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Post by alon on Aug 20, 2014 23:32:00 GMT -8
Yeah, it's frustrating not having decent Messianic reference books. But the movement is still new and very fragmented, so I don't see it happening any time soon. Probably not in our lifetime.
LROL I could be a butt and say this is just one more example of our peace being broken ... but I'll resist ... 
(I'll repent for that later ...  )
Dan  C
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Post by Questor on Aug 21, 2014 0:14:19 GMT -8
If it's not in our lifetime, then we are no where near the End of Days, which if you look around the world would seem strange. I'm only 59, and I expect to live at least as long as my Dad...he made it to 87years, 10 months. I really can't see the Middle east hanging on for 30 more years of 'Ethnos against Ethnos'.
And the Jews in Israel are beginning to cry out for Messiah.
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Post by jimmie on Aug 21, 2014 8:54:13 GMT -8
77finch,
I know that the Greek words translated "blameless" are different from the words used to describe Jesus being without sin. I also know that the word for sin used is the same as in the following.
(John 5:14 KJV) Afterward Jesus findeth him in the temple, and said unto him, Behold, thou art made whole: sin no more, lest a worse thing come unto thee.
(John 8:11 KJV) She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.
I believe that Christ’s command to “sin no more” can be followed. The woman could live the remainder of her life without committing adultery. However if she didn’t, it is not the command’s fault. It would be her fault. She would be without excuse. Now what I was taught is that it is an inescapable fact that I am going to sin. I can’t live a sinless life. If that is the truth, then I do have an excuse for my sin. Now what I believe is that, if I sin, I am without excuse. I can’t blame my sin on God’s law being impossible for humans to obey. However, if I sin, I have an advocate with the Father.
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Post by 77finch on Aug 21, 2014 20:48:20 GMT -8
Jimmie,
I agree that we should be striving to be without sin. I will agree that theoretically we could live without sin. Although, I believe the only One to live a lifetime without sin is Yeshua. I sin because I choose to sin not because of YHWH's law or commandments or an inheritance. My sins are my sins...I'm guilty and there is a penalty for my sins but I can be redeemed if I so chose. There is that free will again! We agree on the basics but I don't think I can experience the Kingdom of Heaven in my "fallen" state.
Solomon the wisest man to ever live speaks to us:
Eccles 7:20(ESV) Surely their is not a righteous man on earth who does good and never sins.
Eccles 8:11(ESV) Because the sentence against an evil deed is not executed speedily, the heart of the children of man is fully set to do evil.
Remaining without sin is the hardest thing we can do...most Christians can't define sin or tell you where to find the definitions of sin because they are running around with only the New Testament in their possession.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Post by Questor on Aug 21, 2014 21:30:18 GMT -8
I agree with what you say, Questor. However this doesn't support the "Kingdom Now." If this is the Kingdom, I am SUNK!  It seems to me more like the wilderness. However, as anyone who has actually camped in the wilderness knows, it is best done with a solid companion. This we have in the Ruach who, as you say does not look upon our sins (the ones we've repented for at least). We should just be happy campers. Too often I am not, but it is me and not God who is responsible for that. I am looking forward to the Kingdom where there won't be any of this "not" and I will be happy past all understanding. Phil 4:7 Then God's shalom, passing all understanding, will keep your hearts and minds safe in union with the Messiah Yeshua. Shalom, peace on a personal level: that is the hallmark of the Kingdom. And while we can have a taste of that now, I know of no one who is at peace all the time; nor does their peace surpass all understanding. Even Melech Dovid and Rav Sha'ul got their peace interrupted at times. Read Acts 14:12-18 where Sha'ul rends his clothes and tries to keep the crowds from sacrificing to him! And we all know of the results of Dovid's dalliance with Bathsheba. So no, neither in the TNK nor in the B'rit Chadasha do we see anyone at absolute peace.
Dan C
No, we do not. But peace is not what the Kingdomof G-d is all about either.
I haven't spoken of this event before in my writings, because there was no reason to...no topic that fit with what G-d gave to me to enjoy for a period of time. Please forgive me for going on and on about myself with a relatively ‘concise’ (Hah!) narration, for me, anyway, of some events in my life. These events are described to make clear something that happened to me that we will all experience one day.
