Yafet, the one and only ;-)

[SimchatTorah]

I am not quite sure where to start...

I'm 27, married to a wonderfully gorgeous young lady, and I currently work as a Network Administrator. I have a B.S. in computer programming, minor in philosophy (also studied in 3 Yeshivot). I have recently decided I'll be going back to grad school fall '05. I work at the University of Illinois, and obviously I subsequently live in Illinois.

But all that is neither here nor there.

Spiritually? Life's been a roller coaster, but who's hasn't?

Right now I attend Sinai Temple, a conservative synagogue (not messianic). I will be visiting the Chabad Rabbi over the next few months and discussing with him possible conversion to the Chassidim. Anywhooo.... I'm sure I could go on for hours and hours here, but I'll let ya'all decide what you want to know about me.

My life is an open boook.

shalom,
yafet

[SimchatTorah]

I am all over the internet as simchat_torah
(with the underscore)

However, this forum didn't alllow the underscore, so I had to drop it for now. I've been to a kazillion forums, yadda yadda yadda... but this one has a lot of appeal to me as it seems like a small community, and somewhat of a 'safe haven' for the MJ community.

As long as you welcome us heretics, I'm on board

[R' Y'hoshua Moshe]

Welcome SimchatTorah!

As long as you welcome us heretics, I'm on board

All depends on your definition of "heretic".
I have been called a heretic

The important thing is that what we teach comes from the scriptures as taught by Mashiach (Mark 7:9). If you don't mind me asking, what is your reason for not attending a Messianic Synagogue? And, are you free to share your faith in our Master as He has commanded?

Shalom achi,

Reuel

[SimchatTorah]

hehe, I was sorta kidding about the "heretic" thing. Basically, all of Messianic Judaism, and its tennets, are considered heretical according to typical christianity.

If you don't mind me asking, what is your reason for not attending a Messianic Synagogue?

Well, a few reasons really...

1) The early believers continued going to synagogue and didn't create "churches". In fact, they were instructed in Acts 15 to continue going, on Sabbath, to hear the read.

2) Messianic Judaism is... Messy-anic judaism. It is a very very very very messy movement. You have people who say you have to be "baptized naked", you have replacement theology, you have people who don't really observe Sabbath while condemning others for not doing so in the same breath... I could go on and on. Messyanic Judaism is gross right now, and I'll have no part of it.

3) Yeshua is the embodiment of the . The synagogue teaches, breathes, and reads . What better place to see, understand, and realize who the messiah is than in synagogue?



As well, why should I reject my heritage? Though I was raised in a secular home, I still feel more a part of my community when attending synagogue than church or messianic congregations.


shalom,
yafet

[SimchatTorah]

And, are you free to share your faith in our Master as He has commanded?

In what way?

-yafet

[R' Y'hoshua Moshe]

1) The early believers continued going to synagogue and didn't create "churches". In fact, they were instructed in Acts 15 to continue going, on Sabbath, to hear the read.

Are we not to meet with like-minded believers for the moedim? Are there others that are believers that attend the synagouge with you?

2) Messianic Judaism is... Messy-anic judaism. It is a very very very very messy movement. You have people who say you have to be "baptized naked", you have replacement theology, you have people who don't really observe Sabbath while condemning others for not doing so in the same breath... I could go on and on. Messyanic Judaism is gross right now, and I'll have no part of it.

I have yet to see a Messianic, or observant group that get's baptized naked. Those whom teach replacement theology could not be considered a part of Messianic Judaism. And, hypocrisy is rampant in all sections of the Christian church. This is no different than Christianity as many of the sects therein are just as messy with all it's different groups, and all of the things you mentioned can be found in common Christianity. What we need is for the few observant believers whom are not crazy to stick it out, and help to organize the movement.

In what way?

Sharing our faith with unbelievers, and making disciples as we are instructed by Yeshua HaMashiach.

Shalom,

Reuel

[SimchatTorah]

I made a little booboo... I said I was 27, I'm really 26. I must be getting old to make little mistakes like that.


Anywho...

Are we not to meet with like-minded believers for the moedim?

