Yochanah
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Yochanah...Yah Enables
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Post by Yochanah on Jun 28, 2004 9:42:24 GMT -8
Please, can someone explain the significance of the "red heifer" of Numbers 19:2 and how it apply to the work being done to rebuild the temple in Jerusalem today?
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Post by R' Y'hoshua Moshe on Jun 28, 2004 11:47:59 GMT -8
The simple answer is that a perfect red heifer must be available to cleanse the temple.
Shalom,
Reuel
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Yochanah
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Yochanah...Yah Enables
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Post by Yochanah on Jun 29, 2004 12:36:41 GMT -8
Thank you.
Please, forgive my ignorance, but when the curtain was torn in twain by unseen hands, from top to bottom, and the atoning lamb got away, right at the moment of the death of Yeshua, the Perfect and Ultimate Sacrifice, and the sky was darkened and the earth shook because the Lamb of Yah, blessed be His name, took the weight of the world of sin on His shoulders, and He, who knew no sin, was made sin for us, that His Father left Him in that moment because He can not abide sin in His presence, all sacrifices which were given only to point the way to Messiah's Atoning Sacrifice were ended.
What temple are they talking about?
What time frame?
Who would be doing such a thing?
I pray it is not something looked forward to because that would be as if to say His Perfect, Atoning Sacrifice was not enough and it would be an attempt to take away all meaning of His death. Elohim forbid! Please straighten me out my brother.
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Post by R' Y'hoshua Moshe on Jun 29, 2004 13:06:24 GMT -8
The subjects that you are speaking of require careful, and patient study. I am happy to share what YHVH has revealed to me. But, no doubt my views will be met with strong opposition. The Temple will be rebuilt, and it will be the will of YHVH. I will start a new thread on this subject. No doubt it will be a spirited conversation. Let us just remember not to jump to conclusions, and be loving, and patient with each other throughout this conversation. Let us also try to keep our posts brief, and to the point, focusing on the scriptures while keeping the semantics to a minimum. I think that if we do this, many on this forum will learn some things that have escaped the attention of much of Christianity, and Messianic Judaism. If you would like to continue to discuss the significance of the red heifer alone in this thread that is fine. But, for the other subjects that you have addressed, I will start another thread. I will name it; "The Temple, and The Priesthood". Here is the link to the new thread: theloveofgod.proboards3.com/index.cgi?board=Judiasm&action=display&n=1&thread=875Shalom, v'ahava b'Shem Yeshua, Reuel |
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Yochanah
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Yochanah...Yah Enables
Posts: 99
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Post by Yochanah on Jun 29, 2004 13:25:15 GMT -8
Thank you , brother, that sounds good. Shalom
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Post by The 614th Mitzvot on Jul 17, 2004 18:23:36 GMT -8
I was reading some of the writings here and I don't mean to sound like a kabbalist, but I beleive Yohshuah HaMoshaich built a temple on the Mount Tzion in the Heaven. When he said in three days... he meant an actual temple not simply himself. Does this mean that we should not sacrifice if the temple was rebuilt, I think not, we should as a physical offering. I believe that anytime we pray Yohshuah HaMoshiach sacrifices for us in Heaven and to sacrifice on Earth would just make it a bit easier a sacrifice for him, so to speak. But I really don't know I just think these things which are in truth a hint of pilpul.  |
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Yochanah
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Yochanah...Yah Enables
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Post by Yochanah on Jul 17, 2004 21:52:55 GMT -8
SHALOM AND WELCOME BROTHER CHUMASH614,  Amein, for it is written: "And as He went out of the temple, one of His disciples saith unto Him, Master, see what manner of stones and what buildings are here! And Yeshua answering said unto him, Seest thou these great buildings? there shall not be left one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down." Mark 13:1-2 "We heard him say, I will destroy this temple that is made with hands, and within three days I will build another made without hands." Mark 14:58 “Know ye not that ye are the temple [dwelling place] of Elohim, and that the Spirit of Elohim dwelleth in you? If any man defile the temple of Elohim, him shall Elohim destroy; for the temple of Elohim is holy, which temple YE ARE.” 1 Cor. 3:16-17 “What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Set-apart Spirit which is in you, which ye have of Elohim, and ye are not your own?” 1 Cor. 6:19 “Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of Elohim; And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Yeshua haMachiach Himself being the chief corner stone; In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in YHWH: In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of Elohim through the Spirit” Ephes. 2:19-22 “And what agreement hath the temple of Elohim with idols? for ye are the temple of the living Elohim; as Elohim hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their Elohim, and they shall be My people.” 