For those that don't know, I had a mixed, secular pagan life, with a lot of bad in it. Then, on June 6th and June 7th 1995, I broke my neck in a car accident, then due to bad Emergency room care, was sent home to sleep on a hangman’s fracture, causing more damage. A hangman's fracture of the neck is the kind of break just under the brain stem that if it goes too far, you just stop breathing. So despite the best efforts of my doctors, and a certain x-ray tech, I survived anyway. I was forty, happily married for 11 years, and becoming successful in my career.
Within a year, my life disintegrated...my spouse disappeared...my career and business ties were wiped away...and I was pretty much left on my own in poverty, and unable to get any support from anyone human, except for my prayer partner, who was recovering from a house burning down, and a loss of spouse as well.
My mother was diagnosed with Lung Cancer just 4 days after my accident, and my father was completely swamped with her fears and managing her horrendous care and treatment. My brother and his family were in another state, and are still there. Mom called me 4 to 5 times a day until her death five years later for emotional support…she was not able to notice my predicament much of the time, though my parents both did what they could…there just wasn’t much left over from their disaster to cope with mine.
Please do not feel sorry for me…it was all necessary for me to become who I am, and who I will one day be, since Abba isn’t done yet. Rough love, but effective. One life had to be wiped away for another to be created in its place, much as I hated the process of becoming a different person in a lot of ways…alas that not more has been changed as yet!
By 2003, I took minimal medications...only enough to be able to sleep, because meds don't help constant, persistent pain, and after all the practice I had had since 1995, I could put up with it if I simply remained mostly to myself each day, and mostly quiet. My condition was not good, and I looked forward to nothing changing unless Abba chose to take a hand in my situation. I muddled on with my life, I talked to those that gave me time, read a lot of books, watched a lot of movies and a lot of sermons on TV, and prayed a lot. My prayer partner and I held each other up…it was a G-d arranged friendship, and still is.
In 2006, I had my first 3D vision from Abba of a Shepherd that told me what to do…”Write!”
I immediately, at that moment, at 3:00a.m. went online, something I barely was interested in at the time, started a blog, somewhat blindly, and began to write in Christian Forums…once I found out what they were…mostly because I didn’t know what else to do. So I did pretty much the same. I read, I watched movies, and read sermons, listened to TV Bible teachers, studied with my prayer partner, and wrote a lot, on and off the internet.
In the spring of 2008 I began to ask for change…not for me to be able to change, but for G-d to change me how He wanted me changed, and was led, over time, step by step into new information I wasn't willing to consider prior to that time, new disciplines that I must learn to live within, and in time I continued to keep getting better, a little more here, a little more there.
Then, all of a sudden, in April and May of 2009, I was just in the midst of so much joy, I could not express it clearly enough. From about the time of Passover to about a week before the Feast of Shavuot...Abba let me have 42 days of consecutive joy, the brilliance of which I cannot describe, only that I call them the Days of Glorious when I speak of them to the friends who knew me in that period. Nothing changed outwardly…I still hurt, the days were as they always were, except that I was in a haze of such intense delight that I bubbled over with it constantly, like a beer keg at a Frat party that springs a leak at the tap. It just foamed out of me.
I received 42 days of Glorious brilliant light within me that the memory of which still dazzles, then fades and returns...I am unable to hold more than a glimpse of it always in my present mind...it is too hard to hold onto the experience. I remember the time, and I cherish it, but it was beyond human understanding. I was aware of being in the midst of it at the time...that I was experiencing something totally marvelous, and unexplainable.
Then, one day, it simply wasn't there anymore. I was sorry it was gone, but so glad to have had it at all that I couldn't be truly unhappy anymore. All of me was just as bad physically, but my attitude towards what I was experiencing began to change...a little here, a little there.
Next, in the fall of 2010, G-d intervened in a big way. I was suddenly given a partial healing of part of my muscle spasms, and a lot of my electrical connections from my brain to my body were strengthened and reconnected, and at the same time, my PTSD was decreased in intensity, and I could get into a car with being entirely terrified of the experience.
