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Post by alon on Aug 19, 2014 10:08:15 GMT -8
This week's  par'sha offers some insight into this question.
par’sha: Deuteronomy 11:26-16:17 Re'eh ראה "| See"
The promised land was to be representative of the eternal Kingdom of God. Note the instructions in this week’s par’sha on how to prepare this kingdom:
Deu 12:2 You must destroy all the places where the nations you are dispossessing served their gods, whether on high mountains, on hills, or under some leafy tree. 3 Break down their altars, smash their standing-stones to pieces, burn up their sacred poles completely and cut down the carved images of their gods. Exterminate their name from that place. … 5 Rather, you are to come to the place where ADONAI your God will put his name. He will choose it from all your tribes; and you will seek out that place, which is where he will live, and go there.
Deu 16: 2 You are to sacrifice the Pesach offering from flock and herd to ADONAI your God in the place where ADONAI will choose to have his name live.
He was telling the Hebrews how to cleanse His Kingdom on earth of sin.
Jerusalem is “the place where ADONAI your God will put his name.” Anyone seeking God in prayer or desiring to draw near to His presence was to come to His house.
Isaiah 56:7 I will bring them to my holy mountain and make them joyful in my house of prayer; their burnt offerings and sacrifices will be accepted on my altar; for my house will be called a house of prayer for all peoples.
Deuteronomy 12:12 and you will rejoice in the presence of ADONAI your God - you, your sons and daughters, your male and female slaves and the Levi staying with you, inasmuch as he has no share or inheritance with you.
However this physical representation of God’s Kingdom was to be destroyed yet a second time, so Yeshua invitates us to the Father’s eternal kingdom; a kingdom not of this earth.
John 14:2 In my Father's house are many places to live. If there weren't, I would have told you; because I am going there to prepare a place for you.
The Kingdom of God, at least for the present, does not reside on earth. Even the Temple, which like our bodies are now was only a representation of the Holy Kingdom.
1 Cor 6:19 Or don't you know that your body is a temple for the Ruach HaKodesh who lives inside you, whom you received from God? The fact is, you don't belong to yourselves;
We are filled with the Ruach, not spiritually transported into the physical presence of God. And the "Kingdom Now" is in the spiritual realm, not here with us in the present. And nothing we do can change God's plan as to when and where to restore that Kingdom physically here on earth.
Dan C
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Post by jimmie on Aug 19, 2014 14:05:09 GMT -8
alon, semantics is Greek for sign study. So the determination of what the signs or words mean is a good thing. The parents of John the Baptist, Zacharias and Elisabeth, were found blameless prior to the shedding of the Messiah Jesus’ blood. Can we not exist in the Kingdom now prior to it’s arrival as Zacharias and Elisabeth existed in a state of blamelessness prior to the shedding of Jesus’ blood?
Mark 12:34 KJV) And when Jesus saw that he answered discreetly, he said unto him, Thou art not far from the kingdom of God. And no man after that durst ask him any question.
77finch, thank you for your kind words. My goal is ever to get people into God’s word.
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Post by alon on Aug 19, 2014 15:51:58 GMT -8
alon, semantics is Greek for sign study. So the determination of what the signs or words mean is a good thing.
And you just did. Being found blameless is not the same thing as being sinless! Abraham was justified by his faith, but his many sins are recorded also! God forgives if only we repent. But neither Zacharias or Elisabeth existed in the Kingdom of Heaven prior to their physical death! Read your own scripture without the "semantics":
Compared to someone in New York, I art not far from Seattle- but there is a mountain range and a pretty big gorge between me and Seattle. I art not there in Seattle and no one durst say that I am!
You are falling into the trap of mainstream teaching where anything you want can be true if you just spiritualize it enough! That the Kingdom of Heaven is at hand means you now have a choice to make, a choice of life or death in the world to come. It all depends on what you decide to do now. The decision is at hand, but the Kingdom of Heaven IS NOT just over on the next block!
Let's just bring this down to brass tacks- have you ever physically stood in the presence of God? I don't just mean some over-spiritualized feeling- forget your feelings- have you looked upon God physically? Do you know anyone who has? Have you walked the streets of gold? You are held blameless because of your faith, trust, and repentance. But to enter the Kingdom you must die, because it is not here on earth. Yet.