2 Cor. 6:16 “Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of My Elohim, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of My Elohim, and the name of the city of My Elohim, which is New Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from My Elohim: and I will write upon him My new name.” Rev. 3:12 “And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle [dwelling place] of Elohim is with men, and He will dwell with them, and they shall be His people, and Elohim Himself shall be with them, and be their Elohim. Rev. 21:3 "For the  , having a shadow of the good matters to come, and not the image itself of the matters, was never able to make perfect those who draw near with the same slaughter offerings which they offer continually year by year. Otherwise, would they not have ceased to be offered? Because those who served, once cleansed, would have had no more consciousness of sins. BUT IN THOSE OFFERINGS IS A REMINDER OF SINS YEAR BY YEAR. For it is impossible for blood of bulls and goats to take away sins. Therefore, coming into the world, He says, "Slaughtering and meal offering You did not desire, but a body You have prepared for Me. In burnt offerings and offerings for sin You did not delight. Then I said, 'See, I come - in the roll of the book it has been written concerning Me - to do Your desire, O Elohim." Saying above, " SLAUGHTER AND MEAL OFFERING, AND BURNT OFFERINGS, AND OFFERINGS FOR SIN YOU DID NOT DESIRE, NOR DELIGHT IN," WHICH ARE OFFERED ACCORDING TO , then He said, "See, I come to do Your desire, O Elohim." He takes away the first to establish the second. By that desire we have been set apart through the offering of the body of Yeshua haMachiach ONCE AND FOR ALL. And indeed every priest stands day by day doing service, and repeatedly offering the same slaughter offerings which are never able to take away sins. But He, having offered one slaughter offering for sins for ALL TIME, sat down at the right hand of Elohim, waiting from that time onward until His enemies are made a footstool for His feet. For by ONE OFFERING He has perfected for ALL TIME those who are being setapart. And the Setapart Spirit also witnesses to us, for after having said before, "This is the covenant that I shall make with them after those days, says YHWH, giving My laws into their hearts, and in their minds I shall write them," and "Their sins and their lawlessnesses I shall remember no more." Now where there is forgiveness of these, there is no longer a slaughter offering for sin. So, brothers, having boldness to enter into the Setapart Place by the blood of Yeshua, by a new and living way which He instituted for us, through the veil, that is , His flesh, and having a High Priest over the House of Elohim, let us draw near with a true heart in completeness of belief, having our hearts sprinkled from wicked conscience and our bodies washed with clean water." Hebrews 10:1-22 "I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of Elohim, that ye present your bodies A LIVING SACRIFICE, holy, acceptable unto Elohim, which is your reasonable service." Romans 12:1 Ahavah in Messiah, Yochanah |
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Post by el Gusano on Jul 18, 2004 0:35:42 GMT -8
This is an interesting subject. I don't have an opinion, but do have an observation and a question:
There are three clean animals that require no redemption (but can be used for sacrifice): Sheep, goats and cows. When Scripture is talking about the sheep on the right hand and the goats on the left, it's obviously talking about two types of believers (the sheep are obedient, the goats are lawless). Where does the cow fit in?
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Yochanah
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Yochanah...Yah Enables
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Post by Yochanah on Jul 18, 2004 9:16:26 GMT -8
Shalom, el Gusano,
You wrote: There are three clean animals that require no redemption (but can be used for sacrifice): Sheep, goats and cows. When Scripture is talking about the sheep on the right hand and the goats on the left, it's obviously talking about two types of believers (the sheep are obedient, the goats are lawless). Where does the cow fit in?
In answer to your question, my studies, praise His name, of the daily sacrifices have lead the following:
Of the burnt offering;
Ox or Bull signifies Power
Sheep or lamb - Sacrifice
Goat or kid - Redemptive Blood
Turtle Dove - Innocence
Young Pigeon - Humility
Sparrow - Concern
Which all represent "all that I am is Messiah's"
[In the singular case of the "red heifer" I am impressed that it signified His meek and innocent blood atoning for all our sins]
Meal Offering:
Fine Flour - signifies Man
Oil - Elohim
Frankincense - Sweet Fragrance
Salt - Purify, Perserve, Set-apart
Which represents "all that I have is Messiah's"
Drink Offering:
Pure Olive Oil - Indwelling of the Set-apart Spirit
New Grape - Messiah's Atoning Blood
Which represent "I am because of Messiah"
Peace Offering:
Bull, Sheep or Goat - best of the herd or flock, unblemished
Which represent "celebration of peace with Elohim"
I pray that this will be helpful
Ahavah,
Yochanah
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Post by R' Y'hoshua Moshe on Jul 18, 2004 11:44:50 GMT -8
Yochanah, In regards to the scriptures you provided...they speak of different priesthoods, and different temples which do not cancel one another. In regards to the temple(s), one is commanded in the , one is the body of the believer, one is the coming future temple during Messiah's Earthly reign, and the last is the Heavenly Temple as spoken of in the book of Revelation. All these temples, and their ordinances are for different purposes which are all valid, and which do not cancel each other. For example, The Heavenly Temple spoken of in Revelation does not cancel our bodily temple. When it is said that the Red Heifer is longer valid to cleanse the physical Temple of G'd, such a one speaks from a position of not understanding the different purposes of these institutions. As we have already seen in the book Ivrim (Hebrews), the blood of bulls/cows, and goats -never- truly took away sin (this was the purpose of Yeshua The Messiah's sacrifice). Therefore, the Levitical Priesthood never truly competed with Yeshua The Messiah's sacrifice (which is a different sacrifice with a different purpose). In this light, it is plain to see that the sacrifice of the red heifer must have a different application compared to what you currently believe. In other words, either the book of Hebrews is wrong, or your interpretation of the Levitical