After being as stiff as a board for 14 years, and feeling as if my bones were being twisted on a rack in a dungeon somewhere, all of a sudden I could bend my body a little. It was not complete, nor did it affect all of my body...but it was a huge step forward. I suddenly became able to twist a little, to turn my head, to bend over and put on socks, and tie on a pair of tennis shoes, not your basis slippers or flip flops. And being able to move a little, I did what I could, and that bit of doing helped me a little too.
It didn’t happen all at once…not everywhere, and not always everywhen, but rather more from faith to faith. The Ruach had me change my studies and research, and learn new things, that I had never been interest in. I studied medicine and nutrition, something I had no interest in before...and mind you, this is from before the time I was doing anything that the Ruach told me to do to help myself heal...I didn't start any of that kind of listening and obedience before November of 2011...I wasn’t ready or able to.
This year, in May 2014, I learned about an underlying physical cause to a lot of my previous health difficulties in life which were aggravated by the accident, and literally tied up in ribbons a great many unanswered questions about what happened where, and when, and why it affected me so tremendously. I learned that since birth I had a genetic disorder that causes me to digest the grain protein Gluten improperly…they act like an acid on the upper intestines, searing the intestinal lining, and prevent nutrients from being taken up.
I learned that I had suffered from malnutrition from the womb onwards, which set my mind and body up to degrade even as I grew.
Everything gets off balance; nerves, hormones, digestion, sleep cycles, immune system, even the muscle responses, and eye hand coordination...which helped me into my accident, because the nutrients your body needs to run your body are not able to be taken up effectively from what you eat. What nutrients you get are while in the mouth and stomach, not in the really intense part of your digestions. It’s called Celiac Disease, and about 1 in 141 people from Western Europe have the genetic defect. I do not even have a bad case of it, so please do not say, oh, poor thing! Some people with Celiac can walk into a bakery and get sick from it…I just can’t eat what I used to if I ever want to get well. But the Ruach had already changed me and my life years before I found out the problem…had I learned of it without all the changes that were done in me, I would not have been able to cope with how one needs to live to cope with the disease.
The Days of Glorious have faded a lot, but for some reason, I experienced that, and I am being shown a little of what we will experience in the Kingdom, just as I have occasionally been given dreams and visions to instruct me in what I must do, and also to show me some hidden things about the way the Spiritual world interacts with the Natural one.
These dreams and visions and the Days of Glorious are not shown me or given me because I am good, or obedient or loving or really anything much positive...in fact, rather the reverse.
I think I get to have these things simply because I am willing to write about them, regardless of how other’s perceive or understand what I am saying, so that perhaps someone who reads of my experiences will catch a glimpse of what I have seen and experienced, and look forward to it being duplicated in their own lives...because in the Kingdom of G-d, as one of the Incorrupt, and with a pure heart, and a trained mind, we get to experience so much most people do not even try to comprehend now, which is a pity, because one's peace in the now is affected a great deal by your understanding of what is happening now, and what is to happen in the Kingdom.
And in the days to come, I keep looking forward to what Abba will show me, and give me knowledge of, of what is in the Kingdom of G-d so I can write about it, and encourage others with an intensification of the Hope that is in them because of Yehoshua, because YHVH is a giving G-d...one who loves because He can, and acts in love to those of us that attend to Him, simply because He chooses to.
