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Post by yearn2learn on Oct 18, 2006 15:26:07 GMT -8
I'm quite new to the Messianic way of life.
Why, as I study different resources, do I find various ways to spell our Messiah's name? Which is correct and how could it be that there are numerous ways to spell it? It seems to me that there should just be one way. Period!
Please help with my confusion!
Thanks!
Dorinda
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Post by Mark on Oct 18, 2006 16:25:21 GMT -8
The only way to properly spell "Yeshua" is yod-sheen-aiyn-vav. Any use of letters from another language is a phonetic spelling. The rules of phonetics change drastically depending upon the phobetic style you might be using (Latin, German or French). To add to the complexity, Yeshua is actually a shortened version of Yehoshua (there are more complicated pronunciations as well)- sort of like "Rob" is short for "Robert". Yeshua was likely chosen to make clear distinction between Yeshua and the Old Testament Joshua (same name).
If it is any consolation, my name is "Mark". But I have a German friend who writes my name M-a-r-c. No big deal. I doubt our Messiah is as concerned. There are many ways that you can give particular honor to the name of Yeshua as Messiah without worrying about the spelling. Some put in dashes where the vowels would be (Y-sh--), some circle or underline His name any time it is written, some always include His title "Messiah" when speaking or writing His name, some include an icon like the trinity symbol or the ikthus to bring attention to His name as standing out on the page.
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Post by R' Y'hoshua Moshe on Oct 18, 2006 22:29:03 GMT -8
In my estimation the only real evidence we have for Messiah's name is the Hebrew spelling that Mark mentioned which transliterated is spelled, "Yeshua". It is literally the masculine form of the Hebrew word for salvation. Fitting isn't it? All the other names you see on the web such as Yeshua, Yeshua, and the many others out there are simply - made up - to accommodate one's particular theological bent. The closest deviation from the name "Yeshua" with any Biblical evidence would be "Yehoshua". People have very creative explanations trying to validate why they come up with these other names, which are not once found in scripture or in Hebrew. In their explanations they take scripture out of context in an attempt to support whatever pet theology they are nursing. At least that is how I see it.
Shalom b'Yeshua HaMashiach,
Reuel
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Post by Nachshon on Oct 19, 2006 5:25:01 GMT -8
I'm fairly certain I will disagree with the opinions around here. If we look through the Post-Messiah Writings (I'll call them the Moshian Writings) we see that Joshua was referred to as Yeshua (In the Aramaic) or Iesus (In the Greek). Why? Because Yeshua is the Aramaic form of Yahoshua. By the same virtue, it could easily be argued that the Messiah's actual name was Yahoshua. Why do I argue this? Because it says that Father would put His Name in the Messiah. Yeshua, yood shin waw ayin hey, does not contain the Name. However, Yahoshua (Yeshua), yood hey waw shin waw ayin hey, does contain the Name, yood hey waw hey, in order, and, if I am correct, even with all of the right vowel sounds attached to the letters.
Now, I have another reason for believing this. There are two major characters in the TaNaKH named "Joshua" or Yeshua. The first is Joshua the son of Nun, Moshe's protege, the conquerer of the land. The other is found mainly in the book of Zecheriah, but also in Nehemiah and a couple of other books. He was the High Priest who worked with Zerubabel to rebuild the Temple. If we examine these two characters, we clearly see the two comings of the Messiah. The High Priest (aka Suffering Servant), and the Conquering King. They were not named Yeshua, but Yeshua.
That is my opinion. Take it or leave it.
However, there is absolutely no etymological reason to pronounce Messiah's name "Yahshuah." That's basically "SFA" (Snatched From Air).
