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Post by Bernie on Mar 9, 2006 21:38:03 GMT -8
Hi,
Me and my sister have been wondering about this. She has been salting her steaks and other meat to remove the blood.
I do not eat such things. I however eat ground hamburger, beef hotdogs, beef bacon, beef bolgna.
How does one debleed hamburger?
The method for the steaks and stuff seems unreasonable for hamburger, as it would not rinse off so simply it seems to us.
Also we do not believe the hotdogs, bolgna or beef bacon needs debleeding, it does not appear to leak any blood, and the bacon comes from a halal store.
Also the meat comes from Aldi's which for some reason sells a lot of products which are on lists as being 'clean'.
Does anybody know about debleeding such products? Are they just automatically okay because there is no bleeding at all in them?
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Post by Blake on Mar 10, 2006 4:51:50 GMT -8
Hi, Me and my sister have been wondering about this. She has been salting her steaks and other meat to remove the blood. I do not eat such things. I however eat ground hamburger, beef hotdogs, beef bacon, beef bolgna. How does one debleed hamburger? The method for the steaks and stuff seems unreasonable for hamburger, as it would not rinse off so simply it seems to us. Also we do not believe the hotdogs, bolgna or beef bacon needs debleeding, it does not appear to leak any blood, and the bacon comes from a halal store. Also the meat comes from Aldi's which for some reason sells a lot of products which are on lists as being 'clean'. Does anybody know about debleeding such products? Are they just automatically okay because there is no bleeding at all in them? For a meat to suitible for eating it must be slaughtered in the way prescribed in the  which involves slitting the throat of the beast and letting it bleed all the blood out naturally. Any meats with a seal of being approved by a Rabbinical authority should be slaughtered in the correct way. If an animal was slain in a gentile slaughterhouse even if you salt it to remove the blood, it is still not suitable for eating. (Not to mention how bad it is for you to ingest such a large amount of salt.) |
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Post by Bernie on Mar 10, 2006 5:39:12 GMT -8
Blake,
Thank you for your reply. Is Halal the same as what the bible requires at least regarding beef? I see they sell shrimp, so they must not be the exact same. I live in an area where the Halal shops are numerous and I have never laid eyes on a Jewish shop. It helps because you can even order pizza from Arabs where they state that they do not even cut the pork pizza's with the same utensils as they use on the hamburger ones.
She rinses the sea salt off the meat after she debleeds the meat. We got the instructions for debleeding meat from a Kosher site. Just nothing on ground beef.
And since there is no visible blood on the other items of beef that I eat, we were wondering.
Also about Chicken and Turkey? Debleeding?
I have seen one meat item in the stores that says Kosher, it is like a 6 pack of hotdogs. Thus I have been stuck depending on Halal stores for beef products.
I am going to check on the slaughter house bleeding procedures of the Halal stores. I had an African friend of mine (Muslim) get so upset, after picking a goat at a farm and then watching the farmer shoot the animal. He could not eat the animal. So he just paid for it and told the farmer to dispose of it. So in some sense there must be some expectation that a animal is slaughtered a certain way.
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Post by Chizuk Emunah on Mar 10, 2006 9:05:41 GMT -8
Shalom Bernie, Halal is very similiar to kosher. However, Muslims eat food that is not permitted to us, such as camel and shellfish. Is there a Synagogue in your area? If so, it may be worth it to contact the Rabbi and see where he purchases his kosher food. If not, then I believe that you can order meat directly from www.kosher.com. |
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Post by Blake on Mar 11, 2006 6:37:27 GMT -8
Also, if there is are no Jews in your area vegetarianism is a surefireway to stay kosher.
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Post by Bernie on Mar 11, 2006 11:25:26 GMT -8
Thank you both for your replies. I am going to check around for a synagogue. Smile.
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Post by R' Y'hoshua Moshe on Mar 26, 2006 11:18:43 GMT -8
Shalom Bernie, I believe if at all possible that the meat should be as kosher as possible. But, sometimes you have to work with what you have. The scriptures technically do not tell us that we must slaughter an animal in any given way other than we must let the blood of the animal drain upon the ground and that it must be covered up with dirt. The following are the scriptures in question: Devarim/Deu. 12:16 "Only you shall not eat the blood; you shall pour it out on the earth as water". Devarim/Deu. 15:23 "Only you shall not eat its blood; you shall pour it out on the ground as water." Vayikra/Lev. 17:12-13 "Therefore I have said to the children of Yisra'el, "No person among you shall eat blood, neither shall any stranger who lives as a foreigner among you eat blood." "'Whatever man there is of the children of Yisra'el, or of the strangers who live as foreigners among them, who takes in hunting any animal or bird that may be eaten; he shall pour out its blood, and cover it with dust." Keep in mind in Yeshua The Messiah we are not bound by Rabbinic halachah as we are bound by the ...the Words of our Elohim. Therefore, for those whom do not have ready access to Rabbinicaly kosher food...do your best...do what the scriptures command. Remove as much blood as possible through whatever method (salting works great) that you have at your disposal. Even with rabbinic koshering all of the blood cells are not removed. So then, how do we determine how much blood is to be removed? It is up to each individual to do their very best to remove as much blood as possible. I personally believe this fulfills the mitzvah (commandment). But, the rabbinic koshering process is what I would recommend if you have access to it. Shalom chaverim, Reuel |
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Post by Talmidah on Nov 1, 2006 7:50:47 GMT -8
Bernie,
Most times if ground meat is broiled, any blood will drain off as it is cooking, so if you are concerned with getting rid of as much blood as possible, with ground meat, this is the way to go.