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Post by Questor on Aug 21, 2014 22:31:21 GMT -8
Jimmie, I agree that we should be striving to be without sin. I will agree that theoretically we could live without sin. Although, I believe the only One to live a lifetime without sin is Yeshua. I sin because I choose to sin not because of YHWH's law or commandments or an inheritance. My sins are my sins...I'm guilty and there is a penalty for my sins but I can be redeemed if I so chose. There is that free will again! We agree on the basics but I don't think I can experience the Kingdom of Heaven in my "fallen" state. Solomon the wisest man to ever live speaks to us: Eccles 7:20(ESV) Surely their is not a righteous man on earth who does good and never sins. Eccles 8:11(ESV) Because the sentence against an evil deed is not executed speedily, the heart of the children of man is fully set to do evil. Remaining without sin is the hardest thing we can do...most Christians can't define sin or tell you where to find the definitions of sin because they are running around with only the New Testament in their possession. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Well, perhaps in actions, if we were trained from birth, but hardly in mind or heart. But Abba instituted the Levitical laws and sacrifices because He knew that all the Jews were not likely to choose to be obedient...in fact, He said so. The idea of giving up something of value to pay for your sins was what sacrifices were for. For a poor man to need to give up a lamb would be a great hardship, even for Passover, or as the parts of a sin offering, when he got to eat it, because it would hinder him from increasing his herd. Thus, the hardship of a sacrifice would help him to stay on the straight and narrow, because of the penalty. But Abba knew ahead of time that the Israelites would not keep the  .
Giving into any sin is of course a choice, and it is possible that many people could remain without known sin for long periods of time, but what about the unknown sins that offerings were given for, because of the imperfection of mankind making it unable that he should be in sinless perfection?
Deuteronomy 31:16-18 (NKJV)
16 And the LORD said to Moses: "Behold, you will rest with your fathers; and this people will rise and play the harlot with the gods of the foreigners of the land, where they go to be among them, and they will forsake Me and break My covenant which I have made with them.
17 Then My anger shall be aroused against them in that day, and I will forsake them, and I will hide My face from them, and they shall be devoured. And many evils and troubles shall befall them, so that they will say in that day, 'Have not these evils come upon us because our God is not among us?'
18 And I will surely hide My face in that day because of all the evil which they have done, in that they have turned to other gods. Deuteronomy 31:16-18 (NKJV)
16 And the LORD said to Moses: "Behold, you will rest with your fathers; and this people will rise and play the harlot with the gods of the foreigners of the land, where they go to be among them, and they will forsake Me and break My covenant which I have made with them.
17 Then My anger shall be aroused against them in that day, and I will forsake them, and I will hide My face from them, and they shall be devoured. And many evils and troubles shall befall them, so that they will say in that day, 'Have not these evils come upon us because our God is not among us?'
18 And I will surely hide My face in that day because of all the evil which they have done, in that they have turned to other gods. and would keep one on the straight and narrow, particularly if everyone around you was watching you to make sure you kept the commandments to the utmost of your ability.
There are many in the churches who do not read the Tanakh, because they think that all that is outmoded and done away with. Yet if they would just read the Brit Chadashah, they would find it speaks of obedience all the time.
They may have a New Testament, but only those that study it ever seem to make any progress, even under Grace. I think that in the end, many are never really saved in Yehoshua, because if the Ruach was in them, it would be enough to start them being drawn to the Scriptures, and to what the Ruach teaches Himself.
I know that only because the Ruach has made such comments, and tugged upon my heart have I even begun to obey. |
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Post by alon on Aug 22, 2014 0:16:43 GMT -8
No, we do not. But peace is not what the Kingdomof G-d is all about either.
Nothing so dramatic as what you describe, but YHVH has given me respite and reassurances as well. However neither your story nor mine says anything about the Kingdom being with us now, except in small bytes where God wants to show us He IS God! These glimpses of what will be are not the Kingdom but mere shadows of the Kingdom; glimpses viewed through a mirror darkly.