Shalom,
Nachshon
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Post by R' Y'hoshua Moshe on Oct 21, 2006 0:54:48 GMT -8
The scripture never actualy says that the "yod and hey" would be the first two letters in Messiah's name. When it speaks of The Father's name in him, it is a Hebrew idiom for authority. In this light the Father's name is to be in all of His sons. But, it does not mean that all of our names have to start with "Yah". For example the name "Levi" means "joined". But, we don't suppose to say "Yahlevi" meaning "Yah Joined". Furthermore, "Yah" is not the full name of our Heavenly Father...it is only half of it. So, either you interpret it literally or you see it for the Hebrew idiom that it is. Every letter in the Hebrew alphabet is important. It is either His name reflected in the Hebrew letters "yod, hey, vav, hey" or it is not His full name. And, if The Father is known sometimes by a shortened name such as "Yah", is it any great wonder that Messiah would be known as a shortened name such as "Yeshua", shortened from "Yehoshua"? But, I believe "Yeshua" is most accurate as it is all we have hard evidence for and it simply reflects the Hebrew word for "salvation"...that is what He is! Furthermore, we know from scripture many times when a name is given it is given with a description of the name that also serves as the definition of the given name. For example, we know that "Levi" is not "Yahlevi" because of the definition given below... "She conceived again, and bare a son. Said, "Now this time will my husband be joined to me, because I have borne him three sons." Therefore was his name called Levi." - Gen 29:34 Notice how there is no mention of G'd or "Yah" in the above passage which would suggest an actual spelling of "YahLevi" or "Leviyah" or "Leviyahu". There is another important example of a name given in scripture where it is followed by the definition which reinforces the actual name that was given. We find this in Mattityahu (Mat.) 1:21... "She shall bring forth a son. You shall call his name Yeshua, for it is he who shall save his people from their sins." Again, there is no mention of "G'd" or "Yah" in the above passage suggesting an actual spelling of "Yahoshua", "Yehoshua", or "Yeshua". The word used to reinforce the name given to this male child is "yeshua" which is literally the masculine form of the word for "salvation". Just my two cents  Shalom, Reuel |
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Post by Nachshon on Oct 21, 2006 11:44:56 GMT -8
I have to disagree with your statement that there is no hard evidence for anything other than Yeshua. Check out Luke 3:29, Acts 7:45, and Hebrews 4:8.
My argument for Yeshua is not in that it contains "Yah" at the beginning, but in that it contains the entire Name, yood-hey-waw-hey, in order, with the proper vowel-sounds (at least according to my estimation.)
Shalom,
David
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Post by ninjaaron on Oct 10, 2009 3:58:33 GMT -8
I don't know how anyone could possibly know that. In Greek, he's called Ιησυος, Iesuos (also used for the name of Joshua in Greek), in the Talmud, he's called ישו, 'Yeshu' Which I'm told is an acronym for "May his name be cursed," which makes sense. Orthodox Jews still refer to him as such in Modern Hebrew. In the Aramaic versions of the Scripture, he is called ישוע, Yeshua'. He may have had the same name as Joshua ('The Lord Saves'), or his name may simply have been the word "Salvation," Yeshua'. Nobody actually said he was named after Joshua in the Bible, but it's likely as not. In Modern Hebrew, believers refer to him buy the same name as Aramaic, Yeshua'. But who cares? When I speak English, German, or Danish, I call him Jesus. When I speak Hebrew I call him Yeshua', and when I speak Arabic, I call him Issua' (as opposed to Issa, in the Koran). The first Christians almost always refered to him in their native languages, and I see no reason why we shouldn't do the same. As you mentioned, the Messianic movement is a way of life, not a set of rules concerning the correct pronunciation of certain proper names (though it often appears to be reduced to that, these days). But, if you still want to be precise Hebrew/Aramaic, here is the low down: the vav comes before the 'ayin, and there is no he on the end. The 'a' sound we hear is called Patach furtive. It's a very brief sound that is forced in by the consonate 'ayin. Also, if you really want to pronounce it like they did back then, there is a deep throated, voiced guttural sound at the end of the word, also found in Arabic and Modern Aramaic, but has disappeared from Hebrew except in the Yemeni dialect (for an explanation of it's pronunciation with sound sample: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voiced_pharyngeal_fricative). The 'e' is a long e like in Spanish, and the accent is on the 'shu'. Phonetically, it's yē-SHUaʕ. Yeshua was his causual name, which i find more relatable as seeing Yeshua as a normal guy who did great things. Yeah, I know a lot of normal guys named Yeshua.  |
