How do you tie your tzitzit?

[Nachshon]

Yitzkhaq, I've actually begun tying my tzitziot in the manner I mentioned above. Since then, I've realised its importance. At first I was really disappointed that no one could see them...then it hit me. lol.

[Nachshon]

Oh, but regarding blue, I'm going to have to disagree with Yitzkhaq. I don't believe that a specific blue was commanded. I agree with the Karaite position on this, that Tekhelet is a generic blue, and not a specific one.

[Mark]

My understanding, and I'm no chemist, is that the color of techelet varies from a light sky blue to a deep purple, depending upon its exposure to sun during the setting process. This would seem to make the color a little ambiguous.

[Nachshon]

That's fascinating, Mark. I had never heard that before. I'll have to look that up when I have a chance.

[Yitzchak]

mark said:

My understanding, and I'm no chemist, is that the color of techelet varies from a light sky blue to a deep purple, depending upon its exposure to sun during the setting process. This would seem to make the color a little ambiguous.

This I understand Mark, however, the die used to produce the color is the same in all instances. So, it is not really about the particular shade, but the process for producing it.

Shalom,

Yitzchak

[Mark]

I agree completely. And to be honest. I've been very diligent about not asking how the thread has been dyed blue on my titziot.

[Yitzchak]

I personally buy mine from a source which I believe to be the most trusted in Israel.

Shalom,

Yitzchak

[czygyny]

yitzchak said:

We should always be led by the Spirit of G-d, but be aware as I am sure you are, that the Ruach will never lead us in a direction that is opposed to the .

Shalom,

Yitzchak

Brother Yitzchak,

As you have surely surmised, I am quite new to observation. I am freshly come out of christian idolatry and I am sure that I still waft the odor of the world in my behavior and thought processes. I am also going this alone, having no instruction from learned sages other than the tiny congregation I go to on Sabbath, and a family that mocks my attempts.

I mean no disrespect at all when I try to emulate the written scripture only and discard the oral traditions, I am not wise enough to discern between good 'tradition' and 'bad' tradition given by sages. Learning what I have about the oral teachings has horrified me, and made me turn from it completely. It is a great struggle to just come to terms with what I have been led out of and in to.

However, I will take your ministrations to heart, and I am sorry my attempts to fulfill this commandment falls far short, in your eyes. Perhaps I am in error in even thinking I should wear tzitziyot. Time and prayer will tell.

Shalom

[Yitzchak]

Dear Achot, (Sister}

You have no idea how wonderful it is to know that you have come out of a system that is teaching in opposition to the of G-d, and are now attempting to walk in the light of HaShem. Blessed Be His Name.

Of course, when learning something new, one cannot expect to take in everything at once. Especially when transitioning out of xtianity and trying to rewire your brain, so to speak.

Anything I say is out of love and concern, so please do not be offended. You are not falling short in my eyes, and have no need to look toward me. As we have both said, we must be led by the L-rd.

Keep in mind, that while it is wise to be wary of the traditions of men, not all tradition is bad. There are many that line up with . In addition, some of these traditions have been passed down and have been observed in the same way for 1500 years. This of course adds another issue that we must consider when planning to follow a Mitzvot in a different way. What is the witness to those around us? How would an observant Jew who does not know Messiah react to our observance?

As you mentioned at the beginning of your post, everything is new. I think it is wise that you mentioned "time and prayer" will tell. We have too many people that come out of the church, and end up making Jewishness and observance their new idol, rather than entering into an intimate relationship with Avinu.

Shalom,

Yitzchak

[Chizuk Emunah]

I also agree with Yitzchak about techelet. Halacha requires that it come through the chilazon, so I purchase mine through the p'til techelet foundation (they are the same ones who produced it for the Temple Foundation) as I believe that they use the correct die.

[Bob]

I realize I'm a bit late coming into this discussion...
It seems to me from this thread that there are 2 lines of thinking regarding the techelet.
1) It doesn't matter where the die comes from as long as it is blue (of various degrees) and
2) The die may only be extracted from the Mediterranean snail that tradition and scientific evidence indicates was where the die for the original techelet came from.
It is also my understanding from what I have read that the 2nd beliefs greatest argument is not to offend others who hold to this teaching.
I am reminded what Rav Sha'ul (hope I spelled it correctly... my first time) said in 1 Cor 10... Though he is speaking about food sacrificed to idols... I think the concept could apply here. I paraphrase "For the sake of conscience and for peace between the brethren don't ask"
It seems to me that the only way one of my brothers under Yeshua would know that the techelet came from another dye is if I broadcast it.
It seems to me best not to ask or tell for conscience sake so that I will offend neither of my brethren.

[Bob]

I found this to be extremely interesting.
The Tzitzit are eight strands, one longer than the other 7, this one is called the shamish, it is the one that makes the coils. They equal all of the mitzvot together. How do they do this? There are 613 mitzvahs in the . The numercal value of the word Titzit is equal to 600, plus the 8 strands, plus the 5 coils. This is a total of 613.
The 5 coils also represent the name of Hashem (Yud / Key / Vav / Key). The coils are wrapped 7, 8, 11, 13. The seven and eight equals fifteen, which is equal to the two letters, yud and hey. The first two letters of the Name of G-d. Eleven is the equivalent of vav and heh, the last two letters of the Name of G-d. Together they make the complete 4 letter numerical value of the Holy Name of G-d. The thirteen is equal to the word "echad" which means "one". So when we look at the tzitzit, we see the Name of G-d, He is One, and His 613 mitzvot. And in this we enwrap ourselves.
I googled how to make tzitzit. The site was called For Every Jew".

[Bob]

notzriyehudi said:

What I am open to (after some additional research) is using different sources for the blue die, so long as they pass the afore-mentioned stringent test.

I got lost on this point... What is the test?

[Mark]

I think the "strengent test" would be to see if the color fades. Techelet sets permenantly and therefore should not.

The debate goes way, way back as to whether the word in the text "tekhelet" is refering to the specific dye or to the color that comes from the dye. Hebrew can be tricky this way. The word adawm means red. It can also mean blood, because of the color; yet we do not believe that the ram skin that covered the Tabernacle was literally dted in blood.

Yet, to Yitchak's point; if correct dye is available to us, why would we not prefer it? If it is about walking in obedience, then it is certainly not walking in a way that merely looks the same; but making the effort to do exactly as Adonai commanded.

This may be confusing, like I'm maybe not giving a clear answer. Get used to it. This is what Judaism is like! Yet, most important is another quote from our brother, Yitchak.

I

am also greatly concerned, and I am not speaking this to you, just as it relates to this subject, that many of these same people are actually making Jewishness and Jewish ritual idols. The focus becomes more about what I can do to be more observant, and less about how can come closer and be more intimate with Yeshua.

Seek truth in relationship with Messiah, not just truth for truth's sake, not to just do what seems best or right. It's all about walking more closely with Him.

[Bob]

So my reason for wanting to wear the Tzitzit is for a reminder not to sin. The tzitzit itself is not important (other than it was the L-rds command for the reminder) to me. I would want to comply just as much if he said to wear a crucifix or a ring on my finger. Sin is the barrier against a good relationship with G-d.
The question regarding the techelet is what is throwing me for a curve. The does not say how to dye the techelet. It only states how to use it. It was understood at the time how the dye was obtained.
My question is if we are using the techelet (which we should) are we sinning if we obtain blue thread from a source other than this Mediterranean snail? Are we breaking ? Or is this point "straining at the gnat and swallowing the camel"?