Debleeding Hamburger? Hot dogs, Bacon, Bolgona?

[R' Y'hoshua Moshe]

Baruch HaShem! Welcome back Vaneide!

Shalom,

Reuel

[Vaneide]

Shabbat Shalom,

Thanks Reuel, I will do my best to participat more often. Also I am doing my best to eat kosher, not like the rabbinical teaching because I can't reach wthat they says. But I am trying to eat the food that says we should to, and avoiding to eat what she says we shouldin't.

Vaneide.

[Seeker2]

I also am trying to eat kosher and I think I am doing well, except for this: the meat is not slaughtered in the biblically prescribed way (i cant afford kosher on the internet either) and I dont know how to debleed hamburger. I cant see myself being a vegatarian. Any suggestions???

[R' Y'hoshua Moshe]

Just do the best you can to observe the instructions found in Vayikra (Lev.) 23. If you don't have access to Rabbinically kosher foods sources...remove as much blood as possible from your meats by wrapping it in kosher salt, or avoid excessively bloody meats altogether. Most kosher salt will supply you with instructions on how long and how to wrap the meat in the salt. Allow it to sit until it draws most of the blood out.

I am a little un-orthodox in regards to the following recommendation, but the command in simply tells us to not eat the meat with it's blood. But, the reality is that there will -always- be blood cells in the meat no matter how careful you are...So, where do you draw the line?? Should we come up with a number of blood cells where we must draw the line in the sand? Maybe we should draw the line at 613 blood cells
Although, in most "kosher" meat sources there are probably many more blood cells than this. We must not make observance seem impossible for those coming to it's truth. Simply remove as much blood from a meat source considered kosher by Vayikra (Lev.) 23, thank Adonai for it, and enjoy it

If you do this, I believe you do well.

Shalom chaverim,

Reuel

[Nachshon]

True dat. We were having a similar discussion here recently. How much is too much? In , I'm often struck by what I call Father's "Practical impracticality." By which I mean that itself seems like an extremely impractical thing, but when you get into it, each commandment is extremely practical. Obviously we can't get every drop of blood out of an animal. I think the point is to get out what flows, or what can be removed. The point is not to eat blood, not to never consume a drop of blood in meat. Does that make any sense?

Shalom,
Nachshon

[Chizuk Emunah]

Of course I agree with you two here. In fact, after the meat has been soaked and salted, any blood left over is such a miniscule amount that it is considered "meat juice."

[Tzav_laTzav]

Personally, when preparing/eating meat, I see the blood that is impossible to get out of the meat as a great theological lesson. What does it teach me?

That I am not a little god unto myself: I have never and will never achieve human perfection; I am constantly dependent upon HaShem, upon Messiah's sacrifice and resurrection, and upon His perfection.

We can work and work with that meat, and it will never be free of blood. I can work and work on myself and my faults, and I will never be humanly perfect. Regarding the meat and regarding my life, I must continually depend upon Messiah's perfection and upon the idea that HaShem sees me by looking through Him.

[R' Y'hoshua Moshe]

[Tzav_laTzav]

[Prodigal Girl]

Hi all new here. Where I am at right now is this: I stopped eating shellfish and pork about a year ago, before I actually started attending a Messianic synagogue. I am still mulling over the blood thing. My rabbi says not to worry, because according to him, modern slaughtering methods remove the blood. I have no idea, I know nothing about butchering and have never studied it. The meat looks the same in the stores to me; both look red and look like they have some blood. So I guess I will have to study butchering before I can make up my mind. I was surprised to find out that hunting is against the rabbinical practices, because of the difficulty with killing it by slitting its throat. I did not know that. I come from a long family of hunters, NRA types so this is quite a shock!

[Mark]

First, hunting is not condmemned in ; and the use of bullets (as opposed to spears and arrows of David's day) is not necessarily relevant so long as you understand that the first priority when field dressing the animal is to ensure that it is properly bled out. This is pretty easy in a forest where you can hang the animal while dressing it- more difficult in an open field; though (I'm no hunter) I'm told that it is possible.

What is more of a concern to me is understanding the practices by which meat you buy at the grocery store is handled. Some butchers will actually add blood to the meat that they put on the shelf to make it appear fresher. The blood that they add may not nessarily come from the type of meat that it is added to; so you could actually have pork blood in your pot roast. This is rarely done in local butcher-shops because of the sanitary risks; however large grocery chains that use central meat-processing centers should be suspect. For this reason, we recommend our congregants not buy meat from large chains such as Krogers, Safeway or Wal-Mart. I have personally interviewed the butchers at the local stores here in town to understand what their practices are. Most have no problems with making the minor changes necessary for us to buy meat from them-, since these practices are really most hygenic anyway (several were doing what we would require anyway)
1. Pork and shellfish are handled on a separate table from beef and chicken.
2. Utensils are cleaned thoroughly between uses
3. The most common problem is the meat slicer; but as long as there is more than one, it is no problem to designate one for pork products and the other for beef and chicken.

I recommend that you or your rabbi follow up with the grocery stores. They really appreciate talking about their work and are usually very anxious to serve you the best that they can.

[Prodigal Girl]

I guess I will do as you suggest, and spend some time talking with the butcher! I was hoping I could find out some of this information on line.
I can see now, why Kosher butchered meat might be preferable, if they have contamination between pork and beef. Because the Bible makes it clear that we are not to touch dead pig.

[Prodigal Girl]

mark said:

"First, hunting is not condmemned in ; and the use of bullets (as opposed to spears and arrows of David's day) is not necessarily relevant so long as you understand that the first priority when field dressing the animal is to ensure that it is properly bled out. This is pretty easy in a forest where you can hang the animal while dressing it- more difficult in an open field; though (I'm no hunter) I'm told that it is possible."

So what you are saying is, that it can be killed in a "non-kosher" manner out in the wild, but not in town. You can shoot it or spear it, then put it out of its misery when you locate if it is not dead yet, by whatever means finish the job if not already dead, then bleed it. How is that different than what happens in a non-kosher butchering facility? Is this a special rule for outdoors/hulnting?

[Chizuk Emunah]

I personally disagree with eating meat that was hunted, as it precludes the possibility of it being slaughtered in a kosher manner.

[Mark]

Not all kosher is the same. There are several standards of kosher, all bearing their own seal, from diiffering theological positions. The bleeding out process and the acceptable method of killing varies. Have you ever heard of a domesticated deer or gazelle? Yet, Deuteronomy 14 specifically mentions these animals as being edible meat products. In Leviticus 17:13, hunting is specifically acknowledged as a legitimate practice, provided the animal is properly bled out.