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Post by Chizuk Emunah on May 1, 2005 8:23:23 GMT -8
The Hebraic Roots Version Bible uses a variety of Aramaic and Hebrew transcripts to translate the "New Testament." It was recently brought up that one of these sources, Shem Tob's Matthew, may have been the work of an anti-missionary.
Therefore, since the validity of the Shem Tob Matthew is in question, it would be beneficial to see how the HRV translates certain passages and contrast them with the Shem Tob Matthew.
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Post by R' Y'hoshua Moshe on May 1, 2005 9:10:17 GMT -8
Here are some comparisons we can take a look at in regards to the Shem Tob (Hebrew version of Matt.) against another version of the Bible and then we can take a look at how the HRV translation handles it. The following quotations are from an article which deals with the issue and handles most of the objectionable passages found in the Shem Tob version of Matt. I don't necessarily agree with all of their sentiments. But, I don't necessarily disagree either. I wouldn't normally post this much info. all at once. But, I am making an exception here. We can use this as a base for the discussion. Let us handle one passage at a time before we move onto the next passage in question. I also want to make it clear that I am not trying to disregard the HRV translation of the scriptures. All I am interested in is it's relation to the Shem Tob translation of which I have serious doubts. Here we go!.... Continued...
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Post by R' Y'hoshua Moshe on May 1, 2005 9:10:50 GMT -8
Continued...
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Post by R' Y'hoshua Moshe on May 1, 2005 9:11:08 GMT -8
Sorry about the length of this. But, it will give us all the information to chew on that is pertinent.
Shalom b'Yeshua,
Reuel
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Post by Rick on May 1, 2005 15:16:29 GMT -8
In the preface to the HRV, J.S. Trimm makes note that due to known Rabbinic corruptions He only used it "Sparingly" and primarily only for comparison where it is in agreement with DuTillet, Munster and Cinquarbres Mss.
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Post by Chizuk Emunah on May 1, 2005 16:01:57 GMT -8
And away we go!
Mattiyahu 1:1 (HRV) These are the generations of *Yeshua, the son of David, the son of Avaraham.
*There is a footnote here that states: "of Yeshua" in DuTillet & Shem Tob. The Aramaic Syriac, Pesh'tta, and Crawford have "Yeshua the Messiah."
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Post by R' Y'hoshua Moshe on May 2, 2005 19:39:11 GMT -8
Thank you for sharing this.
Hmmm...It is good that they placed the foot note. But, the fact that the Shem Tob leaves out "Messiah" and the HRV follows this example does not sit well with me. This would not be suprising to see in the Shem Tob because it was written by an anti-missionary. But, seeing it in the HRV does concern me as it seems to be taking away an important word in scripture that points to Yeshua as being Messiah in the beginning of the Gospel of Matt..
Shalom,
Reuel
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Post by Chizuk Emunah on May 7, 2005 12:31:13 GMT -8
Well, it is only one instance. Apart from that, I couldn't tell you why James Trimm followed the DuTillet and Shem Tob and not the other manuscripts. You would have to ask him. On to the next passage: Mattiyahu 1:18 And the birth of Yeshua the Messiah was this way: after his mother Miriam was betrothed to Yosef, before he came unto her, the Ruach HaKodesh found her pregnant. Interesting how the translation reads Yeshua the Messiah, but the information about the pregnancy could be interpreted in such a way as though it were almost by accident.
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Post by R' Y'hoshua Moshe on May 7, 2005 20:48:48 GMT -8
Actually, the Shem Tob leaves out Messiah....
Matthew 1:18 “The birth of Jesus was in this way, It came to pass when his mother was betrothed to Joseph, before he knew her, she was found pregnant by the Holy Spirit” - Shem Tob (Hebrew version of Matt.)
But, all other know versions inlcude Messiah as we see in the following version....
"Now the birth of Yeshua the Messiah was like this; for after his mother, Miriam, was engaged to Yosef, before they came together, she was found pregnant by the Holy Spirit."
Shalom achi,
Reuel
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Post by Chizuk Emunah on May 11, 2005 9:27:27 GMT -8
Right. I was actually referring to the HRV though.
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Post by R' Y'hoshua Moshe on May 11, 2005 16:59:34 GMT -8
Sorry about that, I misunderstood what you were saying. Shalom achi, Reuel
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Eli Yeshua
New Member
Torah, Nevi'im, Kethuvim
Posts: 23
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Post by Eli Yeshua on Jun 25, 2005 6:33:05 GMT -8
Can you guys keep this going? I don't have the HRV and am interested in seeing how beneficial it is and whether or not I should invest in a copy. This is terribly interesting.
Eli Yeshua
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Post by Chizuk Emunah on Jun 26, 2005 19:21:02 GMT -8
Okay, let me start putting things together. I've doubled up on my Yeshiva classes, so I've been really busy lately.
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Eli Yeshua
New Member
Torah, Nevi'im, Kethuvim
Posts: 23
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Post by Eli Yeshua on Jun 27, 2005 5:54:51 GMT -8
Great! I'm looking forward to seeing what you have to share, and thanks, by the way, for responding to my post. Eli Yeshua
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Post by Chizuk Emunah on Jul 9, 2005 6:51:38 GMT -8
Continuing on...
Mattiyahu 1:21
And behold, she will bear a son, and you will call his name Yeshua; for he will save his people from all their sins.
Couple of footnotes here: 'Shem Tob has "my people"; Aramaic OS (Crawford's) has "the world", which is likely due to a similiarity in Aramaic between l'olam and and l'ami, the latter of which appears in the Pesh'tta.
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