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Post by alon on Mar 8, 2013 17:10:21 GMT -8
... But over all... He knows who we are referring too. But at the same time.. I think it is very important to know how to spell his name and speak it correctly. Shalom! I agree. We try to get it right the best we can out of respect. However, when all is said and done, He knows who we are referring to and our heart attitude when we do it by whatever name we use. I go with what Rabbi Reuel has said here, "Yeshua" is the proper transliterated spelling. I was taught pronunciation is between a "yah" and "yay," but closer to the "yay." Accent on the second syllable. "YaySHUah" But when you say it it's hard to really discern the "yay" anyhow. My $0.02. Dan C |
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Post by yiska on Mar 8, 2013 17:21:59 GMT -8
me being deaf and can hear some... I was told to say it like yee shoe wah??? but spell it Yeshua. like YHWH YHWH.  |
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Post by alon on Mar 8, 2013 21:03:47 GMT -8
me being deaf and can hear some... I was told to say it like yee shoe wah??? but spell it Yeshua. like YHWH YHWH. Close enough for me. Like I said, if you say it fast enough, even in normal speech, it will be hard for anyone to hear whether you are saying "yee" or "yay." Except maybe God; but He hears your heart more than your transliterated pronunciation anyway. Dan C |
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Post by yiska on Mar 9, 2013 7:03:38 GMT -8
Thanks Alon..... that was very encouraging. I need someone to tell me that, although people have said something similar to that but still, G-d does hear us. I know that he knows that he knows that I know.... are you following that? meh, me neither. I'll get to the point, he knows we are trying. That is all that matters! |
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Post by R' Y'hoshua Moshe on Mar 20, 2013 21:57:02 GMT -8
B"H I agree with Alon, the emphasis should go on the second syllable, as that is were the cantillation mark is placed in the Masoretic text, and it should be pronounced "Yei-SHU-a". In the Hebrew Masoretic text it is spelled in the following manner; "yod" - making the "Y" sound (with the vowel "tzerei" underneath - making the "ei" sound"), "shin" - making the "sh" sound (with a "shuruk" following - making the "u / oo" sound), and the last letter is an "ayin" - making no sound (with a "patach" underneath making the "a" sound, as in "f ather"). This is exactly how it is spelled all throughout the TeNaKh. Also, something I didn't get a chance to address from several of the past posts was the statement that several people in this thread made stating that "Yeshua" was the Aramaic spelling and not the Hebrew pronunciation, as they said "Yehoshua" would be the true Hebrew pronunciation. But, this is seen to be completely false as we read the TeNaKh in Hebrew...for the spelling "Yeshua" is used around thirty times throughout the Hebrew TeNaKh as a name for a Jewish/Hebrew male. In English versions of the Bible it is spelled "Jeshua". But, please note that "Jeshua" is a different name than "Joshua". For someone to say that "Yeshua" is just the Aramaic version of the Hebrew, and that it is not really his name in Hebrew...means that such a one is not actually reading the TeNaKh in Hebrew....  The following are just a few references in the TeNaKh were the Hebrew is "Yeshua". 