Adam Kadmon symbol for...

[Prodigal Girl]

Was it the symbol for Adam Kadmon that was written, vertically, above the cross in Hebrew? I have never heard the two connected before, but it just popped into my head this morning as I was studying.

[Prodigal Girl]

The symbol for Adam Kadmon is made of the letters of the Holy Name. So, the first letters of of the words they wrote in Hebrew on the cross formed this name. It was an acrostic, supposedly.

[Nachshon]

jewishjediguy said:

prodigalgirl said:

The symbol for Adam Kadmon is made of the letters of the Holy Name. So, the first letters of of the words they wrote in Hebrew on the cross formed this name. It was an acrostic, supposedly.

ah, i see what you're saying:

Yeshua
HaNatz'ri
U(V)Melekh'
HaY'hudim

"Yeshua the Nazarene and king of the Jews"

however, in the various Hebrew New Testaments, they don't word it that way

here's another one in Aramaic:

Yeshua
D'N'tzareth
(V)WaMal'ka
DeY'hudaya

"Yeshua the Nazarene and King of the Jews"
(YDVD)which is "Y'dod", meaning "Loving" or "Beloving"

so tell me, where have you heard of "Adam Kad'mon"? and do you know what that actually represents in the tradition?

Shalom b' Yeshua
~Z'ev Yochanan

This isn't a Hebrew reading, at all. It's Aramaic. If, as even the Peshitta reads, this was really in Hebrew, this reading would be impossible, since Hebrew doesn't have a daleth prefix. I think the Adam Kadmon reading is entirely possible in the original.

[Prodigal Girl]

I am trying to get beyond the "G-d can not be a man" issue, so I am interested in the whole Adam Kadmon strain of thinking. As I understand it, Adam Kadmon is the original, Adam/Eve is the copy of Adam Kadmon. Kind of like the earthly temple is the copy of the original. And Adam Kadmon is a heavenly being; more than just an angel. That is as far as I remember.
So anyway I looked at the symbol for Adam Kadmon and it came into my mind that the first letters of what was written on the cross, could have been the same letters as are in the symbol. Not sure. Maybe that is part of the reason they evoked such an emotional response from the Jewish leaders who saw the letters written above Yeshua's head. I do not know if the Adam Kadmon teaching and symbol was in existence at that time.

[Nachshon]

Metatron. If you want to get past the argument that God cannot be man, then you need to study Metatron.
Whenever Scripture says "The angel of the LORD" that's Metatron. He is actually called "The lesser YHWH." He appears in human form, even to the extent of being able to eat, and have physical contact with people.
Most of the ideas that they tell you are not Jewish really are. A close study of the Targumim, Zohar, Talmud, and Pesikta Rabba will show you virtually every one of these concepts.

Shalom,
Nachshon
P.S. see the links that I posted to anti-antimissionary sites.

[Nachshon]

I did not contend that he is the Mashiakh. I merely contended that he is God in a human form. He is the Lesser YHWH, and took on a human form.
We have the clear assertion of Yokhanan (both in John 1 and in I John) that the Mashiakh is Hochmah. Sha'ul also refers to this concept in R'homiya 10.
For another thing, you must recall that I am not particularly interested in the traditions. As a N'tzari wrote in his commentary on Isaiah, "It is not strange if you follow your traditions since every tribe consults its own idols. We must not, therefore, consult your dead about the living ones. On the contrary, God has given us the Law and the testimonies of the scriptures. If you are not willing to follow them you shall not have light, and the darkness will always oppress you."
Did you know that there is some speculation that the Tal'mud refers to Ben Zoma as insane because after he had his experience he accepted Rav Yehoshu'a as Mashiakh?

[Nachshon]

P.S. there are other instances of God-man in Jewish tradition, such as the Lubavitcher Rebbe's statement, "atzmus umehus alein vi er hat zich arengeshtalt in a guf."