Dan C
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Post by 77finch on Aug 19, 2014 17:23:33 GMT -8
Dan C I totally agree that the Kingdom of Heaven is not here on Earth and requires a death unless you are Yeshua. In my opinion the most difficult part of Yeshua's mission was being tempted by everything we are tempted with and resisting those temptations. To me that is the whole point of His first coming...be tempted, remain perfect, become the Sacrifice for all mankind and conquer death. He did 2 things a fallen man cannot do; remain perfect in the face of temptation and rise after death!
However, I am curious about the word "blameless" and what exactly it means in the Greek or Hebrew and whether or not the same word translated "blameless" in Hebrews describing our Savior is the same word translated "blameless" in Paul's writings and the other quotes that Jimmie presented earlier.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Post by alon on Aug 19, 2014 18:32:25 GMT -8
... I am curious about the word "blameless" and what exactly it means in the Greek or Hebrew and whether or not the same word translated "blameless" in Hebrews describing our Savior is the same word translated "blameless" in Paul's writings and the other quotes that Jimmie presented earlier.
From the Hebrew & Greek Lexicon:
G273 and G298 were the ones I came up with from jimmies quotes. I don't see the word blameless in Hebrews in the KJV. Yeshua is described as:
So Yeshua is described as sinless, while we who are covered by His blood are blameless.
Dan C |
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Post by jimmie on Aug 20, 2014 9:05:28 GMT -8
alon,
(Mat 11:12 KJV) And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent take it by force.
How can something not here suffer violence and be taken by force?
(Mat 12:28 KJV) But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you.
Christ cast out demons, so I conclude that the kingdom of God is here.
(Mat 13:41 KJV) The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;
How can those which do iniquity be removed form his kingdom if it not here?
(Mat 16:19 KJV) And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.
(Mat 21:43 KJV) Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.
How can it be taken form one and given another if it is not here?
(Mat 23:13 KJV) But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.
It looks as though there are people entering the kingdom in Jesus’ day but were prevented by the Pharisees.
(Luke 11:20 KJV) But if I with the finger of God cast out devils, no doubt the kingdom of God is come upon you.
(Luke 16:16 KJV) The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.
Luke 17:20 And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:
21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.
(Col 1:13 KJV) Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:
(Rev 1:9 KJV) I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ.
All of the above scriptures show that the Kingdom of God/Heaven is here NOW. Your or I could quote as many scriptures that talk about the coming of the Kingdom in the future. But that can not prove that the Kingdom is not here NOW. And the Kingdom being here NOW does not prove that the Kingdom is not coming in the future. Both are true and accurate statements. The Kingdom is in some today and at a future date it will be in everyone.
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Post by alon on Aug 20, 2014 10:32:15 GMT -8
Mat 11: 12 From the time of Yochanan the Immerser until now, the Kingdom of Heaven has been suffering violence; yes, violent ones are trying to snatch it away.
This is why you need to use a translation more reliable than the KJV
Mat 12: 26 If Satan drives out Satan, he is divided against himself; so how can his kingdom survive? 27 Besides, if I drive out demons by Ba`al-Zibbul, by whom do your people drive them out? So, they will be your judges! 28 But if I drive out demons by the Spirit of God, then the Kingdom of God has come upon you! 29 "Or again, how can someone break into a strong man's house and make off with his possessions unless he first ties up the strong man? After that he can ransack his house.
If we read in context, we see Yeshua is speaking allegorically. The kingdom is upon you because you made the right choice.
Mat 13:4139 The enemy who sows them is the Adversary, the harvest is the end of the age, and the harvesters are angels. 40 Just as the weeds are collected and burned up in the fire, so will it be at the end of the age. 41 The Son of Man will send forth his angels, and they will collect out of his Kingdom all the things that cause people to sin and all the people who are far from ;
You took it out of context. He is talking about the future.
Mat 16:19 Bound in heaven, just where I’ve been saying the Kingdom resides at this time.
Mat 21:43 Speaks allegorically.
(Mat 23:13 KJV) But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.
Is saying they keep men from making the decision that will grant them entrance to the Kingdom.
(Luke 11:20 KJV) But if I with the finger of God cast out devils, no doubt the kingdom of God is come upon you.
When God casts out demons or does other wonders, it is to show you who He is as opposed to the one in the world. You then have a decision to make- the Kingdom is upon you.
I’ve told you all this before, but you refuse to move past the mainstream dogma and thinking. You cling to the King James Version like it is the Holy Grail. I can go on countering your scriptures, but it will make no difference to you because you’ve never considered any view but the mainstream.