1Ch 24:11, 2Ch 31:15, Ezr. 2:2,2:36, 3:2, 4:3, 5:2, 8:33, Neh 3:19, 7:7, 8:7, 9:4, 10:9, 11:26, 12:8, ect...) Although in the past I generally accepted that "Yeshua" was a shortened version of "Yehoshua"...the above passages show that the name "Yeshua" was a stand-alone name and is not just a nickname or short for another name. Granted, the name "Yehoshua" (Joshua) is related to the name "Yeshua", but Jewish parents often named their sons "Yeshua" as their complete first name. As I mentioned in earlier posts, the scriptural evidence that we have is clearly found in the Apostolic writings that the correct name is "Yeshua". Throughout scripture when a child is born, and they are given a name, often a literal meaning and translation is also given of the name. This was also done in the case of Messiah Yeshua. Mattityahu (Matthew) 1:21 states, “She will give birth to a son, and you are to name him Yeshua, because he will save his people from their sins." The Hebrew name “Yeshua” is the masculine form of the Hebrew verb "to save" in the imperfect (future) tense, and literally means what the passage says...“he will save”. It is clear from the text that this is indeed what Adonai named Him, in the Hebrew language. It has a specific and profound meaning, given by HaShem Himself. Indeed, it is prophetic...for it means, "He shall save"...Because it has a specific intended meaning...the name stands on its own, for if you change the name, you change its intended meaning. And, who are we to argue with HaShem  Shalom b'Yeshua Meshichenu! R' Reuel |
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Post by yiska on Mar 21, 2013 7:04:25 GMT -8
Todah Raba R'Reuel. That was very clear. I often wonder why people of English speaking people call him J-sus and yet they know his Hebrew name. I hear over and over again, I know he has a Hebrew name but I call him J-sus. if they know his Hebrew name is Yeshua then way call him J-sus??? beats me! |
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Post by alon on Mar 21, 2013 10:57:38 GMT -8
Todah Raba R'Reuel. That was very clear. I often wonder why people of English speaking people call him J-sus and yet they know his Hebrew name. I hear over and over again, I know he has a Hebrew name but I call him J-sus. if they know his Hebrew name is Yeshua then way call him J-sus??? beats me![img src=" ![]() .gif" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">www.synagoguechm.com/images/ .gif"] [/img][/quote] Because from Constantine until well after the Reformation, and still today, there has been a concerted effort to do away with any "taint" of Judaism in the "New Testament" and to discredit the "Old." So Yeshua had to be given a Greco/Roman name. "Iesu" is the Greek transliteration of Yeshua, and the "s" suffix is the masculine singular form. In Latin the "I" was replaced by a "J", an in English that gives us "Jesus". Still a Holy name, but I have to think He might have shed a tear over the reasoning behind its usage. Dan C |
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Post by yiska on Mar 21, 2013 11:14:35 GMT -8
Todah Raba R'Reuel. That was very clear. I often wonder why people of English speaking people call him J-sus and yet they know his Hebrew name. I hear over and over again, I know he has a Hebrew name but I call him J-sus. if they know his Hebrew name is Yeshua then way call him J-sus??? beats me![img src=" ![]() ![]() .gif" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">www.synagoguechm.com/images/.gif"] [/img][/img][/quote] Because from Constantine until well after the Reformation, and still today, there has been a concerted effort to do away with any "taint" of Judaism in the "New Testament" and to discredit the "Old." So Yeshua had to be given a Greco/Roman name. "Iesu" is the Greek transliteration of Yeshua, and the "s" suffix is the masculine singular form. In Latin the "I" was replaced by a "J", an in English that gives us "Jesus". Still a Holy name, but I have to think He might have shed a tear over the reasoning behind its usage. Dan C[/quote] thanks for your input, although I know why they call him that J-sus, I just don't understand why call him that IF THEY KNOW HIS NAME IS YESHUA! ?? That is my question, I know why, I just don't understand the fully extent of if they know... then why continue to call him a name that wasn't given to him at birth. I am not dissing the Christians, as I used to be one for over 30 years.... I think they are afraid they maybe wrong in calling him his true name since they want to believe in their pastor more so than the Messianic movements that live the  life ...? Am I wrong? or is it more of living the NT and think its okay to change his name because the OT is done with? Makes no sense to me. |
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- there are 70 faces to 
The following are just a few references in the TeNaKh were the Hebrew is "Yeshua". 1Ch 24:11, 2Ch 31:15, Ezr. 2:2,2:36, 3:2, 4:3, 5:2, 8:33, Neh 3:19, 7:7, 8:7, 9:4, 10:9, 11:26, 12:8, ect...)
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