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Post by Mark on Mar 1, 2006 4:57:19 GMT -8
The Greek word for sin "hamartiah" simply means "to miss the mark". Interestinly, the Hebrew word "seen" is in reference to the Egyptian desert that the Children of Israel crossed. The idea is that of a void, nothingness.
Our idea of sin is somewhat skewed because of our tendency to want to associate it with a direct action or conduct. James said, "He who knows to do good and does not do it, to him it is sin."
Our ideas of sin create some pretty uncomfortable questions. If all things were created by God, and God is good, how could He create sin? If God is perfect, how could He create that which was flawed- specifically Satan.
The answer is found in that sin is not a thing in itself. It is simply the absense of good. It is the chaos that remains when righteousness is removed. It's like in the beginning when God created light. He didn't create darkness. It was already there because it is nothing of itself, simply the absense of the created light. Yet, He did not destroy darkness either. He left place for it. Sin is simply the result of God's restraining His creative power- and for purpose, that we may know His goodness out of the contrast of of our having had the knowledge of sin. It is a perfect plan, yet, not without sacrifice. Had we never known hunger, we could never be satisfied with food.
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Post by Chizuk Emunah on Mar 1, 2006 6:13:53 GMT -8
Very well put Mark!
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Post by R' Y'hoshua Moshe on Mar 4, 2006 0:35:09 GMT -8
Yes,  is a light in which we can walk through the thick darkness of this world which otherwise would trap us in it's deep void and swallow us alive.... "For the mitzvah is a lamp, and is light..." - Mishlei/Proverbs 6:23 Sin, is the void of that instruction in one's life, but those whom walk in the light of will not stumble... "...then you shall walk in your way safely, and your foot shall not stumble." - Mishlei/Proverbs 3:23 Truly Yeshua The Messiah came to set us free... "So I will obey your continually, forever and ever. I will walk in liberty, for I have sought your precepts." - Tehellim/Psalms 119:44-45 But, sin crouches at our door....and it's desire is to rule over us... "Little children, let no one lead you astray. He who does righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous. He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has been sinning from the beginning. To this end the Son of G'd was revealed, that he might destroy the works of the devil." - 1Yochanan/John 3:7-8 Shalom aleychem chaverim, Reuel |
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Post by Mpossoff on Jan 11, 2007 3:12:00 GMT -8
Sin is missing the mark. We miss the mark all the time because of our nature. When we are born again we have a new nature, the Spirit but the old nature is still there. Psalm 51:5 5 Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me.We are born with a sin nature and sooner or later that sin nature gets activated; evil, ungodliness, unrighteusness. There are many scriptures that God says in His Word about evil, ungodliness, unrighteousness. Why do we sin because we are sinners from the start. We are sinners by birth, by nature and/or by choice. Marc The Greek word for sin "hamartiah" simply means "to miss the mark". Interestinly, the Hebrew word "seen" is in reference to the Egyptian desert that the Children of Israel crossed. The idea is that of a void, nothingness. Our idea of sin is somewhat skewed because of our tendency to want to associate it with a direct action or conduct. James said, "He who knows to do good and does not do it, to him it is sin." Our ideas of sin create some pretty uncomfortable questions. If all things were created by God, and God is good, how could He create sin? If God is perfect, how could He create that which was flawed- specifically Satan. The answer is found in that sin is not a thing in itself. It is simply the absense of good. It is the chaos that remains when righteousness is removed. It's like in the beginning when God created light. He didn't create darkness. It was already there because it is nothing of itself, simply the absense of the created light. Yet, He did not destroy darkness either. He left place for it. Sin is simply the result of God's restraining His creative power- and for purpose, that we may know His goodness out of the contrast of of our having had the knowledge of sin. It is a perfect plan, yet, not without sacrifice. Had we never known hunger, we could never be satisfied with food. |
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Pioneer
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Shema and Shemar
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Post by Pioneer on Jan 11, 2007 13:12:23 GMT -8
Sin is missing the mark. We miss the mark all the time because of our nature. When we are born again we have a new nature, the Spirit but the old nature is still there. Psalm 51:5 5 Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me.We are born with a sin nature and sooner or later that sin nature gets activated; evil, ungodliness, unrighteusness. There are many scriptures that God says in His Word about evil, ungodliness, unrighteousness. Why do we sin because we are sinners from the start. We are sinners by birth, by nature and/or by choice. Marc The Greek word for sin "hamartiah" simply means "to miss the mark". Interestinly, the Hebrew word "seen" is in reference to the Egyptian desert that the Children of Israel crossed. The idea is that of a void, nothingness. Our idea of sin is somewhat skewed because of our tendency to want to associate it with a direct action or conduct. James said, "He who knows to do good and does not do it, to him it is sin." Our ideas of sin create some pretty uncomfortable questions. If all things were created