What is "Holy Spirit" led and taught?

[Walter]

This topic isn't about anyone here in particular, or about this forum.
But rather from general observations: at multiple Christian forums; at the truck stop chapel; at christiian ministires on tv and radio; at "churches"; and the numerous Christians I've personally met.


So So many Christians and ministries today CLAIM to be "Holy Spirit led" or will CLAIM to "be taught by The Holy Spirit rather than by men"

IS THIS SO?


Lets look at just ONE "doctrine"
Tongues (just an example - not ment to be a debate on tongues)


Some say you are not saved if you don't speak in tongues

Some say you are saved, but not filled or baptized by the Holy Spirit as evidenced by speking in tongues

Some say speaking in tongues is but ONE evidence of the filling / baptisim of The Holy Spirit

Some say tongues is for today - but for foreign missionaries, not for the "church" in America

Some say it is done away with and is not for Christians today

All the different camps "CLAIM" to be "Holy Spirit led and taught"

Well they can't ALL (if any) be RIGHT Question Question Question

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Even with the "IC" verses "OOC" / "Messianic" verses "Traditional(?) / " observeant" verses "Grace centered" / "denominational" "nondenominational" debates and discussions each "camp" CLAIMS to be "Holy Spirit led"

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What I've come to observe is
that the stronger a person asserts to be "led by The Holy Spirit" or to be "taught by The Holy Spirit rather than by men"
the more pride and ego is involved

I notice that much of what is of our flesh - we attribute to The Holy Spirit

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Where is the humility???

Where is the love for the brethren???

Where is the unity???

Where is the thinking and caring more for others than for self???

Where is the peace and patience towards others?

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I've gotten to the point that when a hear (or see) one claiming or asserting to be "Holy Spirit" led or taught

A big red "flesh and pride" warning flag goes up and I become scepticle.

I know this is a wrong attitude - but I've become weary and tired of it all

The division of The Bride of Christ caused by it all

The hurt caused by it all

The lost and hurting that are missed and ignorged thru it all


I'm not going to offer any solutions, what I have to offer is of NO value
I'm just sharing my observations and frustrations

[Seeker2]

Yes, I see what you mean and I agree. I did not come from a charasmatic background, but I cant say that the gifts are not active today by any means. What I can say is that I have not seen any evidence myself that the people who are "speaking in tongues" are actually doing so. They believe that they are. I have never seen any one interperet what they say, and I have never seen a person speaking in a forign language understood. I have never seen anyone healed of a malady that can be proved as in the bible either. I have never been told something in prophecy that miraculously came true (except by a psychic who searched me out at the mall and another who gave a prediction to my husband's cousin!). The signs and wonders in the bible were obvious, but none that I have seen have been remotely like that. I'm not saying that they dont exsist...I just havent seen them. What I have seen is alot of christians saying that the Spirit led them or G-d told them such and such. I question that since He often gave signs to people that He had actually spoken by prophecy that came true (ie: Moses would worship Him at Sinai after the exodus) but not to any of those people. I think He does lead us by His Spirit, but it's hard to determine if it's His or something else (like an unclean spirit or our own) without a sign of some type! Samuel didn't "feel" G-d talking to his heart, he HEARD HIM loud enought to answer!
I absolutly believe in Faith, but not blind faith! I believe in Yeshua for a reason! But I have no reason to believe in the "sign" of people falling out in church (I've seen plenty of people falling out in the ER where I used to work and it wasnt the Spirit of G-d.) Couldnt it be another spirit?? How are we to know???

[Mark]

And there were seven sons of Sceva, a Jewish chief priest, who did so. But answering the evil spirit said, Jesus I know, and I comprehend Paul, but who are you? And the man in whom the evil spirit resided leaped on them, and overcoming them he was strong against them, so that they fled out of the house naked and wounded.
(Act 19:14-16 MKJV)


In our carnality, we have a very "push a button, pull a string" mentality. How more confusing could it be when we begin to define and qualify one's spirituality based upon a condition of rote supernatural evidences. I agree that this is exactly the sort of deception that the Evil One attempts to lure us into.

Messiah Yeshua gave a broader definition of which theological position to follow:

Beware of false prophets who come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. You shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thorns, or figs from thistles? Even so every good tree brings forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree brings forth evil fruit. A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruits, nor can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. Every tree that does not bring forth good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. Therefore by their fruits you shall know them.
(Mat 7:15-20 MKJV)

So, it's not according to flare or according to miraculous signs and wonders that we see the evidence of the Holy Spirit; but, in context, essentially commitment to obedience of in love.

I believe that tongues is/can be an evidence of the Holy Spirit- not for our validation but as His gift. Whether it be sincere or a fraud is between that person and Adonai. If there is a prophecy given in a tongue, there must be an interpretation and we will judge that interpretation based upon its consistency with the text of Scripture, just as we will judge any other prophecy. If the person is quietly worshipping to himself/herself in a tongue, it is a beautiful manifestation of that person's participation in intimate worship.

In summary, it is never wrong to ask the question, "chapter and verse?" when someone is giving you a Word as led by "the Spirit". The Spirit of Adonai will not speak in contradiction nor irrelevant to the written Word. The person may not have an immediate answer; but if they are Spirit led, they will be encouraged to continue listening for the Spirit to guide them with that answer.

Mark

[Tzav_laTzav]

From childhood, I have observed many of the things you are writing about. Because Father was a missionary-pastor, we went from place to place, and the error of people who claimed to be "spirit-taught" was often obvious.

Some would not be a part of any congregation because, they said, there was too much wrong with the congregations. It wouldn't take long in their homes or in their presence before one would see they had a problem -- even to a child.

The Spirit, obviously, is promised to everyone as a teacher, but when a person sequesters him/herself and tries to learn alone, too much of the individual gets too mixed into the recipe. We need one another: we need others' insights, others' world-views, other's educations, others' opinions to have a fully-rounded biblical view. Obviously, we sometimes throw out some of that as invalid, but carefully choosing those with whom we study minimizes that. We are told not to forsake being with one another for a very good reason.

Along this line, through the years, I have known of many persons who said "G-d told me I am going to marry **." Oddly, G-d had also told some others that they were going to marry **!" What was He thinking?!?