Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 6, 2014 4:31:23 GMT -8
Jimmie,
Since when did Adam ever marry Eve? Show me where that is scriptural?
The bible that I read states that God CREATED Adam and Eve. God CREATED Eve from Adam's side. And than told Adam here is your help mate. There was no wedding or marriage vows in the Garden of Eden. God was witness to His own creation and having both come together. My thoughts on the matter.
Moriah Ruth
|
|
|
|
Post by jimmie on Jun 6, 2014 6:32:32 GMT -8
Moriah Ruth, Seen of Jah/Lord, Friend
I was having a little laugh at drummer boy’s expense. You are right though, about no wedding or vows in Adam and Eva’s marriage. Of course there is no requirement of either to constitute a marriage.
The basis of Marriage: Becoming one flesh:
Gen 2: 24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.
25 And they were both naked, the man and his wife, and were not ashamed.
Gen 4: 4:1 And Adam knew Eve his wife;
Adam became one flesh, with Eva, when he joined with or knew her. Therefore they were married.
I Cor 6: 16 What? know ye not that he which is joined to an harlot is one body? for two, saith he, shall be one flesh.
Even in the defiled state consummation constitutes a marriage or become one flesh. This fallen state of marriage is what gives rise to the “need” for weddings, vows and contracts. Bride price/dowry/gift equates to what price a man is willing to pay to receive a wife. The bride price will be used to care for the woman in the event the man turns her out and she returns to her father’s house. One example of a bride’s price is seven years labor that Jacob, heel catcher, offered for Rachel, ewe.
|
|
|
|
Post by Questor on Jun 6, 2014 12:47:02 GMT -8
Because my walk has been a trying one. I have been blessed with numerous skills and abilities. The Lord has made sure i can survive. I've been persecuted for my adherence to the Law and the testimony. And now here i get called an idolator. I rarely lay this charge at pagans doors, but it has gotten me persecuted, badly. I left off trying to be a professional musician when i realised what music was really for, and started trying to produce my own line of Djembe drums. Unfortunately i was not able to get funding, because i was considered to be a white man trying to rob the black man. (No honestly, it took me a long time to work it out, but this is about the size of it.) I play Djembe drums to a professional standard, congas and drum kit too. I can post you a toob link if you want. I could make a lot of money in the secular world, but from my experience, my unwillingness to embrace lawlessness means i'm usually sidelined. Very often it has simply been my devotion to sabbath, that has singled me out as an annoyance. (Whats he talking aboot, sabbaths sundear innit.) I skate, was sponsored for longboard decks. My skills with horticulture could make me a small fortune if i lived in colorado. But thats enough. Nice to have you as a friend Questor, just don't follow me around too much. lol
Being a gardener myself, I can understand that as a viable profession to prepare for wife and children in the future. Why do you not move to a place with good land, and begin again? Agriculture is definately a good thing to Abba...I know He would bless you in that, and then you could progress. Are you currently making your living as a drummer? |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 6, 2014 15:56:09 GMT -8
I was raised 'Christian' on off in a Methodist environment. In Later years i moved away, and realised that something was very wrong, in what you call the main c. The 'Gospel Hall' rarely quoted from Luke or Mark or Matthew, sometimes John, but usually from pauls letters. I trailed from door to door, trying to find a fellowship that bore some resemblance to the vision of sainthood I'd received reading the scriptures. Especially the histories of the Patriarchs. And Israel the people. Or what about the sort of sacrifice seen in Yochannen and Yeshua. Eventually I set out on foot, with my tent, skateboard , and eventually djembe, (I sold my drumkit and bought a skateboard) to find others who would get what I was talking about. I stopped first in Oxford and spent a glorious 2 months by the river, skating, fishing, and studying( yes i studied theology in Oxford) scripture. In fact it was in Oxford i stated to relise that revelations was not quite as solid as some people think. From there it was a case of backtracking to find where things started to go a bit wrong. Eventually I started studying the Law with a passion. I realised that the ignorance of the Law in the mainc (or, the sleepy people) was astounding. I mean Shabbes, is ignored, and people go out to nightclubs instead. Shortly before this i stopped eating bacon.(it was the most difficult of all unclean meats, to give up), and started to honour the day of Shabbes. I found a book called Salvation in the old testament, and read it much, and showed it to the nuns i borrowed it off. Along with Deuteronomy 30 'The Great Choice'. 11For this commandment which I command thee this day, it is not hidden from thee, neither is it far off. 12It is not in heaven, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go up for us to heaven, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it? 13Neither is it beyond the sea, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go over the sea for us, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it? 14But the word is very nigh unto thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart, that thou mayest do it.
