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Post by R' Y'hoshua Moshe on Mar 7, 2007 17:46:32 GMT -8
Shalom Marc,
I think you are going in the right direction and I don’t believe you have violated any of the forum rules. Although, I do think we all need to be careful not to get into a discussion that already has a thread dedicated to it. We already have a thread dedicated to Yeshua being Elohim in the flesh. I understand that these subjects are very close, so let us all try our best to stay focused. Correct me if I am wrong, but I believe the subject is what the difference is between the views of modern Rabbinic Judaism and the majority of Messianic Judaism when it comes to the idea of Elohim manifesting himself in bodily form.
Pioneer,
Please refrain from personal insults as seen above. The above is also your opinion. These type of comments that we have seen before by you on the forum in the past are unacceptable here. Not too many more warnings will be given. Thank you in advance for your cooperation.
All too many have taken the above passage completely out of context to prove their theologies. We should be careful about taking a passage out of context and making it our proof text. Many get themselves into trouble this way. Does not the scripture also say that Adonai is a “man of war”?...
“YHVH is a man of war. YHVH is his name.” – Shemot (Exo.) 15:3
And yes, the above passage does use the Hebrew word “ish”, meaning “man”. Interpreting scripture through the whole of scripture is the ideal way to understand the word of Elohim. The subject is that Adonai does not lie like a common man (not all men lie). The subject of the scripture in question is not that Elohim has –not- manifested Himself as a man. When Adonai revealed himself to Yisrael on the mount it describes Himself as having “feet”. How is this possible if he does not have a manifested body?
What about Moshe and Ya’akov? Again, I think we need to read scripture in context with other scripture when it comes to understanding the statement that man cannot see Elohim without falling dead. It is quite possible that the physical manifestation that communicated with these holy men of Adonai was Yeshua HaMashiach, the direct representative of Adonai. This very well could be the reason why they could actually see Elohim without dying. They saw the part of Himself that He chose to manifest, but not the part that would cause their death. Scripture says that Moshe spoke face to face with Adonai. Is this a contradiction in scripture? I think not.
Exactly, because this means “face of Elohim”. Note, how it doesn’t say that it was named, “P’niy malak”.
I also believe that many times that we see the “Angel Of YHVH” in the scriptures that it does indeed refer to the messenger of Adonai…and Yeshua The Messiah without any doubt is the ultimate Messenger of Adonai…the very word of Elohim Himself through which indeed Adonai created everything. Is not the Word of our Elohim a vehicle that delivers the message of YHVH Himself? And, if so, there is no wonder that Yeshua HaMashiach, The Word of Elohim is also a type of "Malak / Angel". The argument that we see some put forth saying that the Greek false gods are noted as manifesting themselves in flesh is not the best argument to discredit our convictions. As many of also know, HaSatan is the great conterfeiter and often tries to mimick what Adonai is doing, but with perversion.
The idea that scripture does not support Elohim revealing Himself in bodily form is not one that scripture actually supports. All throughout scripture we see Adonai being described with attributes of man… face, feet, ect. People should not be so surprised when we use these passages to support the idea that sometimes Adonai chooses to reveal Himself in the flesh. In fact, the talmidim (disciples) of Yeshua also understood this as they describe the very Word of Elohim becoming flesh in their writings. For it is not so much that we are trying to make Elohim into a man inasmuch as Elohim already made man in HIS image.
Shalom chaverim,
Reuel
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Pioneer
Full Member
Shema and Shemar
Posts: 210
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Post by Pioneer on Mar 7, 2007 21:35:15 GMT -8
Pioneer, Doesn't scripture say something else? Let's go to scripture to see what it says. Scripture says The Word ; Was in the beginning ,With G-d ,Was G-d, All things made by ‘Him’, Became flesh and dwelt among us, Only begotten Again what does Proverbs 8:22-36 say? 22 “ The LORD possessed me at the beginning of His way,
Before His works of old.
23 I have been established from everlasting,
From the beginning, before there was ever an earth.
24 When there were no depths I was brought forth,
When there were no fountains abounding with water.
25 Before the mountains were settled,
Before the hills, I was brought forth;
26 While as yet He had not made the earth or the fields,
Or the primal dust of the world.
