How do you tie your tzitzit?

[R' Y'hoshua Moshe]

I think that one day soon we will see a mature Messianic Judaism on several levels. David Stern's "Messianic Jewish Manifesto" gives a great outline in regards to what needs to happen to establish this.

In regards to wearing tzitzit, I think that those whom do so should only do so if they are serious about keeping ....otherwise our witness as a community will be damaged. The last thing we want is for the tzitzit to represent lawlessness and messed up theology.

Shalom achi,

Reuel

[Chizuk Emunah]

I think that one day soon we will see a mature Messianic Judaism on several levels. David Stern's "Messianic Jewish Manifesto" gives a great outline in regards to what needs to happen to establish this.

The only thing I take issue with about Stern and other leaders, is their teaching that is good for the Jew but bad for the Goy.

In regards to wearing tzitzit, I think that those whom do so should only do so if they are serious about keeping ....otherwise our witness as a community will be damaged. The last thing we want is for the tzitzit to represent lawlessness and messed up theology.

I could not agree more.

[Rick]

Reuel said:

In regards to wearing tzitzit, I think that those whom do so should only do so if they are serious about keeping ....otherwise our witness as a community will be damaged. The last thing we want is for the tzitzit to represent lawlessness and messed up theology.
Reuel

This has been my concern, that one may be sincerely keeping , but PERCIEVED otherwise as you stated above, "lawless" or just "messed up".

[R' Y'hoshua Moshe]

The only thing I take issue with about Stern and other leaders, is their teaching that is good for the Jew but bad for the Goy.

I don't think they communicate that it is bad for the Gentiles. They simply state that Gentiles in Messiah are not expected to learn and walk out in their lives. Of course, I, and I believe the scriptures disagree. But, the outline and info given in the book can be applied apart from his opinions regarding Gentiles and our Heavenly Father's .

This has been my concern, that one may be sincerely keeping , but PERCIEVED otherwise as you stated above, "lawless" or just "messed up".

What I said was meant for those whom are not serious about keeping . For those whom are....tie your tzitzityot .....Yeshua did.

Shalom chaverim,

Reuel

[Chizuk Emunah]

But, the outline and info given in the book can be applied apart from his opinions regarding Gentiles and our Heavenly Father's .

Very true. There are many times that I won't hesitate to quote Stern. His "New Testament" commentary is invaluable.

[The 614th Mitzvot]

I think gentiles should wear tzitzit, but kippot should depend on the person. I think a gentile should wear tzitzit to remember the commandments. If one does not want to be confusing to others simply tuck in the tzitzit. It is important that laws apply to everyone in the covenant of Yohshuah HaMoshiach (therfore in the covenant of Yisroel Avinu {Israel our Father}) Both are covenants that are valid, however, while one is older, it is still valid and in place.

[Rick]

Is the tying a tradition? I don't recall ever reading about tying the tzitziyot, only to make them on the corners, and to put a blue cord in them? Or is it implied? Did I just miss it?

Rick

[R' Y'hoshua Moshe]

You are correct. The various ways of tying tzitzityot are tradition. But, as in much observence there are several wonderful ways to express a commandment. I don't believe there is any one way that is correct. But, as you have said....

only to make them on the corners, and to put a blue cord in them?

Shalom achi,

Reuel

[Tikva]

For those of you who tie your own tzitzit, what type/weight of thread do you use? Where do you buy it? Is there a good site to buy it online? There are so many ways of tying tzitzit as well -- how do you know which is correct? Can you tie it pretty much however you want? Or do they all have to incorporate certain elements and otherwise be tied whichever way you want? Do the threads have to be white (with the blue), or can they be any colour?

Also, how does a businessman wear tzitzit? It's not really acceptable to have a dress shirt untucked so your tzitzit hang out... Is is "okay" to wear them on your tallit katan but have it tucked inside your dress shirt so it's hidden? Anyone in this situation?

Sorry for all the questions!!!