Luke 16:16 Up to the time of Yochanan there were the and the Prophets. Since then the Good News of the Kingdom of God has been proclaimed, and everyone is pushing to get in.
Get a better translation …
Luke 17:20 The P'rushim asked Yeshua when the Kingdom of God would come. "The Kingdom of God," he answered, "does not come with visible signs; 21 nor will people be able to say, `Look! Here it is!' or, `Over there!' Because, you see, the Kingdom of God is among you." 22 Then he said to his talmidim, "The time is coming when you will long to see even one of the days of the Son of Man, but you will not see it.
Get a better translation, and read it in context. Yeshua was, and is the Kingdom of God. He is the King, and wherer the King is so is the Kingdom!
(Col 1:13 KJV) Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:
Even in the KJV this just says they are saved.
(Rev 1:9 KJV) I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ.
And in your view this means he’d been through the tribulation, then in the kingdom, and now he’s back? We suffer tribulations here, and we do Kingdom work here, but this does not mean we reside in the kingdom. It may be our home, but we are forced to work for a time away from home.
None of them prove it is here like you mean it. But again, answering you will make no difference to you. So once again we’ll just have to disagree.
The Kingdom of Heaven is within us because the Ruach resides in us. It is in us allegorically.It will not physically be on earth until all this is done away with and Yeshua reigns eternally as both God and King on earth.
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Post by 77finch on Aug 20, 2014 13:28:48 GMT -8
You guys throw rocks at me if you think I am way off, the
Kingdom of God ( which should read YHWH) is the entire Creation, heaven and earth. The Kingdom of Heaven is yet to come, when sin is done away.
John 18:36 Yeshua answered, My kingdom is not of this world. If My kingdom were of this world, My servants would have fought that I might not be delivered up to the Jews. But now My Kingdom is not from here.
Please excuse me I referenced Hebrews 5:15 in an earlier post and there actually is no 5:15! I was actually referring to Hebrews 4:15.
Jimmie did you catch the fact that the Greek words translated "blameless" are different from the words used to describe Yeshua being without sin?
Isaiah 53 tells us the story exactly as it is, before it happened!
Eccles 7:20, Romans 3:10, There is none righteous not even one!
Romans 3:23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of YHWH,
Romans 3 explains much of what we are talking about. The righteous are righteous because of their faith in Messiah Yeshua. I believe that to be the definition of " blameless". Please don't miss verse 31 when you read it. What a wonderful forum this is...to share the Word with others hungry for the "living waters"!
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Post by 77finch on Aug 20, 2014 13:52:10 GMT -8
It could actually be a grievous error to think we could live a perfect life or without sin equaling Yeshua's life.
Rev 5:3 and no one in Heaven was able to open the scroll nor to see it, neither on the earth, nor under the earth.
Rev 5:7 And He came and took the scroll out of the right hand of Him sitting on the throne.
I wish I could put the entire chapter up here but that's not possible. My point is that Yeshua was not only the only one worthy on earth but also in Heaven too! This is the being YHWH sent to save us by living without sin in the face of the same temptations we face, then let us torture and kill Him, so YHWH could raise Him up and conquer sin allowing His Kingdom to return to the Earth! Not man, not an angel, but the only One worthy in Heaven and Earth! That's how difficult the task of saving us is! Please study Isaiah and all of John's writings to figure out exactly who our Savior really is. Alon is trying to tell you that our mainstream church doesn't really do a good job of explaining Him and the significance of His actions and words to us.
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Post by alon on Aug 20, 2014 14:46:35 GMT -8
One thing I know from rock-fights as a kid- if I throw a rock, the other guy has something to throw back at me!
No, looks to me like you pretty well summed it up. So no rocks. 
It wouldn't even be that big a deal, except the enemy slips in the small voids in our doctrine rather than the big holes where we expect him. There is a lot of insanity that rides the coat-tails on Kingdom Now doctrine! Many "feel-good" churches depend in part or in whole on it. And enough people buy into it to pay the expenses. Also, part of the challenge we face as Messianics is shedding those mainstream teachings, rightly discerning the word of truth, and not drifting off into our own brand of crazy! And that happens way too often in our movement.
It is difficult at times, most times actually, but we need to work to understand; not just parrot the drivel we've been taught all our lives. That may be more comfortable but it is false- otherwise what are we doing here?!