27 When He prepared the heavens, I was there,
When He drew a circle on the face of the deep,
28 When He established the clouds above,
When He strengthened the fountains of the deep,
29 When He assigned to the sea its limit,
So that the waters would not transgress His command,
When He marked out the foundations of the earth,
30 Then I was beside Him as a master craftsman;
And I was daily His delight,
Rejoicing always before Him,
31 Rejoicing in His inhabited world,
And my delight was with the sons of men.
32 “ Now therefore, listen to me, my children,
For blessed are those who keep my ways.
33 Hear instruction and be wise,
And do not disdain it.
34 Blessed is the man who listens to me,
Watching daily at my gates,
Waiting at the posts of my doors.
35 For whoever finds me finds life,
And obtains favor from the LORD;
36 But he who sins against me wrongs his own soul;
All those who hate me love death.”Pioneer let me ask: Who is it that has been established from everlasting, From the beginning, before there was ever an earth?(Verse 23) Who was there when He prepared the heavens and everything else?(verse 27) Who was beside Him as a master craftsman?(verse 30) Did Yochanan say that this sent one was the voice/word of G-d? 1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was madeThe Word was with G-d and is G-d. And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.The Word that was with G-d and is G-d became flesh. Definately 'jives' with Proverbs 8. Marc Ah yes! Proverbs 8! Very good one. Wisdom invites all to learn from her. It is superior to all earthly riches.  is the source of the truest success. The is generous to those who love it. The perceeded everything; it is the blueprint of creation. Be wise: follow the and its teachings. Sidebars of Tanach. Yes the is the Word of God. It was sent into the world to Moshe, he wrote it down, It was sent into the world again to Beit Leckam born of a woman the living /word of God. When he/Yeshua was resurrected he became eternal just like the Father, sits at the right hand of the Father. Since my testamony is not accepted here, I will follow Yeshua's instructions. Shalom |
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Post by Yitzchak on Mar 7, 2007 22:15:28 GMT -8
In the beginning the "Word" is not refered as being "Anointed." But the "Word" out of the so called "Mouth of God" by the so called "Mind of God"/ brought everything into being out of nothing. When the "Word of the Lord" is mentioned in it is as the "Mind of God" or "Wisdom" imparted to man. Please help me find the "Anointed", other than a rock, before Sanai! Actually Pioneer, your first couple of lines are right on track. However, where you head in the wrong direction is not fully evaluating what some Judaic literature actually teaches about this. Specifically Philo and Ben Sira. You will learn that the concept of G-d's Word, G-d's Mouth, and G-d's Wisdom cannot be separated from G-d, for they are G-d. I don't have time now, and I am not finished with a presentation I am writing on the Wisdom of G-d as it relates to Yeshua's deity. It will be starting from the Hebraic perspective. Shalom, Yitzchak |
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Post by Yitzchak on Mar 7, 2007 22:22:30 GMT -8
Ah yes! Proverbs 8! Very good one. Wisdom invites all to learn from her. It is superior to all earthly riches. is the source of the truest success. The is generous to those who love it. The perceeded everything; it is the blueprint of creation. Be wise: follow the and its teachings. Sidebars of Tanach. Yes the is the Word of God. It was sent into the world to Moshe, he wrote it down, It was sent into the world again to Beit Leckam born of a woman the living /word of God. When he/Yeshua was resurrected he became eternal just like the Father, sits at the right hand of the Father. Since my testamony is not accepted here, I will follow Yeshua's instructions. Shalom When one does a study on Proverbs 8 as it relates to Wisdom, and then compares it to , and further to Yeshua they are actually proving the deity of Yeshua. How you say? Wisdom self praises in many of these verses, and we all know that there is only one who can self praise in the Scriptures. Shalom, Yitzchak |
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Post by Mpossoff on Mar 8, 2007 0:22:05 GMT -8
Yes Reuel that is the subject.
Yes all through out scripture, scripture supports the fact that Adonai has been seen, and has a human form(face, feet, etc).
Since this subject is between the views of modern Rabbinic Judaism and the majority of Messianic Judaism...
Why does Rabbinic Judaism 'skip' over the fact that scripture supports the fact that Adonai has been seen, and has a human form(face, feet, etc)?