If you do find a kosher butcher, you can ask for meat that has been koshered before it is ground, then you can use it in any manner you want.
ps. hallel also differs from kosher in that they DO mix meat and milk.
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Post by Nachshon on Nov 1, 2006 8:14:27 GMT -8
Also, if there is are no Jews in your area vegetarianism is a surefireway to stay kosher. That's not necessarily true. There are some strange genetic engineering practices going on now that I would not at all call kasher. There are also some other practices, processing and otherwise, that can render it very difficult for even a vegetarian to remain kasher. |
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Post by Nachshon on Nov 1, 2006 8:16:19 GMT -8
Bernie, Most times if ground meat is broiled, any blood will drain off as it is cooking, so if you are concerned with getting rid of as much blood as possible, with ground meat, this is the way to go. If you do find a kosher butcher, you can ask for meat that has been koshered before it is ground, then you can use it in any manner you want. ps. hallel also differs from kosher in that they DO mix meat and milk. The standard of not mixing meat and dairy is a purely Rabbinical practice. It cannot be found in . Shalom, Nachshon |
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Post by Chizuk Emunah on Nov 1, 2006 8:38:22 GMT -8
This is true. However, the is very clear about not cooking the two together. |
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Post by Nachshon on Nov 1, 2006 8:54:32 GMT -8
On the contrary, I believe that the standard is clearly given; do not boil a goat in his mother's milk. This is a pagan harvest ritual (that is why the first time it appears is with the commands concerning the harvest, not Kashrut). I do not believe the Mitzvah extends any further than that.
Shalom,
Nachshon
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Post by Chizuk Emunah on Nov 1, 2006 9:34:39 GMT -8
On the contrary, I believe that the standard is clearly given; do not boil a goat in his mother's milk. This is a pagan harvest ritual (that is why the first time it appears is with the commands concerning the harvest, not Kashrut). I do not believe the Mitzvah extends any further than that. Shalom, Nachshon If you look at it simply from the pashat, then yes. But I believe that there is an implied interpretation there that applies to all animals. Shalom, Natanel |
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Post by Nachshon on Nov 1, 2006 9:36:37 GMT -8
I believe that the p'shat is merely "don't boil a kid in its mother's milk" and the deeper meaning is "don't do as the pagans do." As I pointed out, this was a pagan harvest ritual; a sacrifice to bring in a good harvest.
Shalom,
Nachshon
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Post by Vaneide on Nov 2, 2006 2:43:46 GMT -8
Shalom Bernie, I believe if at all possible that the meat should be as kosher as possible. But, sometimes you have to work with what you have. The scriptures technically do not tell us that we must slaughter an animal in any given way other than we must let the blood of the animal drain upon the ground and that it must be covered up with dirt. The following are the scriptures in question: Devarim/Deu. 12:16 "Only you shall not eat the blood; you shall pour it out on the earth as water". Devarim/Deu. 15:23 "Only you shall not eat its blood; you shall pour it out on the ground as water." Vayikra/Lev. 17:12-13 "Therefore I have said to the children of Yisra'el, "No person among you shall eat blood, neither shall any stranger who lives as a foreigner among you eat blood." "'Whatever man there is of the children of Yisra'el, or of the strangers who live as foreigners among them, who takes in hunting any animal or bird that may be eaten; he shall pour out its blood, and cover it with dust." Keep in mind in Yeshua The Messiah we are not bound by Rabbinic halachah as we are bound by the ...the Words of our Elohim. Therefore, for those whom do not have ready access to Rabbinicaly kosher food...do your best...do what the scriptures command. Remove as much blood as possible through whatever method (salting works great) that you have at your disposal. Even with rabbinic koshering all of the blood cells are not removed. So then, how do we determine how much blood is to be removed? It is up to each individual to do their very best to remove as much blood as possible. I personally believe this fulfills the mitzvah (commandment). But, the rabbinic koshering process is what I would recommend if you have access to it. Shalom chaverim, Reuel Shalom, Very good answer!!!! Vaneide. |
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which involves slitting the throat of the beast and letting it bleed all the blood out naturally. Any meats with a seal of being approved by a Rabbinical authority should be slaughtered in the correct way.