15See, I have set before thee this day life and good, and death and evil; 16In that I command thee this day to love the LORD thy God, to walk in his ways, and to keep his commandments and his statutes and his judgments, that thou mayest live and multiply: and the LORD thy God shall bless thee in the land whither thou goest to possess it. 17But if thine heart turn away, so that thou wilt not hear, but shalt be drawn away, and worship other gods, and serve them; 18I denounce unto you this day, that ye shall surely perish, and that ye shall not prolong your days upon the land, whither thou passest over Jordan to go to possess it. 19I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live: 20That thou mayest love the LORD thy God, and that thou mayest obey his voice, and that thou mayest cleave unto him: for he is thy life, and the length of thy days: that thou mayest dwell in the land which the LORD sware unto thy fathers, to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob, to give them.
One of the nun's was stricken in conscience, but was moved along with the one in charge, that i was becoming close to. Friends, yeah? Everthing between us was proper, but she treated me like a man, and listened to me. This was around 2009 that i left for the road but only later that year when i returned to Newcastle was she moved. I spent until the start of 2012 sleeping in a tent. 2011 was spent preaching (and skating) in Bournemouth. I went browner than i'd been since i was a boy in S.Africa, and my curls (combined with my color) helped me get some perspective. If i've rambled a bit, i'm sorry.
|
|
|
|
Post by Questor on Jun 6, 2014 19:24:51 GMT -8
I was raised 'Christian' on off in a Methodist environment. In Later years i moved away, and realised that something was very wrong, in what you call the main c. The 'Gospel Hall' rarely quoted from Luke or Mark or Matthew, sometimes John, but usually from pauls letters. I trailed from door to door, trying to find a fellowship that bore some resemblance to the vision of sainthood I'd received reading the scriptures. Especially the histories of the Patriarchs. And Israel the people. Or what about the sort of sacrifice seen in Yochannen and Yeshua.  that underlie what they are being taught to do in the Epistles of Sha'ul...and pretty much ignore what Yehoshua Himself said in too many instances...it is very disheartening.Eventually I set out on foot, with my tent, skateboard , and eventually djembe, (I sold my drumkit and bought a skateboard) to find others who would get what I was talking about. I stopped first in Oxford and spent a glorious 2 months by the river, skating, fishing, and studying ( yes i studied theology in Oxford) scripture. In fact it was in Oxford i stated to relise that revelations was not quite as solid as some people think. From there it was a case of backtracking to find where things started to go a bit wrong. Eventually I started studying the Law with a passion. I realised that the ignorance of the Law in the mainc (or, the sleepy people) was astounding. I mean Shabbes, is ignored, and people go out to nightclubs instead. Shortly before this i stopped eating bacon.(it was the most difficult of all unclean meats, to give up), and started to honour the day of Shabbes.
All of us here are attempting to add on full Observance to our lives, or if Messianic Jews, are attempting to add on some of the thought processes that are taught in the Brit Chadashah.
I myself do not adhere to the teachings in the Mishna and Talmud for which commandments to follow and how...all the Scriptures teach them, Tanakh and Brit Chadashah, but others, particularly those of Jewish birth and culture keep full observance as they were raised, and have added on the additional layers of depth in the Brit Chadashah, or are in the midst of learning all there is to know, that they may work with the Ruach as the Ruach would have them do.