Now granted the human form that scripture supports isn't completely revealed specifically in Genesis, but the fact is scripture supports the fact that Adonai has been seen, and has a human form(face, feet, etc).
In the Brit Hadashah it's evident.
Yochanan didn't just write and confirm this 'out of the blue'. No doubt Yochanan had an understanding if you will which obviously was from the TaNaK.
Bereshis (in the Beginning) was the Dvar Hashem , and the Dvar Hashem was agav (along with) Hashem [MISHLE 8:30; 30:4], and the Dvar Hashem was nothing less, by nature, than Elohim! [Psa 56:11(10); Yn 17:5; Rev. 19:13]
I always believed in Yeshua's deity even when I was a 'Christian'.
It wasn't until Adonai led me to Messianic Judaism that this belief became, how can I say it?, not a belief per say but more of a 'knowing'. Don't get me wrong I'm far from knowing and I get new understanding almost everyday.
I was a believer with no understanding. Now I'm a believer with a little bit more understanding.
The difference in study for me between Messianic Judaism and 'Christianity' to be honest you can't compare.
The way I've been studying with help and guidance of course is much more rich and more rigorous. To dig into the TaNaK to discover Messiah in the TaNaK is awesome!!!!!
To discover that from the 'beginning' it's all about our Messiah. From the VERY beginning to the end of the book. He is the all important One in all things. It's like 'This makes too much sense!'
I would have loved to have been with the Bereans and to have studied the scriptures with them.
Seems to be that Rabbinical Judaism would call me a 'Christian' with that statement.
Such a fine line.
According to scripture the Word that became flesh has always been eternal and always has sat at the right hand of the Father.. Proverbs 8:23 I have been established from everlasting, From the beginning, before there was ever an earth.
Marc
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Post by Mpossoff on Mar 9, 2007 14:42:18 GMT -8
Hi all, Was talking to the Rabbi at a congregation that I'll be assembling at. I believe that the conversation I had has to do with Rabbinical and Messianic Judaism. I asked him how do I observe the Sabbath? Very interesting and enlightening way of explaining it. He told it like a story... YHWH told me I do not keep it right when I asked him. I said, "What should I change"? He said--Nothing. I didn't understand so He responded, "I love how you love it." Then I understood that it is more important to love His commandments than to keep them exactly right. We should draw near Him with our hearts rather than with our lips or with our intellect. That is what He loves. Which brought us into conversation about what the says about keeping the Sabbath. Not much Sabbath 'commandments'. He said to at least make the Sabbath 'holy'. That it's a special and Holy day. He said he used to take his sons to the zoo or the park or something special on the Sabbath. Along with assembling of course and some study. The way he explained it, based on scripture makes the Sabbath easy. Not alot of do's and do nots like in Oral . You can't drive a car because it's starting a fire. Paul makes it very clear in the Brit Hadesha don't let anyone judge you on how you keep His commandments. Colossians 2:14-2314 having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us, which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross.
15 Having disarmed principalities and powers, He made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them in it.
16 So let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival or a new moon or sabbaths,
17 which are a shadow of things to come, but the substance is of Christ.
18 Let no one cheat you of your reward, taking delight in false humility and worship of angels, intruding into those things which he has not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind,
19 and not holding fast to the Head, from whom all the body, nourished and knit together by joints and ligaments, grows with the increase that is from God.
20 Therefore,if you died with Christ from the basic principles of the world, why, as though living in the world, do you subject yourselves to regulations—
21 “Do not touch, do not taste, do not handle,”
22 which all concern things which perish with the using—according to the commandments and doctrines of men?
23 These things indeed have an appearance of wisdom in self-imposed religion, false humility, and neglect of the body, but are of no value against the indulgence of the flesh.