Dan C
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Post by Questor on Aug 20, 2014 20:50:09 GMT -8
Mat 11: 12 From the time of Yochanan the Immerser until now, the Kingdom of Heaven has been suffering violence; yes, violent ones are trying to snatch it away.This is why you need to use a translation more reliable than the KJVMat 12: 26 If Satan drives out Satan, he is divided against himself; so how can his kingdom survive? 27 Besides, if I drive out demons by Ba`al-Zibbul, by whom do your people drive them out? So, they will be your judges! 28 But if I drive out demons by the Spirit of God, then the Kingdom of God has come upon you! 29 "Or again, how can someone break into a strong man's house and make off with his possessions unless he first ties up the strong man? After that he can ransack his house.If we read in context, we see Yeshua is speaking allegorically. The kingdom is upon you because you made the right choice.Mat 13:4139 The enemy who sows them is the Adversary, the harvest is the end of the age, and the harvesters are angels. 40 Just as the weeds are collected and burned up in the fire, so will it be at the end of the age. 41 The Son of Man will send forth his angels, and they will collect out of his Kingdom all the things that cause people to sin and all the people who are far from ;You took it out of context. He is talking about the future.
Mat 16:19 Bound in heaven, just where I’ve been saying the Kingdom resides at this time.Mat 21:43 Speaks allegorically.What is the translation you are using, and where do I get it?(Mat 23:13 KJV) But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in. Is saying they keep men from making the decision that will grant them entrance to the Kingdom.(Luke 11:20 KJV) But if I with the finger of God cast out devils, no doubt the kingdom of God is come upon you.When God casts out demons or does other wonders, it is to show you who He is as opposed to the one in the world. You then have a decision to make- the Kingdom is upon you.I’ve told you all this before, but you refuse to move past the mainstream dogma and thinking. You cling to the King James Version like it is the Holy Grail. I can go on countering your scriptures, but it will make no difference to you because you’ve never considered any view but the mainstream.Luke 16:16 Up to the time of Yochanan there were the and the Prophets. Since then the Good News of the Kingdom of God has been proclaimed, and everyone is pushing to get in.Get a better translation …Luke 17:20 The P'rushim asked Yeshua when the Kingdom of God would come. "The Kingdom of God," he answered, "does not come with visible signs; 21 nor will people be able to say, `Look! Here it is!' or, `Over there!' Because, you see, the Kingdom of God is among you." 22 Then he said to his talmidim, "The time is coming when you will long to see even one of the days of the Son of Man, but you will not see it.Get a better translation, and read it in context. Yeshua was, and is the Kingdom of God. He is the King, and wherer the King is so is the Kingdom!(Col 1:13 KJV) Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:Even in the KJV this just says they are saved.(Rev 1:9 KJV) I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ.
And in your view this means he’d been through the tribulation, then in the kingdom, and now he’s back? We suffer tribulations here, and we do Kingdom work here, but this does not mean we reside in the kingdom. It may be our home, but we are forced to work for a time away from home.None of them prove it is here like you mean it. But again, answering you will make no difference to you. So once again we’ll just have to disagree.
The Kingdom of Heaven is within us because the Ruach resides in us. It is in us allegorically.It will not physically be on earth until all this is done away with and Yeshua reigns eternally as both God and King on earth. |
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Post by alon on Aug 20, 2014 22:14:56 GMT -8
Sorry. I suppose I should put it up when I use it, but I thought everyone would recognize it as it is a very distinctive translation. That's what I get for thinking, huh ... 
It is "The Complete Jewish Bible", and it can be found:
www.biblestudytools.com/
and
www.biblegateway.com/versions/
Stern (the translator) does make some mistakes according to Rabbi S. But overall it is a very good translation.
You can also look up "Young's Literal Translation" on both sites and compare. He is old school King James Protestant, but still a good resource. I like to compare several translations when studying a topic or scripture. Those are both excellent places to do this. There are other resources there as well- commentaries (mainstream, but still often good insights), Lexicons and Strong's Concordance.
The best place for Strong's that I've found (actually thanks to Frank) is e-Sword.