I study the Mishna and Talmud to understand the richness of the Jewish culture and Belief in Judaism so that I may be fully informed. I found a book called Salvation in the old testament, and read it much, and showed it to the nuns i borrowed it off. Along with Deuteronomy 30 'The Great Choice'. 11For this commandment which I command thee this day, it is not hidden from thee, neither is it far off. 12It is not in heaven, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go up for us to heaven, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it? 13Neither is it beyond the sea, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go over the sea for us, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it? 14 But the word is very nigh unto thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart, that thou mayest do it. 15 See, I have set before thee this day life and good, and death and evil; 16 In that I command thee this day to love the LORD thy God, to walk in his ways, and to keep his commandments and his statutes and his judgments, that thou mayest live and multiply: and the LORD thy God shall bless thee in the land whither thou goest to possess it. 17 But if thine heart turn away, so that thou wilt not hear, but shalt be drawn away, and worship other gods, and serve them; 18 I denounce unto you this day, that ye shall surely perish, and that ye shall not prolong your days upon the land, whither thou passest over Jordan to go to possess it. 19 I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live: 20That thou mayest love the LORD thy God, and that thou mayest obey his voice, and that thou mayest cleave unto him: for he is thy life, and the length of thy days: that thou mayest dwell in the land which the LORD sware unto thy fathers, to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob, to give them. [/b] Yes, too few people are reading all of the Scriptures or taking them seriously. One of the nun's was stricken in conscience, but was moved along with the one in charge, that i was becoming close to. Friends, yeah? Everthing between us was proper, but she treated me like a man, and listened to me. This was around 2009 that i left for the road but only later that year when i returned to Newcastle was she moved. I spent until the start of 2012 sleeping in a tent. 2011 was spent preaching (and skating) in Bournemouth. I went browner than i'd been since i was a boy in S.Africa, and my curls (combined with my color) helped me get some perspective. If i've rambled a bit, i'm sorry. |
|
|
|
Post by alon on Jun 7, 2014 19:24:39 GMT -8
If we were to not worry about what we would wear or eat , even from day to day, worrying people with the foreboding in 'Revelations' is not the answer.
Worrying about how you are going to get the daily means of life is pointless...if you seek Abba's face, you receive opportunity to make wealth. If you cannot do anything about the circumstances, such as work, you are to trust that Abba will provide for you, and therefore there is no point in fretting yourself over it...it is beyond your control.
However, to be on the watch for danger that is known to be coming is something we are all to do. This is why prophecy is given. We are to know the times of Mashiach's return, so we can warn others of the approaching disasters.
Matthew 6:25-34 (NKJV)
25 "Therefore I say to you, do not worry about your life, what you will eat or what you will drink; nor about your body, what you will put on. Is not life more than food and the body more than clothing?
26 Look at the birds of the air, for they neither sow nor reap nor gather into barns; yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not of more value than they?
27 Which of you by worrying can add one cubit to his stature?
28 So why do you worry about clothing? Consider the lilies of the field, how they grow: they neither toil nor spin;
29 and yet I say to you that even Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these.
30 Now if God so clothes the grass of the field, which today is, and tomorrow is thrown into the oven, will He not much more clothe you, O you of little faith?
31 Therefore do not worry, saying, 'What shall we eat?' or 'What shall we drink?' or 'What shall we wear?'
32 For after all these things the Gentiles seek. For your heavenly Father knows that you need all these things.
33 But seek first the kingdom of God and His righteousness, and all these things shall be added to you.
34 Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about its own things. Sufficient for the day is its own trouble.
Original
Language
Transliteration Strongs
Occurrences
חָרָהḥārâ <H2734> 4
רָעַם rā‘am <H7481> 1
קָצַף qāṣap <H7107> 1
Phonetic Pronunciation:khaw-raw'
Root: a primitive root [compare <H2787>]
Cross Reference: TWOT - 736
Part of Speech: v
Vine's Words: Anger, Burning
a primitive root [compare <H2787> (charar)]; to glow or grow warm; figurative (usually) to blaze up, of anger, zeal, jealousy :- be angry, burn, be displeased, × earnestly, fret self, grieve, be (wax) hot, be incensed, kindle, × very, be wroth. See <H8474> (tacharah).Strong's Talking Greek & Hebrew Dictionary.Good points, although I'd say we are given prophesies of the end times so we can be ready and act appropriately as well. I like looking at the meaning of the Hebrew words, as there is so much more there than is in the common English translation. When we think about it, fretting leads to worry, and worry leads to anger. So even the Hebrew words are prophetic! As to worrying about the Book of Revelation, seems only the unsaved would have that problem. Dan C |
|
|
|
Post by Questor on Jun 7, 2014 21:05:02 GMT -8
The word used in the relevant scripture means "to fret"...which is to obsessively worry about the problem to the point of being in continuous bruning anger about it. However, preparing for the future has always been a virtue to any rightminded Believer. It's all over the Word.
Worrying about how you are going to get the daily means of life is pointless...if you seek Abba's face, you receive opportunity to make wealth. If you cannot do anything about the circumstances, such as work, you are to trust that Abba will provide for you, and therefore there is no point in fretting yourself over it...it is beyond your control.