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Post by Mark on Mar 10, 2007 7:02:35 GMT -8
Hey Marc, I agree with the fundamental position of your rabbi; but I don't agree with the passage of Scripture that you've chosen to support it. Take a look at the passage again and answer these questions: Is (specifically Sabbath observance) against us? Adonai said that has been given to us for our good. Can we define as "the commandments and doctrines of men"? Could it be that Paul is not talking about the same writings (ordinances) as we might have presumed? The Greek word which has been translated "ordinances" in Colossians 2:14 is the word "dogma". It means "law" yet it is never used in the Brit Hadashah nor the Septuigent of the Tanakh to represent . is always "nomos". Dogma conisistently points to civic ordinances or traditional religious positions that are not . It is common for the Church to misinterpret "the thems" as the Jews (therefore Jewish Law as being that Law which is contrary). Yet, notice that this letter is not a letter to a Church within the borders of Israel. These were believers who lived in Colosse. If you look at Acts 16:20, in Macedonai (just north of Colosse, there was a distinct prejudice against Jewish practice. It is more probable that the "judgment" that the Colossian believers were experiencing was not from the Jewish side; but from the gentiles. They were not being judged because they abandoned Sabbath but because they kept it. I would suggest that a better text for your position is Acts 15:19-21. Grow in your knowledge of ; but don't worry about not having it all together. Adonai will lead you by His Spirit in the direction you should go- not all at once; but He will convict you and steer you in accordance with His Word. |
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Post by Mpossoff on Mar 10, 2007 8:04:43 GMT -8
Hi Mark, Maybe the passage I chose isn't the best scripture to support it. I don't believe the passage I posted is saying that is against us. What I do believe the passage is about is that man's ordinances is against us and not to let others judge or even try to tell you what is the right way to observe the Sabbath as an example. Couldn't this also be applied to all? Example: Pertaining to the Sabbath. You and I were on the internet on the Sabbath. Others might say 'Oh no you can't go on the internet on the Sabbath, you broke the Sabbath'. Although Paul is writing specifically to believers who lived in Colosse because most likely 'Jews' were telling them that they weren't doing things right.... Couldn't we also apply it to us? It's my understanding that one of Yeshua's 'work'(wrong word but I hope you realize what I'm trying to get to) was to 'knock that down'. To 'knock down' Oral traditions that weren't 'biblical' in the first place. Another example: Alot of Jews said Gentiles had to go through a ritual conversion. You know they said 'We got rules'. But from my understanding that was really never the case in the TaNaK. That it was a man made ordinance. That being an Israelite was 'attaching' yourself to Israel... 'Entreat me not to leave you, or to turn back from following after you; gor wherever you go, I will go; snd wherever you lodge, I will lodge; your people shall be my people, snd your G-d, my G-d. Where you die, I will die, snd there will I be buried. HaShem do so to me, and more also, if anything but death parts you and me.”When they left Egypt it was a multitude. Probably mostly ethnic 'Jews' but there were some that left with them that weren't. From what I'm told there were as if they were 'Israelites'. Now that doesn't mean you could do what you want; eat what you want, worship who you want, etc. I truly believe this. This is what's it's all about. I'm beginning to understand what is meant that the 'letter kills'. Now that I'm gaining more understanding I 'feel free'. That I don't have to listen and be judged by the 'Oral Law'. That Adonai gave us His to judge ourselves. It's my understanding that they were being judged on how they kept it. That it wasn't in line with 'oral law/ordinance'? Any comments? Marc Hey Marc, I agree with the fundamental position of your rabbi; but I don't agree with the passage of Scripture that you've chosen to support it. Take a look at the passage again and answer these questions: Is (specifically Sabbath observance) against us? Adonai said that has been given to us for our good. Can we define as "the commandments and doctrines of men"? Could it be that Paul is not talking about the same writings (ordinances) as we might have presumed? The Greek word which has been translated "ordinances" in Colossians 2:14 is the word "dogma". It means "law" yet it is never used in the Brit Hadashah nor the Septuigent of the Tanakh to represent . is always "nomos". Dogma conisistently points to civic ordinances or traditional religious positions that are not . It is common for the Church to misinterpret "the thems" as the Jews (therefore Jewish Law as being that Law which is contrary). Yet, notice that this letter is not a letter to a Church within the borders of Israel. These were believers who lived in Colosse. If you look at Acts 16:20, in Macedonai (just north of Colosse, there was a distinct prejudice against Jewish practice. It is more probable that the "judgment" that the Colossian believers were experiencing was not from the Jewish side; but from the gentiles. They were not being judged because they abandoned Sabbath but because they kept it. I would suggest that a better text for your position is Acts 15:19-21. Grow in your knowledge of ; but don't worry about not having it all together. Adonai will lead you by His Spirit in the direction you should go- not all at once; but He will convict you and steer you in accordance with His Word. |
