Headcovering for woman?

[rlrmcb]

mark said:

Hi rlrmcb,

There is a lot of overlap of discussion about various texts. Have you read the 1st Corinthians 11 thread that is linked above? Your questions may be addressed there.

Mark

I have read it. Very well written and explained concerning that passage, and others referenced. It does help to clear up some things, and merits further study by me.

I do have concerns at times concerning how within the overall body of Messiah, how an organization or a body of believers within an organization treats particular passages; such as what is discussed within this thread. My concern comes out of having been in an organization in an earlier time of my life, that had severe imbalances in application of the Bible, and no checks and balances, so as to help ensure that all were accountable concerning the beliefs of an organization. If the leader thought that something was so, (without actually referring to the original texts at all), then it became so, regardless of the error, which was usually just enough to cause a problem.

Of course, this is by no means implying that you are doing that, it's just that I have heard so much teaching on some things over the years as to actually cause my head to spin. Which meant that I have had to do some praying and studying on a given subject, and honest searching of my soul and spirit.

I do have an honest inquisitiveness into all of this concerning the over all body of Messiah, and intend to learn about things from various perspectives, including of course Messianic Judaism. I believe by doing this it will help me to learn more about how God wishes me to govern the life He has given, and maybe give me more insight into how the earlier members of our Body lived under God and with each other.

[Mark]

You are very prudent and I applaud that greatly! It is unfortunate that such prudence must come from a history of disappointment and disallusionment.

There is a reliable method of determining truth in Scripture. It is rabbinical standard of two or three witnesses. This doesn't mean that you have to find two mirror texts that say exactly the same thing. It does say that there should be a natural flow of context that will validate any particular doctrine: meaning, one position cannot discredit another, or one particular interpretation must fit neatly and consistently with all others. Here's where it gets particularly tricky. The Christian perspective may use this exclusively in the New Testament and still come up with a number of valid interpretations of a particular text. Yet, following the rules of interpretation as the 1st Century believers would have followed them means that each New Testament doctrine must be established on the basis and in harmony with two Old Testament portions of text. Now, most of us don't go to that detail in these threads to make our position. And the rabbis have been at this for four thousand years and still don't agree on everything. Yet, in Judaism, a little spinning now and again is a good thing. It is as important to to burden over the text and seek a relationship with the Father through His letters to us as it is to get the correct answer.

[rlrmcb]

Thank you.

I think in part it does come from what you have mentioned. I have since forgiven them, but I have not forgotten the lessons. It also taught me to be careful, because of the fact that there are those who are purposely in error, and then there are those who are in error due to neglecting the Scriptures, and using their own opinions. It is something that is in many religious organizations, which I attribute in part to the fallibility of mankind in a fallen state. I am thankful for the forgiveness of God, and that he redeems failures. The Bible is full of examples of that. I would like to think that some of those who are in error are not beyond
redemption.

Well, in large part I went off subject. I think women who do not purposely act out of rebellion and embrace their gender, will ultimately act and stay in their gender. There are many who do cut their hair, but keep in the feminine style of the day, that is not real short and what have you. I have found, interestingly enough, that many women who do cut their hair real short, do tend towards rebellion against being feminine. I'm not against head coverings of course, in the sense of the feminine type of head covering. I seem to remember from my youth, that many women wore scarves over their head to church at one time, and out in public for that matter. I used to think it was mainly to keep their hair do from being wind blown. Perhaps there was more to it?

[bryce]

Here's that passage about the wife suspected of adultery,

"The priest shall then have the woman stand before the LORD and let {the hair of} the woman's head go loose..." (Numbers 5:18, NASB)

How can she have her head uncovered if it wasn't first covered?

Head coverings for married women is something that stretches back to at least the days of Moses. In Jewish tradition, a married woman covers her head and if she's caught in public with her head uncovered is a shameful thing and grounds for divorce.

[yeshuafreak]

remember how R. Sha'ul concluded this portion of scripture: (YLT):

16and if any one doth think to be contentious, we have no such custom, neither the assemblies of God.

now, this can mean "we have no other cutsom other than the one given", but it most likely means we have no set custom to observe. the greek "no such custom" seems to refer to the whole of the argument, not only the first clause of that verse. we wont get into semantics.

anyway, what Sha'ul is saying is that if anyone wants to disagree, dont get a tiffy for that is his own personal halakhah on the subject.

shalom

[bryce]

I don't think that we can be overly dogmatic about traditions. It isn't worth destroying a brother over. If someone refuses to accept the custom of a community we should leave them be and I think that, in most cases, they will come around. After all, who would want to continue to go against this ancient custom after they joined a community where it is being observed? A contentious person will usually settle once they realise that they can follow the custom out of love for their brothers and not because it is a sin issue. Shalom.

[lawrenceofisrael]

You´re right Bryce if somebody doesn´t accept it and likes to fight (verbally) over it it should not be our custom (as Shaul said) to engage in any verbal fight. This destroys the unity of the believers. We discuss about it in a respectful manner and finally come to an agreement but even if not we are still brothers.
I really think it takes a lot time for the typical westerner to get used to such customs cause people might accuse the women of being oppressed etc. which is nonsense obviously. But still it might take sometime for the women or the men to get to the point of practising all the commandments.
I personally would want my wife to not only cover her body but also her hair.
May peace and blessings be upon us all.

[gail1954]

I found this video on YouTube hopefully it is a help:https://youtu.be/Y3_9ChfD_zU

[gail1954]

I hope this video I found on YouTube is helpful:https://youtu.be/Y3_9ChfD_zU