Shabbat shalom,
Nachshon

[Nachshon]

Yes, I've come across a lot of Kabbalistic teaching. I've even studied sections of the Zohar on my own.
Ah. I see what you meant. My apologies for the confusion.
Something you may find interesting is Hebrews 1:3. It lists ten things that Yeshua is, and if you look at them closely, they parallel the ten Sephiroth.
I've been known to quote Zohar, Talmud, Ben-Yeruham, and even Rashi when I happen to agree with their assesment of a passage. In this case, I agree with this N'tzari. This is actually Jerome quoting a N'tzari commentator.
Basically, he said that a Rebbe is "the essence and substance of God in a human body." Some of the Mashichists take this literally, and think that Schneerson was God encarnate.
I only believe in a trinity in the sense of Keter, Khochmah, and Binah, which is where, I think, Christianity gets its trinity.

Y'varechecha YHWH v'yishmerecha.
Shabbat shalom,
Nachshon

[Nachshon]

jewishjediguy said:

i have actually noticed this before, especially when reading my Hebrew Version of the B'rith Chadashah, and have also seen many parallels to Kabbalah in much of the spiritual contexts of the B'rith Chadashah. just to let you know, i prefer the Hebrew B'rith Chadashah in my studies moreso than English.

I usually study using an Aramaic/English interlinear. (I think we have a thread on it someplace. It's the AEINT.) I've just begun to understand enough of the Kabbalah to find the things you're talking about. Especially in Yokhanan, 'Ivrim, and G'linah.

but be very careful in studying the Zohar. i have spent many years studying the Kabbalah (not Jewish Mysticism, there is a difference between the two), and that under the tutelage of a Rabbi who in turn learned from his Rabbi. he, however, taught me a system that isn't as common in mainstream Kabbalistic circles (which are the "Celebrity Versions"). he would teach from the Sepher ha Bahir and Sepher Y'tzirah, as well as other commentaries, and in connection with the Tanakh', but he was very strict about things pertaining to the Zohar. for one: Shim'on bar Yochai wasn't the author of the Zohar, though there are those who would fight tooth and nail saying that he was. and two: it is said that, and widely accepted (by Zohar enthusiasts) that, the Zohar was written through a method of meditation that lends itself to autimatic writing, which is supposedly when your spirit takes control and communicates, whereas the truth is, that it is when a spirit takes control of your hand while you are in a trance-like state. this, if it is true it was written in such a manner, is demonic communion. but, there are those who say that the author of the Zohar merely wrote from his own knowledge, in which case, the commentary thereof is merely opinion, as the Tal'mud and other works are merely opinion. i, like you, quote Mish'nah, Tal'mud, Mid'rash, and other commentaries "when I happen to agree with their assesment of a passage

I've generally studied Zohar and the Kabbalah in general either under the tutilage of a friend of mine who is a Chazzan/hacham, or by reading Chabad-Lubavitch articles and commentaries.

i didn't know this about the Rebbes.

At least, that was Schneerson's perspective.

i have never read anything by Jerome, i have, however, tried to read things by Thomas Aquinas, like the first Cause stuff etc, etc . and as boring as he may be to most, i like John Milton's writings. i attribute my escape from an overbearing church group to his writings. he promoted individualism in a believer's life in accordance with the Word, and not the dictates of the church, especially when they contradict Holy Writ. I've not really read Jerome, either. I've only read exerpts from several of his works. I read one letter to Augustine, and sections of two or three other works. I've read a lot of Eusebius and Epiphanius, though.

i can perceive it in my mind's eye, so to speak. but i cannot describe what it is i see... for it is infinite." ~a quote from one of my poems concerning "Shiur Komah" a.k.a. the "Elohuth" or "Godhead". you can find two of my poems online that i wrote years ago , at Art of Kabbalah, under the name Div'reishir , that was an old nic i had.

I may check that out.

Chesed v' Rachamim b' Yeshua ha Mashi'ach Nagid!
Z'ev Yochanan Valdron

Shalom,
Nachshon

[Nachshon]

I reccomend this interlinear, www.aramaicnt.com
and this syriac lexicon

[Nachshon]

You're welcome.
There are a lot of Aramaic lexicons, but I've only found two that are actually for Syriac. I think most of them are Biblical or Judean Aramaic.

[Prodigal Girl]

So where does the "Memra/Logos" fall in this discussion? From what I understand, the pre-rabbinic (by that I mean before the middle ages when the rabbinic religion took over the synagogues) synagogues clearly believed in and taught concerning Memra/Logos.
Philo, as well as a great number of NON Greek speaking Jews of the time period, including some of those among the rabbis, held this belief in Memra/Logos. It was only repressed much later, by medieval rabbis.