sacrifical system is a little off base (as you believe that this system previously did take the place of Yeshua's Sacrifice). But, if you don't believe that The Levitical Priesthood previously took the place of Yeshua's Sacrifice (His sacrifice is actually described to have been done before the foundation of the world)...than you cannot believe that it will compete with His sacrifice in the future. And, if you don't believe that it will compete with His sacrifice...than we don't have a problem. Let's take a look at the passage in question (Numbers 19:1-9)... "And YHVH spake unto Moses and unto Aaron, saying, This is the ordinance of the law which YHVH hath commanded, saying, Speak unto the children of Israel, that they bring thee a red heifer without spot, wherein is no blemish, and upon which never came yoke: And ye shall give her unto Eleazar the priest, that he may bring her forth without the camp, and one shall slay her before his face: And Eleazar the priest shall take of her blood with his finger, and sprinkle of her blood directly before the tabernacle of the congregation seven times:"Let's stop here for a moment. It speaks of Eleazer the priest when perfoming this. But, one must understand that he would not need to be resurrected (although this could be a possibility), but the duties of the various level's of the Priesthood where carried on by the family line. Let us continue... "And one shall burn the heifer in his sight; her skin, and her flesh, and her blood, with her dung, shall he burn: And the priest shall take cedar wood, and hyssop, and scarlet, and cast it into the midst of the burning of the heifer. Then the priest shall wash his clothes, and he shall bathe his flesh in water, and afterward he shall come into the camp, and the priest shall be unclean until the even. And he that burneth her shall wash his clothes in water, and bathe his flesh in water, and shall be unclean until the even. And a man that is clean shall gather up the ashes of the heifer, and lay them up without the camp in a clean place, and it shall be kept for the congregation of the children of Israel for a water of separation: it is a purification for sin."Let us consider the above passage. First, we need to again understand that according to the book of Hebrews...the blood of bulls/cows, and goats never truly removed sin. Therefore, we must interpret the above passage to mean something other than that it serves the same purpose, or competes with the sacrifice of Yeshua HaMashiach. We also see that Rabbi Shaul (Paul) understood this as well when he participated in a temple sacrifice that involved similar cleansings (Acts 21:23-24, 26-27).... " Do therefore this that we say to thee: We have four men which have a vow on them; Them take, and purify thyself with them, and be at charges with them, that they may shave their heads: and all may know that those things, whereof they were informed concerning thee, are nothing; but that thou thyself also walkest orderly, and keepest the law. Then Paul took the men, and the next day purifying himself with them entered into the temple, to signify the accomplishment of the days of purification, until that an offering should be offered for every one of them. And when the seven days were almost ended, the Jews which were of Asia, when they saw him in the temple, stirred up all the people, and laid hands on him" Notice how many years after Yeshua HaMashiach departed that Sha'ul (Paul) validated the temple, and it's priesthood. And remember, Sha'ul (Paul) most likely wrote the book of Hebrews. We all should remember that just because we don't understand something in the light of our own theology does not make it false...it just requires further study, and prayer. We currently see, and understand a little of G-d's plan at this point in time. But, when Messiah comes back we will know, and understand is His full plan (and the details therein). All of His purposes will be made clear. Until then, we must trust what is outlined in the TeNaKh (old test.), and the Brit Hadashah (new test.) must fall in line. In regards to this discussion one will do well to understand that my statements are in no way meant to imply that Yeshua The Messiah's sacrifice is diminished by the Levitical Priesthood, and it's sacrifices. I am not saying in any way, shape, or form that our salvation comes from any other source than Yeshua The Messiah's precious shed blood (as this seems to be the main objection). Let us please forward any further discussion in regards to The Temple (other than the significance of the red heifer) to the apropriate thread designated for this. Shalom chaverim, Reuel |
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Yochanah
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Yochanah...Yah Enables
Posts: 99
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Post by Yochanah on Jul 19, 2004 12:11:14 GMT -8
ADMIN:
Per my above request which was ignored, and the inappropriate remarks which were made, this post has been deleted.
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Post by Blake on Feb 16, 2005 3:00:19 GMT -8
I was reading some of the writings here and I don't mean to sound like a kabbalist, but I beleive Yohshuah HaMoshaich built a temple on the Mount Tzion in the Heaven. When he said in three days... he meant an actual temple not simply himself. Does this mean that we should not sacrifice if the temple was rebuilt, I think not, we should as a physical offering. I believe that anytime we pray Yohshuah HaMoshiach sacrifices for us in Heaven and to sacrifice on Earth would just make it a bit easier a sacrifice for him, so to speak. But I really don't know I just think these things which are in truth a hint of pilpul. Well I too belive that there is a temple in heaven, but that it was made long ago for the eartly temple was modeled after it. |
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from Sinai and transmitted it to Yoheshuah; Yoheshuah to the Shoftim; the Shoftim to the Nev'yim; and the Nev'yim transmitted it throughout Judea. It came BACK to Yohshuah HaMoshiach who retransmitted it to the rest of the world through Reb Sha'ul and Reb Cephas.