Dan C |
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Post by jimmie on Aug 22, 2014 5:48:49 GMT -8
Jimmie, I agree that we should be striving to be without sin. I will agree that theoretically we could live without sin. Although, I believe the only One to live a lifetime without sin is Yeshua. I sin because I choose to sin not because of YHWH's law or commandments or an inheritance. My sins are my sins...I'm guilty and there is a penalty for my sins but I can be redeemed if I so chose. There is that free will again! We agree on the basics but I don't think I can experience the Kingdom of Heaven in my "fallen" state. Yes we agree on the basics but I don't think anyone can escape the fallen state without experiencing the Kingdom of Heaven. P.S. Anyone with a NT should be able to define sin for it give the best definition that I have found: (1 John 3:4 KJV) Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. Also: (1 John 3:8 KJV) He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. |
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Post by jimmie on Aug 22, 2014 7:25:53 GMT -8
You guys throw rocks at me if you think I am way off, the Kingdom of God ( which should read YHWH) is the entire Creation, heaven and earth. The Kingdom of Heaven is yet to come, when sin is done away. The Kingdom of God and Kingdom of Heaven are referring to the same . The phrase “kingdom of God” occurs 68 times in 10 different New Testament books, while “kingdom of heaven” occurs, only in the Gospel of Matthew, 32 times. Christ uses “kingdom of heaven” and “kingdom of God” interchangeably. Matt 19:23 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, Verily I say unto you, That a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven. 24 And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God. Mark and Luke used “kingdom of God” where Matthew used “kingdom of heaven” frequently in parallel accounts of the same parable Compare Matthew 11:11-12 with Luke 7:28; Matthew 13:11with Mark 4:11 and Luke 8:10; Matthew 13:24 with Mark 4:26; Matthew 13:31 with Mark 4:30 and Luke 13:18; Matthew 13:33 with Luke 13:20; Matthew 18:3 with Mark 10:14 and Luke 18:16; and Matthew 22:2 with Luke 13:29. In each instance, Matthew used the phrase “kingdom of heaven” while Mark and Luke use “kingdom of God.” |
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Post by 77finch on Aug 22, 2014 19:12:24 GMT -8
You can't fully define sin without . The teaches us right and wrong. I am wrong about most Christians not having the definition of sin, it's written on our hearts! I do stand corrected on the kingdom of God and Heaven, it looks like they are used interchangeably, thanks Jimmie. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
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Post by Questor on Aug 22, 2014 19:18:39 GMT -8
No, we do not. But peace is not what the Kingdomof G-d is all about either.
Nothing so dramatic as what you describe, but YHVH has given me respite and reassurances as well. However neither your story nor mine says anything about the Kingdom being with us now, except in small bytes where God wants to show us He IS God! These glimpses of what will be are not the Kingdom but mere shadows of the Kingdom; glimpses viewed through a mirror darkly.
Dan C
For us to not have to strive anymore with human problems will be part of the peace The Kingdom of God will provide, to not have pain, or sorrow, or anxiety about life. That will indeed be wonderful, to enter into a 1,000 year Shabbat. It is here that I think the Days of Glorious will be there for us all.
What do you think the Kingdom of G-d is about?
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Post by alon on Aug 22, 2014 20:13:53 GMT -8
I did not say peace is WHAT the Kingdom is about, I said it is a hallmark of the Kingdom; for me it will be THE (as in the primary one) hallmark of the Kingdom!
Nothing so dramatic as what you describe, but YHVH has given me respite and reassurances as well. However neither your story nor mine says anything about the Kingdom being with us now, except in small bytes where God wants to show us He IS God! These glimpses of what will be are not the Kingdom but mere shadows of the Kingdom; glimpses viewed through a mirror darkly.
Dan C
For us to not have to strive anymore with human problems will be part of the peace The Kingdom of God will provide, to not have pain, or sorrow, or anxiety about life. That will indeed be wonderful, to enter into a 1,000 year Shabbat. It is here that I think the Days of Glorious will be there for us all.
What do you think the Kingdom of G-d is about?
DAn C
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Post by alon on Aug 22, 2014 20:20:17 GMT -8
You can't fully define sin without . The teaches us right and wrong. I am wrong about most Christians not having the definition of sin, it's written on our hearts! I do stand corrected on the kingdom of God and Heaven, it looks like they are used interchangeably, thanks Jimmie.
Jer 17:9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?
is where we learn what sin is, and that will not be written on our hearts until after the return of Yeshua.
Written on your heart" is a euphemism for memorization or complete knowledge. Who do you know that knows by heart?