by God, and God is good, how could He create sin? If God is perfect, how could He create that which was flawed- specifically Satan. The answer is found in that sin is not a thing in itself. It is simply the absense of good. It is the chaos that remains when righteousness is removed. It's like in the beginning when God created light. He didn't create darkness. It was already there because it is nothing of itself, simply the absense of the created light. Yet, He did not destroy darkness either. He left place for it. Sin is simply the result of God's restraining His creative power- and for purpose, that we may know His goodness out of the contrast of of our having had the knowledge of sin. It is a perfect plan, yet, not without sacrifice. Had we never known hunger, we could never be satisfied with food. Welcome to the forum, I am one of the former goyim, with a past almost like yours, not religious but doing the Christian holidays. So I did not have a boat load of doctrines to unlearn. When I came to understand my need for God, being from the Christian side of town, I started my search in the New Testament. What little I had gotten from my early childhood and life in the community certainly did not jive with the biblical Jesus, He was clearly Jewish and did Jewish things, went to synogogue and the Temple spoke Jewish/Temple/Judism even in English, to me it was apparent. The more I studied him the more confused I became. One afternoon as I stood gazing into my small forest, I became unaware of time,self, and surroundings, when I became aware again, suddenly "I knew!" I didn't at that moment know just what "I knew." But I knew I knew it. For about ten years with the help of an unconventional Christian(He kept Sabbath, the Moedim and quasi kosher.) I studied the and the NT as a whole bible not two sections. In a few years I did get a computer and found out that I was not the only one who believed as I had had discovered. I identified with the NT biblical, Way, the group who Sha'ul persecuted to death, and discovered on his way to Damascus, that he was to become one of them. This was before I discovered that the name "The Way" had been sullied by a group of sometimes nutty people. Anyway I still consider myself to be of "The Way", sometimes having to defend the ones in the bible. Assuring everyone I am and never have been a member of "The Way International." Okay, that being said, we are the same, but different, as we are both to keep , you being Jewish, will need to find someone who is like you, but abit wiser in the theology area. It is my understanding that being a Jewish Believer in Yeshua, you are not to become like a Christian. Some converts have done just that and I am afraid have missed the boat in both Judism and Messianic Believers. I do hope this is making sense. Well mainly, I am trying to keep you from adopting Christian doctrine, once you have it, it is hard to dump and it creeps into your mind and messes it up, so beware of the doctrines, as Yeshua/Jesus said of the "Leaven of the Pharissees", beware of the leaven of Christians. Here is hoping I did not confuse you or bore you or over step my bounds. This is one of the very best Forums in the Messianic realm. A good place to be. Shalom |
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Post by Mpossoff on Jan 11, 2007 15:30:17 GMT -8
Thanks Pioneer!
What do you mean by adopting Christian dosctrine?
What the difference between Jewish and Christian doctrine?
Marc
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Post by Mpossoff on Jan 11, 2007 15:42:53 GMT -8
Mark are you saying we are not born sinners from the start? That we are not born with a sin nature? Marc The Greek word for sin "hamartiah" simply means "to miss the mark". Interestinly, the Hebrew word "seen" is in reference to the Egyptian desert that the Children of Israel crossed. The idea is that of a void, nothingness. Our idea of sin is somewhat skewed because of our tendency to want to associate it with a direct action or conduct. James said, "He who knows to do good and does not do it, to him it is sin." Our ideas of sin create some pretty uncomfortable questions. If all things were created by God, and God is good, how could He create sin? If God is perfect, how could He create that which was flawed- specifically Satan. The answer is found in that sin is not a thing in itself. It is simply the absense of good. It is the chaos that remains when righteousness is removed. It's like in the beginning when God created light. He didn't create darkness. It was already there because it is nothing of itself, simply the absense of the created light. Yet, He did not destroy darkness either. He left place for it. Sin is simply the result of God's restraining His creative power- and for purpose, that we may know His goodness out of the contrast of of our having had the knowledge of sin. It is a perfect plan, yet, not without sacrifice. Had we never known hunger, we could never be satisfied with food. |
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Pioneer
Full Member
Shema and Shemar
Posts: 210
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Post by Pioneer on Jan 11, 2007 18:41:04 GMT -8
Thanks Pioneer! What do you mean by adopting Christian dosctrine? What the difference between Jewish and Christian doctrine? Marc Jewish doctrine, hear and observe . Christian doctrine is much of a replacement theology, Sunday, Christmas, _aster/replace Passover, replace God's chosen people, rapture, trinity and the list goes on. The irony is that none of them are to be found in the NT, unless you read between the lines. All developed in the third and fourth century, not the theology of the "Way", Yeshua said "I am the truth, the way and the life." Shalom |
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Post by Mpossoff on Jan 12, 2007 4:32:15 GMT -8
Thanks Pioneer I'm a Jew. I'm was born a Jew because that how God designed it.