[Chizuk Emunah]

Shalom Tikva,

I actually take the easy way out and just purchase pre-tied tzitzit. All tzitzit should contain techelet (the biblical blue die) as it is part of the mitzvah. You can ask several others here where they purchase (some make their own) their tallit katanot. I buy mine from www.neatzit.com/. You can order them with true techelet.

As far as the wearing goes, I work in a professional environment and though my shirts are tucked in, I still leave the tzitzit partially untucked and visible. I have yet to run into a problem with it. Of course I do make my religious beliefs known, so it's really a non-issue. Whether to wear them untucked at work depends on your environment. If you work for a larger company or corporation they more strictly adhere to Federal non-discrimination policies.

Hope that helped answer some of your questions.

Shalom,
Natanel

[Yitzchak]

tikva said:

For those of you who tie your own tzitzit, what type/weight of thread do you use? Where do you buy it? Is there a good site to buy it online? There are so many ways of tying tzitzit as well -- how do you know which is correct? Can you tie it pretty much however you want? Or do they all have to incorporate certain elements and otherwise be tied whichever way you want? Do the threads have to be white (with the blue), or can they be any colour?

Also, how does a businessman wear tzitzit? It's not really acceptable to have a dress shirt untucked so your tzitzit hang out... Is is "okay" to wear them on your tallit katan but have it tucked inside your dress shirt so it's hidden? Anyone in this situation?

Sorry for all the questions!!!

Shalom,

I recommend www.begedivri.com

Beged Ivri is located in Jerusalem, and is run by a great guy named Reuven Prager. Reuven has been in the business of not only restoring biblical clothing, but many items related to the Temple.

He is responsible for re-introducing the holy half shekel spoken of in scripture.

On his site, you can purchase Tzittzit with techelet, and learn are even instructions on how to tie. He also produces some great biblical tunics. I just bought two of them which I usually wear on the Yom Tovim.

Also Reuven comes to the states twice a year, and tours different parts of the country. He generally speaks in churches, and messianic congregations, as he is not welcomed in traditional Judaism. This is interesting, as he has not accepted Messiah yet.
Reuven does a great presentation on the dyes of the techelet, on biblical weights, on the half shekek. and many other interesting Temple items. We have him at our congregation here in Orlando, and the other congregation in West Palm once a year.


Hope this helps.

Shalom,

Yitzchak

[Nachshon]

I actually don't tie my own normally. I preferr using a Kariate tie, which is too complicated for me to do as yet. I want to learn it, but it's pretty crazy.
I use it because, after going over the laws, and reading a Karaite explanation of it, I decided theirs was probably the most accurate way of tying. it looks like a chain, like it's supposed to.

Shalom,
Nachshon

[Mark]

Hi Tikva,

I think we missed one of your questions:

a shirt can be tucked in over a tallit katan; but the titziot are pulled out and over the trousers, so the titziot are still visible. Usually they hand long enough that this isn't too difficult and if your shirt is folded carefully it doesn't show as being all bunched up around your waist.

[Tikva]

Thanks for all the answers everyone! Nachshon, where does it say the tzitzit should look like a chain? I think I read something about that before, but can't remember where or why.

And one more question, since I didn't word it properly the first time around: Can you use other colours besides white? For example, black tzitzit with the techelet?

Has anyone seen www.zipporahreshel.com/ ? She has some really neat tzitzit that I like... but she uses her own tying patteren and different colours of thread. I just want to know if these types of tzitzit are accepted as correct.

Thanks again :-)

[Chizuk Emunah]

Yeah, people just can't go around making up their own patterns/ties. I have some serious problems with that. The biblical tzitzit consists of white thread with techelet.

Keep in mind that kosher techelet is a particular die that only comes from one source in Mediterranean/Mid East. For questions about that you can reference: www.tekhelet.com/ Unless someone is using that for their techelet, then it would be preferable to just use white.

Shalom,
Natanel