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Post by Mark on Oct 25, 2009 7:48:02 GMT -8
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Post by zionlion on Oct 25, 2009 8:53:35 GMT -8
Thanks Mark. The document is very helpful.
The document seems to confirm that these were rabbinic theories and debates which, while interesting, cannot be thought to have any authority in regard to gentile acceptance by Elohim.
The statement, "Nowhere in the early rabbinic literature are the Noahchide Laws given as a means for gentiles to obtain a place in the world to come. 'Do the seven, go to heaven' is a much later rabbinic invention.", is telling.
We should also keep in mind that these were men who, obviously, did not recognize the New Covenant and therefore had not personally received the indwelling of the Ruach as was promised in the writings of the prophets. Their reasoning was not spiritually based, but of the flesh.
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Post by zionlion on Oct 25, 2009 9:43:58 GMT -8
tonga, I'm gonna do this in the classic, time-honored way. See what you think: Yesterday, tonga wrote, "Yep, just follow the Noahide laws...and better go reread that chapter  " Today, zionlion wrote, "I can't comment on noahide law. I really don't want to start a new thread. I like it here." Yesterday, tonga wrote, "And modest, too! LOL" Today, zionlion wrote, "I'm a modest, nice guy. Just remember, you said it first. I'm just agreeing with you. " Yesterday, tonga wrote, "How about the fact that there is no hell? That will keep you out of it...  " Today, zionlion wrote, "OY!" See? My post is neat and professional, unlike yours, which is filled with blobs of blank white space. Think about it. |
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Post by Mark on Oct 25, 2009 10:04:07 GMT -8
I snicker quietlyto myself when those in the Christian Church adopt the Noahide doctrine- it has no basis in Scripture but is Talmudic. If only they knew!
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Post by yeshuafreak on Oct 25, 2009 12:16:56 GMT -8
there is one law for all, but not all parts of the law are applicable to all. i agree with tonga. the aliens are to follow  , but not the whole thing. there are different laws for jews, gentiles, men, women, the priest, the israelite, etc. but its still ONE law. try acts 15 i agree well... you just made me realize that this forum is not like that. i thought it was because every time i saw a post that even hinted at the fallibility of the NT reuel was on it and locked the thread. but that made no sense to me- if the NT could be fallible, then a discussion on it should be allowed. so can you help me undersatnd the rules a little better? shalom |
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tonga
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Post by tonga on Oct 25, 2009 12:41:27 GMT -8
tonga, I'm gonna do this in the classic, time-honored way. See what you think: It confuses my poor old brain, but I will adapt I know...I was just giving you a bad time, LOL I like all that blank white space...like they say, the space between the letters has much to say...it's not only the letters that count. |
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Post by zionlion on Oct 25, 2009 12:59:56 GMT -8
'freak, You don't believe in hell and you question my theology? I'm non-plussed. |
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Post by zionlion on Oct 25, 2009 13:12:31 GMT -8
Mark, Although I can't confess to snickering much, I share your sentiments. |
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tonga
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Post by tonga on Oct 25, 2009 13:36:27 GMT -8
'freak, You don't believe in hell and you question my theology? I'm non-plussed. Is it clearly stated somewhere in the NT that Hell does indeed exist? |
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Post by zionlion on Oct 25, 2009 15:29:46 GMT -8
Yes. Some examples:
Matthew 5:29 - "If your right eye makes you stumble, tear it out and throw it from you; for it is better for you to lose one of the parts of your body, than for your whole body to be thrown into hell."
Matthew 10:28 - "Do not fear those who kill the body but are unable to kill the soul; but rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell."
Luke 12:5 - "But I will warn you whom to fear: fear the One who, after He has killed, has authority to cast into hell; yes, I tell you, fear Him!"
2 Peter 2:4 - "For if G-d did not spare angels when they sinned, but cast them into hell and committed them to pits of darkness, reserved for judgment;"
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Post by Mark on Oct 25, 2009 16:50:51 GMT -8
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tonga
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Post by tonga on Oct 27, 2009 9:49:14 GMT -8
Thanks, I'll go take a look and post any questions there, in order to avoid derailing this thread any further... |
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tonga
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Post by tonga on Oct 27, 2009 9:52:28 GMT -8
Hi Tonga, When things don't make sense to you or you understand something different, please express it. Thanks, I will be glad to ask questions when I do not understand, but I think I'll refrain from expressing my personal beliefs as that is not why I came. But I neither want to convince nor argue that others are wrong, nor have others try to influence what I believe. Just understanding is all I'm seeking |
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Post by zionlion on Oct 28, 2009 8:36:44 GMT -8
From the beginning you've said you came here for understanding. Are you finding it? Could you explain what is driving your curiosity? (BTW - I'm thinking of changing my UN to "modest nice guy".  |
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tonga
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Post by tonga on Oct 28, 2009 10:42:02 GMT -8
From the beginning you've said you came here for understanding. Are you finding it? Yes, I have learned a great deal and am getting a better grip on why messianics do what they do. Just exactly that-curiosity. If I run across something I don't know or understand, I like to learn about it. Also, since the Messianic faith seems to be growing, I thought it would be good to see what it is about...there is very little presence of it in our area, but if it grows it's nice to know a bit about it in order to form an opinion based on knowledge rather than bias. |
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and one ordinance for you and for the alien who sojourns with you. [Numbers 15:16]
"