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Post by Mark on Mar 11, 2007 3:56:22 GMT -8
There's one thing that I've noticed about Jewish people, in general, is that they are pretty indfifferent to the religious practices of gentiles. If gentiles want to keep Sabbath, eat kosher, celebrate the feasts, that's cool. If they do it wrong, that's cool. Gentiles aren't Jews' Let them do whatever they want. It's inconsistent with the Jewish character (outside the Church) to try and sway the conduct of those who are not Jewish. Within the Church it's a very different scene. That's what Acts 15 is all about (as well as much of the contect of many of Paul's writings). Within the Church, there is a lot of "you're doing it all wrong." Yet, Messiah said, to do unto others as you would have them do unto you is the Law and the prophets in a nutshell. Paul told Titus to avoid foolish questions (heedless or ubsurd), geneologies, contentions, and strivings about the Law; fo rthey are unprofitable and vain. (Titus 3:9). If the end of the Law is love out of a pure heart (1st Timothy 1:5) then it is a misapplication to use it as a weapon against one another. We will all define observance differently. That doesn't mean that we're both right- it means that each of us has a different slant on perspective... we both see through the glass dimly (as Paul might put it). Our understanding of is obscured. Fortunately, we don't have to have it all together in order to enter into worship. He meets us where we are. As long as we are coming into it in obedience to the best that we know and not in arrogance (my way is good enough for God even if He said He wants something different). It is important to come at our obedience to the Scriptures with an attitude of grace- doing our best not to offend one another, ans especially not to offend Adonai our God. |
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Post by Mpossoff on Mar 11, 2007 6:12:20 GMT -8
Hi Mark, I like to call it 'freedom'. I believe that is what Paul is trying to express... having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us, which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross.I think Paul is trying to say that 'requirements', "you should do this and you should do that, etc." has been wiped out. The 'oral laws' per say. Marc There's one thing that I've noticed about Jewish people, in general, is that they are pretty indfifferent to the religious practices of gentiles. If gentiles want to keep Sabbath, eat kosher, celebrate the feasts, that's cool. If they do it wrong, that's cool. Gentiles aren't Jews' Let them do whatever they want. It's inconsistent with the Jewish character (outside the Church) to try and sway the conduct of those who are not Jewish. Within the Church it's a very different scene. That's what Acts 15 is all about (as well as much of the contect of many of Paul's writings). Within the Church, there is a lot of "you're doing it all wrong." Yet, Messiah said, to do unto others as you would have them do unto you is the Law and the prophets in a nutshell. Paul told Titus to avoid foolish questions (heedless or ubsurd), geneologies, contentions, and strivings about the Law; fo rthey are unprofitable and vain. (Titus 3:9). If the end of the Law is love out of a pure heart (1st Timothy 1:5) then it is a misapplication to use it as a weapon against one another. We will all define observance differently. That doesn't mean that we're both right- it means that each of us has a different slant on perspective... we both see through the glass dimly (as Paul might put it). Our understanding of is obscured. Fortunately, we don't have to have it all together in order to enter into worship. He meets us where we are. As long as we are coming into it in obedience to the best that we know and not in arrogance (my way is good enough for God even if He said He wants something different). It is important to come at our obedience to the Scriptures with an attitude of grace- doing our best not to offend one another, ans especially not to offend Adonai our God. |
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Post by Chizuk Emunah on Mar 11, 2007 14:39:15 GMT -8
Hi Mark, I like to call it 'freedom'. I believe that is what Paul is trying to express... having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us, which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross.I think Paul is trying to say that 'requirements', "you should do this and you should do that, etc." has been wiped out. The 'oral laws' per say. Marc And the "Church" has used that same argument to say that was done away with. I promise I will start up that thread soon on Ribi Y'hoshua. |
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Post by Mpossoff on Mar 11, 2007 23:22:01 GMT -8
