taught to break that covenant by disavowing ! (ed note: in Christianity, not in true Messianism)

If you are going to persuade someone to accept Yeshua, then you are responsible to teach them to come into covenant with God just as Abraham did, and just as Moses did at Sinai!

(end copy)

[alon]

To me, this means we first explain that this is a serious covenant with God; one that includes obedience and , eventually becoming full obedience. It also means our responsibility to them is just starting. We should be available to help and encourage them in their walk. Help them find a synagogue or, at the very least if they can't get to Shabbat services hook them up with a live stream service. Maybe even invite them here to the forum so they can get answers and encouragement.

Dan C

[alon]

So, after prayer and consideration, I've modified my list of scriptures to guide in leading someone to Yeshua to:

1. Rom 3:23-24 (ESV) for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus,

2. Rom 6:23 (ESV) For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

3. John 3:3 (ESV) Jesus answered him, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God."

4. John 14:6 (ESV) Jesus said to him, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

5. Luke 13:3 (ESV) No, I tell you; but unless you repent, you will all likewise perish.

6. Rom 10:9-10 (ESV) because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved.

7. 2 Cor 5:15 (CJB) and that he died on behalf of all in order that those who live should not live any longer for themselves but for the one who on their behalf died and was raised.

8. Rev 3:20 Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and eat with him, and he with me.

And if they accept Yeshua:

9. Rom 10:5 (ESV) For Moses writes about the righteousness that is based on the law, that the person who does the commandments shall live by them.

10. John 14:15 (ESV) If you love me, you will keep my commandments.

11. MARK 16:16 (CJB) Whoever trusts and is immersed will be saved; whoever does not trust will be condemned.

Of course, the scripture version you'll use is what you have at the time. I used the ESV here because it is the most readable and easily understood Bible I've found. But I mixed in some CJB for a better interpretation in a couple of cases.

I'd appreciate some input here before I make this my standard. Does it get the point across? How is the order? Would you address obedience in a different place? Maybe use different verses ...

Dan (probably overthinking things again) C

[alon]

There are some key questions you can close with to help them in thier decision making:

1. Are you a sinner?

2. Do you see the need of forgiveness for your sins?

3. Do you believe Yeshua died on the cross, was buried and rose again on the third day?

4. Now, are you willing to be obedient to Yeshua, who is God, surrendering to Him and inviting His Ruach into your life?

Important: After asking these questions, you should be silent and pray for this person or persons. Allow God to work in their hearts and let them make their decision. And just as important, if at any time in the whole process they say they want to be saved, jump to the next part here- the part where they say "YES".

If they say yes, I ask them to pray. I do not have them just repeat what I say, although I will give them guidelines on what to pray as they go along. But I hate those "sinners prayers" where they just parrot you. I want this to be their prayer, unique to them and between them and God, not them and me witnessed by God. I think there is a huge difference; and it may be between them and eternity.

Tell them they need only ask God for the gift of salvation now. Truly cry out to God with all your heart and ask Him to save you. A simple prayer, from the heart, is all it takes. Here are some guidelines:
1. believe Yeshua died on the cross for your sins, and that He was resurrected to eternal life (pray this in their own words)

2. ask forgiveness, and be willing to turn away from your sins (repentance)

3. accept Yeshua as your personal Savior

4. ask Him to send His Ruach into your life, and be willing to obey, trusting Him as Lord of your life

5. ask for continued guidance of His Spirit so that you may be set apart for Him

6. Give thanks to Him as Lord.

7.In Yeshua's Holy Name, Omeyn (this they can repeat after you)

Obviously too, if they have questions at any point here, you can go back and clarify. Then when they are ready, start the prayer over from the beginning.

Also, if the Messianic terms hinder their understanding, or if your Bible doesn't use these words, then use Jesus, God, Holy Spirit, etc. But I'd then make them aware of Mesianism right after they've said the prayer, and tell them about tevilah/baptism as an act of obedience right away.

Dan C