Dan  C
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Post by Questor on Aug 20, 2014 23:01:50 GMT -8
I've been gone camping for nearly a week no service. I have a question about this "kingdom now" stuff...If we can experience the Kingdom now, wouldn't we be able to interact with YHWH? If so, how could we interact with YHWH in our "fallen" or sinful nature? Does this idea of "Kingdom now" teach that we can live without sinning? It seems that must be because we could not be in YHWH's presence with any sin in us? If the idea of a life without sin was possible, would there be any need for a Savior? Yet our Scriptures point toward a Messiah from the beginning. I believe in the Kingdom...but not until Yeshua establishes it and puts an end to all sin. The "Kingdom Now" stuff sounds a lot like "Name it and Claim it". To use an extremely overused verse; John 3:16-17 He came to give us life or save us from death which is the price of sin...if we could save ourselves why would Yeshua go to the trouble? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
It is we that do not take advantage of the promises. We will not believe that YHVH was saying He would Bless those in obedience to Him, or as in those who are considered obedient in Yehoshua, bless us according to our desires if we would but desire Him most of all.
Mark 11:22-26 (CJB)
22 He responded, “Have the kind of trust that comes from God!
23 Yes! I tell you that whoever does not doubt in his heart but trusts that what he says will happen can say to this mountain, ‘Go and throw yourself into the sea!’ and it will be done for him.
24 Therefore, I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, trust that you are receiving it, and it will be yours.
25 And when you stand praying, if you have anything against anyone, forgive him; so that your Father in heaven may also forgive your offenses.”
26
We do not lean on G-d in the way He wants us to...physically depending on His performance of what He promised on Sinai and feeling able to ask persistently for His blessing because of Yehoshua's righteousness.
No matter our attempts at obedience that we do for love of YHVH and Yehoshua, it is a defiant faith, a proud conviction that our Abba will not break His promise to us that moves Abba's hand. He will keep those promises now, if we ask according to His will in us, because of what Yehoshua did on the stake. We have to learn to trust, to lean on Him, to know His mind, and learn what YHVH wants for us to desire and ask for those blessings that are in His will...and they are all spelled out in the Scriptures. It does not put us in the Kingdom of G-d, but it does let us see how very close we are to it.
To desire Abba in that way requires wanting what He wants for us more than what we want for ourselves, and living as Yehoshua did...in a complete state of forgiveness...never holding what others did to Him against the people who did it. These are not easy things to do...to understand YHVH's will for us, and to live in constant forgiveness, but when we do, He is aware of it, and blesses us accordingly.
I only know that I have occasionally accomplished this from time to time, because of the blessings I am given, not because of any awareness of doing anything well. Most of the time I walk as blindly as a three year old, holding out my crayon drawing to my Father, and find that somehow, He is pleased with me. Most of all, I know that if I ask Him to change me to be more like He wants me to be, I change. |
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Post by Questor on Aug 20, 2014 23:18:44 GMT -8
Sorry. I suppose I should put it up when I use it, but I thought everyone would recognize it as it is a very distinctive translation. That's what I get for thinking, huh ...
It is "The Complete Jewish Bible", and it can be found:
www.biblestudytools.com/
and
www.biblegateway.com/versions/
Stern (the translator) does make some mistakes according to Rabbi S. But overall it is a very good translation.
You can also look up "Young's Literal Translation" on both sites and compare. He is old school King James Protestant, but still a good resource. I like to compare several translations when studying a topic or scripture. Those are both excellent places to do this. There are other resources there as well- commentaries (mainstream, but still often good insights), Lexicons and Strong's Concordance.
The best place for Strong's that I've found (actually thanks to Frank) is e-Sword.
Dan C |
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Post by alon on Aug 20, 2014 23:25:48 GMT -8
I agree with what you say, Questor. However this doesn't support the "Kingdom Now." If this is the Kingdom, I am SUNK! 
It seems to me more like the wilderness. However, as anyone who has actually camped in the wilderness knows, it is best done with a solid companion. This we have in the Ruach who, as you say does not look upon our sins (the ones we've repented for at least). We should just be happy campers. Too often I am not, but it is me and not God who is responsible for that. I am looking forward to the Kingdom where there won't be any of this "not" and I will be happy past all understanding.
Phil 4:7 Then God's shalom, passing all understanding, will keep your hearts and minds safe in union with the Messiah Yeshua.
Shalom, peace on a personal level: that is the hallmark of the Kingdom. And while we can have a taste of that now, I know of no one who is at peace all the time; nor does their peace surpass all understanding. Even Melech Dovid and Rav Sha'ul got their peace interrupted at times. Read Acts 14:12-18 where Sha'ul rends his clothes and tries to keep the crowds from sacrificing to him! And we all know of the results of Dovid's dalliance with Bathsheba. So no, neither in the TNK nor in the B'rit Chadasha do we see anyone at absolute peace.
Dan C
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par'sha offers some insight into this question.
C