Hi Natanel I agree. When I was in the 'Church' that's the way I was taught. What's amazing, praise Adonai, is that it doesn't say that the was done away with. What I think gets misinterpretated is that man's decrees, ordinances, dogma, etc has been done away with. The church misinterprets that to mean . That was one Yeshua's main 'battles' I believe. And that gets misinterpretated as well. Oral decrees versus G-d's Law. Marc Hi Mark, I like to call it 'freedom'. I believe that is what Paul is trying to express... having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us, which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross.I think Paul is trying to say that 'requirements', "you should do this and you should do that, etc." has been wiped out. The 'oral laws' per say. Marc And the "Church" has used that same argument to say that was done away with. I promise I will start up that thread soon on Ribi Y'hoshua. |
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Post by Mark on Mar 12, 2007 4:00:24 GMT -8
Marc, I guess what I'm struggling with in your post is the idea of being "done away with" since the ordinances of man never had effectual authority to begin with. We tend to look into history with the idea that the loudest ruled. This is most obvious when we look atthe history of religion: when you want to know about the history of "the Church", it is the history of the Catholic church that you will find most information regarding; but a deeper study will reveal that there were a whole lot more perspectives of theology floating around (else the Catholics would have had nobody to kill and incarcarate). It is true with Judaism. We shoudl be careful lumping it all into one pot- even regarding oral . Paul speaks in 2nd Thessalonians 2:15 of "traditions" that the Church should keep. The Greek word "paradosis" (para-dogma) is recognized as refring to what we now understand to be oral (elements that would later become part of the Talmud). |
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Post by Chizuk Emunah on Mar 12, 2007 6:00:43 GMT -8
Marc, I guess what I'm struggling with in your post is the idea of being "done away with" since the ordinances of man never had effectual authority to begin with. We tend to look into history with the idea that the loudest ruled. This is most obvious when we look atthe history of religion: when you want to know about the history of "the Church", it is the history of the Catholic church that you will find most information regarding; but a deeper study will reveal that there were a whole lot more perspectives of theology floating around (else the Catholics would have had nobody to kill and incarcarate). It is true with Judaism. We shoudl be careful lumping it all into one pot- even regarding oral . Paul speaks in 2nd Thessalonians 2:15 of "traditions" that the Church should keep. The Greek word "paradosis" (para-dogma) is recognized as refring to what we now understand to be oral (elements that would later become part of the Talmud). Well said Mark. I definitely agree that the traditions Paul is exhorting others to keep are the same as those found in the Talmud. After some research and struggling with this passage, I believe that Paul (or someone writing in his name, not uncommon back then) is referring to the "Book of Decrees." The Book of Decrees was the written compendium of Sadduccean halakha, their understanding of Oral . I will disagree on one point however. You said that the words of men never held any authority. If this were true, then we would never have seen Batei Din established, nor a Sanhedrin (see D'varim 17). And we can see that men have held this authority to decide matters of since Moshe from looking at the . Within the last couple of weeks, through reading the parashot, we see that the people of Israel would come to Moshe on a regular basis and he would answer their questions about and decide matters of halakha. One other note aside.... True freedom does not come from being "freed" from keeping - G-d forbid. But instead comes from being freed from our evil inclination, our yetzer ra. When we are freed from our yetzer ra, we are able to fully dedicate ourselves to avodah of HaShem. Shalom, Natanel |
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Post by Mpossoff on Mar 12, 2007 6:43:46 GMT -8
I'll have to do some more study but on this. I still believe that Paul might be referring to 'oral tradtion/law' in Colossians 2. I could be wrong. I'll agree and disagree. IMHO there is nothing wrong with halakha as long as 'it's in line with scripture'. For me Yeshua made it clear that the 'oral tradtions/laws' were not in line with His . They said He was a Sabbath breaker. But He went to scripture. Today some would call me a Sabbath breaker for driving my car to Shul. Is it because is because there are 'laws' that are man made per say to say that one is a Sabbath breaker for driving a car to Shul? Or is it based on scripture? I admitt I have made a bad point based on bad scripture referances but my point is comparing Rabbinical Judaism and Messianic Judaism. And yes I have been told by 'Rabbinical Rabbi's' that I don't 'do it right'. I'd like to know where they base that I'm not 'doing it right' on? I've been told that since I only keep ' Kosher' it's not really keeping Kosher. Marc |
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says that it is impossible for man to see Ein Sof and live!
