Who/What is Babylon??

[Seeker2]

After reading far too many internet articles about prophecy, I have begun to form an opinion about Babylon as mentioned in Revelation. Most of the articles are written from a distinctly christian point of view(including the concept of "the rapture" which I do not abide with), but some hold the point of view that America is actually the Babylon mentioned. What say you? ;D

[Blake]

Well, in its early Christian use its almost certainly an epithet for the Roman Empire and namely Rome itself.

"The church that is at Babylon, elected together with you, saluteth you; and so doth Marcus my son." -First Peter Chapter Five, Verse Thirteen

Seeing that at the time this letter was written, no substantial Christian community resided in Babylon it's almost certainly a reference to the community in Rome. Seeing that the Apocalypse was written in this era John the Revelator's use also most likely is a reference to Rome since this must have been a common epithet among Christendom at the time.

The Christians, drawing a paralell with their oppression by the Romans and the oppression of Ancient Israelites with Babylon the entity referred to as Babylon must've been oppressing them at the time thse things were written. Seeing tha the United States was not established until much later I fail to see the connection.

There are those, who correlate the Lamb-like beast who came out of the wilderness (opposed to the cultural melting pot of many nations, peoples, and toungues i.e the sea) is America. I have no opinion however.

[Nachshon]

Blake, it is accepted in Eastern Christianity, though, that Peter was, in actuality, at Bavel, not Rome.

[Chizuk Emunah]

I have also heard the interpretation equating Babylon with Rome.

[Blake]

The Eastern Church has the problem of substantiating the claim that a significant community existed in Babylon, which it did not according to history.

[Blake]

Also, there is still the problem that literal Babylon was no more than a city and lacked the ability to oppress the Christians, something that their "Babylon" most certainly did.

See the Apocalypse.

[Vaneide]

Shalom, everyone

Have a look on this link about Babylon:

www.giveshare.org/library/2babylons/index.html

Vaneide.

[Seeker2]

I have always thought too that Babylon was Rome and then the Roman Church which had embraced the pagan ways from the nation around it. I thought that was the end of it. That is until I began to see our "christian nation" in a new light! Don't we also profess (as the Roman Church did) to be rightous, to be following G-d's ways, to be a light to the world? But then how is it that we abort so many, let child molesters go free for nothing, and subject our children and the rest of the world to unbelievable filth in media? I noticed that Revelation 17-19:2 it talks about Babylon and her destruction, and in chapter 19:7 about the coming of Yeshua!(kinda close for comfort!). I wonder....if we are living in the last days (which I beleve we are!) then Babylon MUST exsist, and if so, WHO/What is it??? Could it be that our "christian nation" is not really the real bride???(We meet alot of the criteria for the harlot, such as unbelevable wealth and luxury. What other country have so many merchants become wealthy by??)

[Nachshon]

blake said:

The Eastern Church has the problem of substantiating the claim that a significant community existed in Babylon, which it did not according to history.

But, as usual, the Catholic church has no substantiation of their claim other than their own "historians."
I also do not see where Peter claims that a "substantial" community existed. However, there is significant documentation of a Persian church not long after the period of Peter's writing.
I also did not claim that this applied to the Babylon of Revelation. Only you were claiming that.

Shalom,
Nachshon

[Dogface Of Judah]

Short and sweet;

Babylon of Rev 17= Vatican/Rome

Babylon of Rev 18= United States

I can give reasons if need be.

Not much time left.

Ed

[Chizuk Emunah]

Could it be that our "christian nation" is not really the real bride???

Seeker, I'm going to tell you right now that the Christians are not the bride of the Mashiach. This is Replacement Theology at its worst. The one and only bride of the Mashiach are his people Yisrael & those who have joined themselves to Yisrael.

[Firestorm]

;D "Christian", it seems, can mean anything from born again believer to the Metropolitan Gay "church" (ECCH!) The term has become vague to the point of uselessness.
Are we in the end times? People have been telling me for over 30 years that the end is right 'round the corner. Seems like a rather big corner. At the rate the average age of RC priests is increasing, with so few young priests replacing them, who knows if the Catholic church will even still exist when Yeshua returns?
Don't get me wrong, I think some significant historical/prophetic things are happening I just believe they'll happen in God's good time rather than when we'd like them to. In the meantime I'm trying to cling to the Lord as much as I can, be as good a testimony for my faith as I can, love my neighbour as much as I can and have my spiritual bags packed and ready to go just in case.

[Seeker2]

I did not mean to give the impression that I think that the church is the bride and replaced Isreal (if I thought that I would not be a member of this forum!). But I didnt know until recently that the US Could BE Babylon...I thought it was the Roman church only, but now since I no longer practice what is called christianity, I see things a bit differently. I dont know much about christian prophecy since I tuned it out, not buying the concept of the secret rapture of the church. I would like to also know....where is Hitler and the Inquision if any one know??? I dont know how they could possibly be ignored by the word as Isreal was almost wiped out by both.

[Chizuk Emunah]

You didn't give that impression, I apologize if I can across harshly. I just wanted to make it clear for everyone here that the "church" is not Israel and therefore not the bride of Mashiach.
I wouldn't be so quick to equate the US with Babylon. I think many christian leaders do this because they want to draw attention away from the stronger link between the Roman Catholic Church and "Babylon."

As for your other questions about the Inquistion and the Shoah, I could post a long and detailed response, but this is probably not the appropriate thread. You can go ahead and start new threads if you'd like.

[Golfnerd]

dogfaceofjudah said:

Short and sweet;

Babylon of Rev 17= Vatican/Rome

Babylon of Rev 18= United States

I can give reasons if need be.

Not much time left.

Ed

I for one would like to hear your explainations regarding this.

Bring it.