Dan C
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Post by Questor on Aug 22, 2014 20:39:16 GMT -8
I've been gone camping for nearly a week no service. I have a question about this "kingdom now" stuff...If we can experience the Kingdom now, wouldn't we be able to interact with YHWH? If so, how could we interact with YHWH in our "fallen" or sinful nature? Does this idea of "Kingdom now" teach that we can live without sinning? It seems that must be because we could not be in YHWH's presence with any sin in us? If the idea of a life without sin was possible, would there be any need for a Savior? Yet our Scriptures point toward a Messiah from the beginning. I believe in the Kingdom...but not until Yeshua establishes it and puts an end to all sin. The "Kingdom Now" stuff sounds a lot like "Name it and Claim it". To use an extremely overused verse; John 3:16-17 He came to give us life or save us from death which is the price of sin...if we could save ourselves why would Yeshua go to the trouble? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
The idea of Kingdom Now is a theological belief among Charismatic protestants, although Catholics have a similar view in some ways. They think that G-d lost control over the world to Satan when Adam and Eve sinned. Since then, in their theology G-d has been trying to re-establish control over the world by seeking a special group of believers—known variously as "covenant people," "overcomers," or "Joel's army". Presumably, through these special people, the world will be brought under God's authority by their doing, not G-d's.
They think that since they are indwelt by the same Holy Spirit that indwelt Jesus, they have all authority in heaven and on the earth; and that they have the power to believe for and speak into existence things that are not, and thus we can bring about the Kingdom Age, and are supposed to conquer the world in the name of Yehoshua, and hand it to Him at His return.
It is true that we, in the name of Yehoshua can speak to mountains and have them thrown into the sea by faith and trust in Yehoshua, but this is a more of a reference to speaking against strongholds and demons that are in your life (mountains generally being a symbol for powers/rulers) being cast out...speaking against spiritual opposition, although, if you did have the faith, and were speaking G-d's words while being completely in His will, I daresay you could actually rip out a real mountain, but that kind of faith seems to be very rare since the days of the Apostles. I tell my body to get healed, using G-d's words...but I have very little of the right kind of faith, or I would have long since been healed!
This Kingdom Now stuff is not about simple interaction with YHVH through the Ruach, or receiving dreams, visions, healing, enablement, grace or favor as a gift from the Ruach to do those things which G-d commands to be done, or that Abba allows us to ask for, for He has always used man to get things done, but to have the same power as Yehoshua will have when He comes in Glory?
These Kingdom Now people must being preached to by demon influenced Preachers, and may indeed receive a kind of power that stimulates their convictions, but it is more likely that they are being given visions of what they are supposedly be going to be able to do. The Adversary gives out pretty powerful dreams, visions, and knowledge to convince people of things, but they are much less complete, far less brilliant in color, and not very organized or complex in what they are trying to get across, which is generally manipulation of the emotions. Pride, arrogance, fear, and anger are the primary buttons being pushed in these things, and pride is at the heart of their belief.
In my youthful days with the occult, I sure had some strange things happen, and was able to seemingly tap into 'psychic abilities' that were rather scary to experience. I had knowledge, and awareness of things I would not necessarily be able to know or be aware of, which is really scary when you realise that anger was the trigger for the release of power...which was pretty much why I backed off from all that junk in the early parts of my misspent life. Demons seem able to tap into anger and fear quite easily, whether to pass on information they know, or to manipulate people into doing what the demons want them to do.
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Post by Questor on Aug 22, 2014 20:49:52 GMT -8
And if viewed through a glass darkly, how incomprehensible the Kingdom of G-d will be, for those that enter into it in an Incorrupt status. The humans that go into it will be finding life better than what we have now, with the Adversary not stirring up trouble, and Yehoshua ruling with a rod of iron will make the place at least lawful and quietly at peace within a civic point of view. That alone will be an astonishing change for those humans who enter into it.
For us to not have to strive anymore with human problems will be part of the peace The Kingdom of God will provide, to not have pain, or sorrow, or anxiety about life. That will indeed be wonderful, to enter into a 1,000 year Shabbat. It is here that I think the Days of Glorious will be there for us all.
What do you think the Kingdom of G-d is about?
DAn C
I also very much look forward to a re-made Earth and heavens, although I like what we've got now. It would just be nice to unlimited time to enjoy people and things, and learn new stuff.
I do not think the Incorrupt have to wait for the new Heavens and Earth to get the peace and joy we seek. I think that happens the moment we go to meet Yehoshua in the air at His return. |
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C