I'm a believer and Love the Messiah with as much as I got. At night when I praise Him I'm also broken in spirit, that I miss the mark, that I want to Love Him more and that I fall short in that. The Grace is unspeakable that He saved me and that I didn't deserve it.
But the battle is I believe I might be missing the mark as a Jewish believer.
What do you suggest?
Marc
Psalm 51: 17 The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit;
a broken and contrite heart,
O God, you will not despise.
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Post by Chizuk Emunah on Jan 12, 2007 5:51:45 GMT -8
Shalom Marc, I know you were addressing Pioneer, but I thought I'd jump in and throw in my 2 cents. It is good that you have a contrite spirit. That indicates your willingness to serve HaShem "with all your heart, soul, and might." The first thing I would suggest to you is that you begin by studying the . Y'hoshua said that it was not done away with {Mattityahu 5:17}, so obviously it still holds application for our lives. Once you begin to truly study the , a whole new world opens before your eyes. My second suggestion is to stop studying with that pastor. Once he sees you turning to , he may try to steer you away from it. He will try implant in your mind centuries of Hellenist philosophies as well as bits of paganism, all the while diverting you from HaShem and your people. |
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Post by Mark on Jan 12, 2007 6:32:04 GMT -8
Hi Marc, David said "the wicked are estranged from the womb, they go astray as soon as they are born, speaking lies." (Psalm 58:3) . Sin is the natural state of all mind who have not been regenerated by the work of Messiah. In fact, Paul describes this supernatural transformation (we call salvation) as "quickenning", the first signs of life felt by the mother when the babe is in her womb. He also refers to those not saved as "dead in trespasses and sins." What I suggest is that righteousness is not passive. Sin is not simply doing bad things. If one lowers his bow and never releases his arrow he misses the mark just as much as if had shot into the neighbor's yard by mistake. I remember being very young (six, maybe seven) and hearing that the word "sin" means to miss the mark. That's great! This is real information and so I asked the question, "What am I shooting at?" No one could give me an answer. Imagine pastors with doctorates in theology and Bible languages being stumped by a toe-haired kid that couldn't keep his shoes tied or his shirt tucked in. It was certainly baffling to me. This is because "the mark" is . John tells us in 1st John 4:3 that sin is transgression of the Law. Paul says in Romans 3:20 that "by the Law is the knowledge of sin." is the goal fo rwhich we shoot in our attempt to live righteously. Of course, we never hit it with any consistency. Even if we find the corner of the target, we don't hit the bullseye. It's not that the target is so far or away. It's just that we're such lousy shots. Fortunately, Messiah Yeshua is there gathering up our arrows. There is no condemnation for those who are in Messiah Yeshua. |
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Pioneer
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Shema and Shemar
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Post by Pioneer on Jan 12, 2007 7:43:52 GMT -8
Thanks Pioneer I'm a Jew. I'm was born a Jew because that how God designed it. I'm a believer and Love the Messiah with as much as I got. At night when I praise Him I'm also broken in spirit, that I miss the mark, that I want to Love Him more and that I fall short in that. The Grace is unspeakable that He saved me and that I didn't deserve it. But the battle is I believe I might be missing the mark as a Jewish believer. What do you suggest? Marc Psalm 51: 17 The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit;
a broken and contrite heart,
O God, you will not despise. Shalom Marc, I can identify with your past, as I too was much like you, except I was on the goy side of the coin. As I said earlier, you being a Jew, need to be taught by a Jew who has the Messiah and is qualified to teach. As you may have already discovered there are some here that meet that standard. There is an old addage "Too many cooks spoil the broth." Right now you are being overloaded by all of us well meaning "interested in helping you" folks. You have read many comments here, my advice to you is to select the writer who most closely resembles you, who you are and walk with him for a while until you get your footing here. All of us have some knowledge that is helpful to most anyone who is seeking the truth. If Christianity were the way, then there would not be 3500 + denominations. Each with their own interpretation. I saw a bumper sticker once it said "Don't Follow Me! I am Lost" I am afraid 3500 + ways indicate people who want to find something i.e. The Savior, but are following someone who is lost. When Yeshua/Jesus said "I am the truth, the way and the life." All of those things discribe , Truth, the way and the life. Man does not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God/ . Deut.8:3 & Mt. 4:4. I am pleased you are here, I hope you find comfort and good wisdom here. Please stay long enough to find that we are not trying to discourage your love for Jesus. We love him also, we just call him by the name his momma gave him. Shalom |
