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Post by Questor on Dec 17, 2013 22:22:13 GMT -8
Someone may have said this already, but I do not see this issue clearly established in the entire Text. Even the earliest of early church bishops, etc. couldn't clearly define this concept. In a very simplistic way, if he is and I don't call him Hashem, of what sin am I guilty of? However, if he is not Hashem and I claim he is, I am guilty of idolatry. I choose to err on the side of caution here. I am not an Elokist (as some Chabbadnicks have been called who believe Rabbi Menachem Schnersson to be both Moshiach and Hashem - read the book "The Rebbe, the Mashiach and the Scandle of Orthodox Indifference"). It doesn't change what I do or how I live my life. Nothing would change either way, so why do we make such an issue of it when even the Bible doesn't? I think some of the confusion comes from all the years of false trinity doctrine. It makes it hard for people even "Christians" to understand where that leaves Yeshua. He never asked for prayer towards him but rather that it be directed to the Father. I believe G-D is Echad (one) I do think Yeshua was G-d in the flesh. He walked among us  |
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Post by alon on Dec 18, 2013 15:23:23 GMT -8
I think some of the confusion comes from all the years of false trinity doctrine. It makes it hard for people even "Christians" to understand where that leaves Yeshua. He never asked for prayer towards him but rather that it be directed to the Father. I believe G-D is Echad (one) I do think Yeshua was G-d in the flesh. He walked among us I've said this here before, but I was raised in the "church." Father was a Southern Baptist "hell-fire and brimstone" preacher. I sat under their Trinity doctrine, asked men with all kinds of degrees and letters in front and behind their names ... and no one ever could adequately explain the Trinity to me. I have some "doctrinally solid" mainstream books that try to define or explain it. All any of them could do was add to the confusion. But the first time I read the Sh'ma in Hebrew (transliterated, of course) and researched the word "echad," I understood! Not claiming I understand everything about God, mind you. But I understood how He could be at once three and "One!" Maybe it is all just too simple for a bunch of Doctorates to explain to a normal (well, almost ...  ) person. But honestly, I don't think they understand what they are trying to tell us either. ;D Dan (I know ...  ) C |
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Post by Questor on Dec 18, 2013 16:30:01 GMT -8
I am frequently puzzled by people who claim to know YHVH, but do not understand the simple idea of omnipresence. Since Adonai can be everywhere and anywhere, in whatsover semblence, appearance, Tabernacle (or lack of one), why do they not admit that He can do so?
Then there is the idea of the trinity in the Godhead, because three specific descriptions of G-d's actionable parts are mentioned. Well, I certainly testify to there being at least three different puposeful manifestations of Power in the Tanakh and Brit Chadashah, but they are not seperate gods.
My anti-missionary acquaintance will not even allow YHVH to have a form of any kind, but seems to think of YHVH as a sentient cloud of energy alone, or something like that. I do not deny that G-d might be in a form of living energy outside our dimension, as He is much bigger than His creation, but I do not want to be limiting YHVH in any way. Echad is a plural unity. Elohim denotes a plurality as well, does it not?
YHVH cannot be much in evidence within this universe as His full enormous, incalculable, powerful self...He stands outside of this time/space in His Creator self...but the parts of Himself...well, He can send them everywhere, and to each Believer, and does, for I know the Ruach haKodesh is always with me. I am also led to understand from my night-visions, that the Ruach haKodesh will be my companion/mentor/teacher in the Olam Ha-ba as well.
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Post by Questor on Dec 20, 2013 14:23:18 GMT -8
I think some of the confusion comes from all the years of false trinity doctrine. It makes it hard for people even "Christians" to understand where that leaves Yeshua. He never asked for prayer towards him but rather that it be directed to the Father. I believe G-D is Echad (one) I do think Yeshua was G-d in the flesh. He walked among us This is where I am gravitating in my thinking. While I am adamant Yeshua is eternally God, I was never sure about the "Trinity" doctrines while I was in mainstream Christianity. Most of them can't explain it to you either, and the ones that "can" get so twisted up I can't follow them. Frankly, asking someone for a definitive answer about how an infinite God can manifest Himself in three separate beings at the same time is like asking how He can exist without a beginning. "Well, uhhh, He just does!" But the Bible is clear that our Savior, our Moshiac is fully God. To believe less is to believe that man can save man, which is idolatrous. Dan C Agreed. To understand how YHVH, who exists outside of our time/space universe, can cause parthogenesis in Miryam, a descendant of David through Nathan, is simply to believe that YHVH, being the Creator of all, is able to do it. We humans can do it somewhat clumsily at this time in a test tube. YHVH just caused the Ruach haKodesh to work in Miryam to cause her to have Yeshua, whose Spirit is the Word, and Right Arm of YHVH. And obviously, the Ruach haKodesh, has been an extension of YHVH from outside our universe into our universe. But there is no seperateness in these functions of the YHVH...merely explanations of what He did and does for us. Christians have been taught they are three seperate gods within the godhead, which is idolatrous, yet most of them that have been infilled with the Ruach haKodesh cannot believe it, and mostly don't try to. Blessedly, there are even a few people teaching that we humans aren't meant to understand it. I see a seperation in function, in action, but not much else, except that the Yeshua part of YHVH has a glorified human body that He can assume at will, and easily walk through walls with, apport from place to place in, and so forth. Mostly I think of Yeshua sitting at the right hand of the Father is merely the re-incorporation of Yeshua back into YHVH, yet able to step away seperately from YHVH to return as Mashiach ben David. But again, this is still within YHVH, as it was when Yeshua was Word and Right arm of YHVH. YHVH, after all, can do anything. People tend to forget that. |
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- there are 70 faces to 