However, to be on the watch for danger that is known to be coming is something we are all to do. This is why prophecy is given. We are to know the times of Mashiach's return, so we can warn others of the approaching disasters.
Matthew 6:25-34 (NKJV)
25 "Therefore I say to you, do not worry about your life, what you will eat or what you will drink; nor about your body, what you will put on. Is not life more than food and the body more than clothing?
26 Look at the birds of the air, for they neither sow nor reap nor gather into barns; yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not of more value than they?
27 Which of you by worrying can add one cubit to his stature?
28 So why do you worry about clothing? Consider the lilies of the field, how they grow: they neither toil nor spin;
29 and yet I say to you that even Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these.
30 Now if God so clothes the grass of the field, which today is, and tomorrow is thrown into the oven, will He not much more clothe you, O you of little faith?
31 Therefore do not worry, saying, 'What shall we eat?' or 'What shall we drink?' or 'What shall we wear?'
32 For after all these things the Gentiles seek. For your heavenly Father knows that you need all these things.
33 But seek first the kingdom of God and His righteousness, and all these things shall be added to you.
34 Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about its own things. Sufficient for the day is its own trouble.
Original
Language
Transliteration Strongs
Occurrences
חָרָהḥārâ <H2734> 4
רָעַם rā‘am <H7481> 1
קָצַף qāṣap <H7107> 1
Phonetic Pronunciation:khaw-raw'
Root: a primitive root [compare <H2787>]
Cross Reference: TWOT - 736
Part of Speech: v
Vine's Words: Anger, Burning
a primitive root [compare <H2787> (charar)]; to glow or grow warm; figurative (usually) to blaze up, of anger, zeal, jealousy :- be angry, burn, be displeased, × earnestly, fret self, grieve, be (wax) hot, be incensed, kindle, × very, be wroth. See <H8474> (tacharah).Strong's Talking Greek & Hebrew Dictionary. Good points, although I'd say we are given prophesies of the end times so we can be ready and act appropriately as well. I like looking at the meaning of the Hebrew words, as there is so much more there than is in the common English translation. When we think about it, fretting leads to worry, and worry leads to anger. So even the Hebrew words are prophetic! As to worrying about the Book of Revelation, seems only the unsaved would have that problem.
Dan C
It is true that the end of days is not a fun time for those that follow the Anti-Christ, while the world going to hell in a handbasket will not be a nice situation, but only two things can happen to a believer during the tribulation...they are protected by Abba because of their faith, and then caught up to be with Yehoshua as He returns; or they die, and are raised from the dead a moment before the living to meet Yehoshua as He returns.
Revelation may not be a jolly read, but it is reassuring...we get to know how secure we are in Yehoshua. |
|
|
|
Post by alon on Jun 7, 2014 21:19:31 GMT -8
Oooh, nice jab to the cheekbone! LOL, I s'pose it could be. But the purpose for a jab is to probe an oponents weaknesses and set him up for the KO. I got no interest in KOing anyone. It's just an observation. And lest any of us get too complacent, I recommend doing as I do and praying for the strength of faith to withstand whatever is hurled against me by the enemy in that time. Only then will the saved have reason not to worry- when the Ruach takes a personal interest in our trust, because we asked for it. I pray for the strength to look the beast in the eye and say "NO!" before I ask for healing; which is kind of where you went with the trust that only comes from God, for God, being a requisite for healing. It's complicated ...  Dan C |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 12, 2014 8:57:18 GMT -8
And Dan said:
Good points, although I'd say we are given prophesies of the end times so we can be ready and act appropriately as well.
I like looking at the meaning of the Hebrew words, as there is so much more there than is in the common English translation. When we think about it, fretting leads to worry, and worry leads to anger. So even the Hebrew words are prophetic!
As to worrying about the Book of Revelation, seems only the unsaved would have that problem.
Dan C
I thought we had the gospel to help us in that area. What about the parables Yeshua told?
|
|
|
|
Post by alon on Jun 12, 2014 9:59:48 GMT -8
I thought we had the gospel to help us in that area. What about the parables Yeshua told? Yes, we have all that too. How would that discredit Revelations? |
|
|
|
Post by jimmie on Jun 24, 2014 11:56:15 GMT -8
Wasn't there dark days in Moses' day. I mean having to throw your male child into the river is pretty dark if you ask me. all the first born of Egypt dieing is pretty bleak.