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Post by Mpossoff on Jan 12, 2007 11:44:03 GMT -8
When Jesus was asked what the greatest commandent was, He answered with scripture from the .... “Hear O Israel, the Lord is our God, the Lord alone. Therefore, you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your strength.”I believe if you "practice" the greatest commandent it opens the door. In other words without it you "doomed". I call David the anti-typical Jesus. As he LOVED the Lord. A man after Gods heart. In the David is the best example of “Hear O Israel, the Lord is our God, the Lord alone. Therefore, you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your strength.”. I know the Lord is leading me somewhere and He knows my heart and will lead me to Truth. Marc Thanks Pioneer I'm a Jew. I'm was born a Jew because that how God designed it. I'm a believer and Love the Messiah with as much as I got. At night when I praise Him I'm also broken in spirit, that I miss the mark, that I want to Love Him more and that I fall short in that. The Grace is unspeakable that He saved me and that I didn't deserve it. But the battle is I believe I might be missing the mark as a Jewish believer. What do you suggest? Marc Psalm 51: 17 The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit;
a broken and contrite heart,
O God, you will not despise. Shalom Marc, I can identify with your past, as I too was much like you, except I was on the goy side of the coin. As I said earlier, you being a Jew, need to be taught by a Jew who has the Messiah and is qualified to teach. As you may have already discovered there are some here that meet that standard. There is an old addage "Too many cooks spoil the broth." Right now you are being overloaded by all of us well meaning "interested in helping you" folks. You have read many comments here, my advice to you is to select the writer who most closely resembles you, who you are and walk with him for a while until you get your footing here. All of us have some knowledge that is helpful to most anyone who is seeking the truth. If Christianity were the way, then there would not be 3500 + denominations. Each with their own interpretation. I saw a bumper sticker once it said "Don't Follow Me! I am Lost" I am afraid 3500 + ways indicate people who want to find something i.e. The Savior, but are following someone who is lost. When Yeshua/Jesus said "I am the truth, the way and the life." All of those things discribe , Truth, the way and the life. Man does not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God/ . Deut.8:3 & Mt. 4:4. I am pleased you are here, I hope you find comfort and good wisdom here. Please stay long enough to find that we are not trying to discourage your love for Jesus. We love him also, we just call him by the name his momma gave him. Shalom |
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Post by Chizuk Emunah on Jan 12, 2007 12:34:37 GMT -8
Allow me to translate: Sh'ma Yisrael Adonai Elohaynu Adonai Echad. V-ahavta et Adonai Elohecha b-chol l'vavcha u-vchol naf'sh'cha u-vchol m'odecha. These two phrases are actually both part of the Sh'ma, which can be found in D'varim {Deuteronomy} 6:4-9, D'varim 11:13-21, and B'midbar {Numbers} 15:37-41. As Y'hoshua said, this is the greatest mitzvah and the central tenant of Judaism. And the second is like it. Herayni mekabel alai mitzvat asay shel v-ahavta larecha kamocha. And you shall love your neighbor as yourself. On these two mitzvot hang the and Nevi'im. All other mitzvot flow from these. |
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Post by Mpossoff on Jan 12, 2007 14:11:12 GMT -8
Ooops excuse me Shmuel A - 1 Samuel is not in the as I referred to David in the . I'm learning. Marc Allow me to translate: Sh'ma Yisrael Adonai Elohaynu Adonai Echad. V-ahavta et Adonai Elohecha b-chol l'vavcha u-vchol naf'sh'cha u-vchol m'odecha. These two phrases are actually both part of the Sh'ma, which can be found in D'varim {Deuteronomy} 6:4-9, D'varim 11:13-21, and B'midbar {Numbers} 15:37-41. As Y'hoshua said, this is the greatest mitzvah and the central tenant of Judaism. And the second is like it. Herayni mekabel alai mitzvat asay shel v-ahavta larecha kamocha. And you shall love your neighbor as yourself. On these two mitzvot hang the and Nevi'im. All other mitzvot flow from these. |
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is a light in which we can walk through the thick darkness of this world which otherwise would trap us in it's deep void and swallow us alive....