One likely reasons as to why the tribe of Dan is not listed in Revelation comes from the fact that they had an enormous difficulty with idolatry. They, early in their history, became devoted to such practices (in fact, the first Israelites to do so) and continued them up to the time of their captivity in 723 B.C. Its worship of idols began right after they fought for and secured their inheritance in the promised land (Judges 18:1 - 2, 29 - 31).
Later in its history, Dan's idolatry was further encouraged when they, along with nine other tribes, split from a united Israel after the death of Solomon. The newly formed Northern Kingdom was ruled by King Jeroboam. Right after he took power (in 930 B.C.) he became afraid his new subjects would travel to Jerusalem to worship God, repent of splitting from their brethren, put themselves back under the rule of Solomon' son and kill him. His solution was to set up false gods within the boundaries of his kingdom to keep the people separate from their brethren in Judah's Kingdom. The first idol was placed in the city of Dan (see 1Kings 12:26 - 29).
Dan also did not always participate with the rest of the Israelite tribes in defending Israel or going on the offensive. When the prophetess Deborah sang about her victory over Jabin, the pagan Canaanite king, she openly asked WHY this set of Israelites stayed on their ships (Judges 5:17). As a balance, it has to be admitted that another tribe (Asher) was also slack in the battle Deborah sung about.
As a sidelight, the most well-known Biblical person from the tribe of Dan was Samson. Although he was a judge of Israel for twenty years and known for his miraculous strength, he was somewhat of a carnal man (not very spiritual) for a good part of his life.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 24, 2014 12:51:10 GMT -8
Your english has improved jimmie.
Dark yes, but there was always hope. In the case of rev, it paints a picture of the saints living among real awfulness for an indeterminate length of time. A total canvas of despair is also painted for those who 'take the mark', as in not being able to repent, and the saints having to watch this without being able to help. The greatest sign Yeshua said would be shown would be the sign of Yonah. Is not the sign of Yonah repentance?
|
|
|
|
Post by alon on Jun 24, 2014 22:10:28 GMT -8
Because rev makes a circus effort to set a dark stage for the end times. Kindly explain what you mean by "a circus effort." It's not "sort of dark," it IS dark! It's meant to be dark- but again, only for the unbelievers! Because they are the seven God chose to represent not only all churches, but the prophetic history of church "ages", in order, from that time to the end. You don't think God could pick the churches He wanted to use; to give to John in His end times prophecy? This is serious stuff you are fooling with here! I mean, if God made a mistake about something as important as the history of the church and the end times, well ... I am just so glad you are here to beat the drums and set us straight. Let's all just sing "Kumbayah" (or other suitable pagan refrain) as we rip that mistake out of our Bibles! What you are doing here goes past understanding and is pure heresy. Your english has improved jimmie. LROL! I'm not even going to comment on that one ... ( too easy ... just way too easy) And there is HOPE in Revelation! The same hope as always- the hope of Yonah- instead of taking the mark, REPENT! And it is no different than ever as far as salvation- we always have had to and will have to watch as loved ones make their own decision. Just in Revelation, the time is short, and the decision is NOW! Again, just like today. No one knows how much time they'll have, so the decision is no less poignant now as then. Your attitude about Revelation ignores thousands of years of human history as well. I'm guessing any Holocaust victim could tell you just what the end times might be like. How about when cities were sacked in ancient times- heck, not so ancient- look at the killing fields of Laos and Cambodia; or look at almost any region dominated by Islam. Now, I want to know why YOU have no HOPE! |
|
|
|
Post by alon on Jun 25, 2014 9:13:32 GMT -8
Contextually, you were speaking of the book of Revelation being dark. Good try, but you ain’t half as smart as you think you are.
You’ve no idea what all I’ve experienced or dealt with, and I’m pretty sure you’re wrong.
Since you asked: I don’t ever recall having trouble understanding what jimmie was saying. We’ve disagreed- argued even. But I always knew what he was saying.
Your posts, on the other hand, are often undecipherable and always so warped, twisted and convoluted as to give evidence of being the product of a demented mind.
“Oops!”
|
|
|
|
Post by alon on Jul 12, 2014 4:40:50 GMT -8
MOD NOTE: I removed several of bngo's posts that violated protocol here, as well as a few of mine. If you think yours looks goofy replying to a post that isn't there then please delete it. Thakns/todah!
Dan C
|
|
that underlie what they are being taught to do in the Epistles of Sha'ul...and pretty much ignore what Yehoshua Himself said in too many instances...it is very disheartening.