I am 100% Judaic in my theology, thus I am with like-minded believers. I do not believe that Yeshua came to start a chasm between Judaism and those who accept him as Moshiach. To me, this is devastating and has resulted in the mess we have today.

Are there others that are believers that attend the synagouge with you?

My wife and I make two.

I have yet to see a Messianic, or observant group that get's baptized naked.

That was just one example of many. How about going out to eat and spending money after Saturday morning services? How about selling books and tapes after Friday night services? I haven't seen a single messianic congregation that doesn't[/i] do these things.

It seems that a lot of the messianic congregations today are what have been termed "Church in a Kippah". They are primarily christian in doctrine and expression, yet have 'jewish flavors' added to make themselves feel good.

Many will call themselves a "Rabbi" but have no rabbinical training. Some will wear tzitzit but declare it is a sin to wear a kippah, others wear kippot. Some light candles after sundown. Some have pork at potlucks, others don't mix meat and dairy. This list goes on and on.

This is what happens when you don't have an authentically Jewish expression. You see, the messinaic movement is mostly made up of ex-christians who 'found a truth' and ran with it. Instead of building upon the foundation of Judaism they have made up thier own messy theology. The leadership is sloppy, there is no one who is truly 'rooted deeply' in the Jewish faith, and most of it reflects christianity in its worship style.

Those whom teach replacement theology could not be considered a part of Messianic Judaism.

Ever heard of British Israelism? How about Two House? Ephraimite Messianics? Sacred Namers? All of these are Messianic groups who teach replacement theology, although repackaged. You see, these groups realized that 'spiritual' replacement theology was fundamentally flawed. So what'd they do? They declared every race on Earth is a Jew, or descended from Jews, so that way there is no 'replacement' taking place.

To me, this is replacement theology simply repackaged.

While there is some truth to the idea of the Jewish Dispersion, aka... the Great Diaspora... the idea that all are Jews is just plain nonsense. It ignores historical continuity that other people groups/races were in existence when a small pocket of the Jewish community joined the Dispersion.

. And, hypocrisy is rampant in all sections of the Christian church. This is no different than Christianity as many of the sects therein are just as messy with all it's different groups, and all of the things you mentioned can be found in common Christianity.

Exactly why I don't attend a christian church OR[/i][/u] a Messianic congregation. Very little differentiates the two. The same messy-ness all around. Church in a Kippah? no thank you.

Now don't get me wrong, I'm not implying others should walk in my footsteps. That's between you and HaShem. I personally can't stomach it when I see a cross on the podium behind a messianic leader who is selling his/her books and tapes after the friday night service.

What we need is for the few observant believers whom are not crazy to stick it out, and help to organize the movement.

Many say this of christianity.

I am sticking with it, but from the outside. I have friends who are messianic, I have various places on the internet where I discuss/share theology, etc. But I'm not going to submit myself to this kind of mess right now.

Sharing our faith with unbelievers, and making disciples as we are instructed by Yeshua HaMashiach.

How about a few rhetorical questions...
1) Is the term 'disciple' unique to the NT manuscripts? If so, then what does this new term mean? If not, then what was the historical useage of the term?
2) What was it we are to share? What is the 'gospel'? And again, is "gospel" a term unique to the NT?
3) Who did Yeshua come for?

These are just some thoughts to ponder that I'm sure we will probably discuss greatly in other sections of the forum.

Shalom!
yafet

[R' Y'hoshua Moshe]

That was just one example of many. How about going out to eat and spending money after Saturday morning services? How about selling books and tapes after Friday night services? I haven't seen a single messianic congregation that doesn't do these things.

The leadership of our observant congregation does no such thing. But, I agree with you that a large majority of Messianic Judaism does this. This is grievous.

Ever heard of British Israelism? How about Two House? Ephraimite Messianics? Sacred Namers? All of these are Messianic groups who teach replacement theology, although repackaged. You see, these groups realized that 'spiritual' replacement theology was fundamentally flawed. So what'd they do? They declared every race on Earth is a Jew, or descended from Jews, so that way there is no 'replacement' taking place.

To me, this is replacement theology simply repackaged.

I would agree that these too are replacement theology, and should not be considered to be Messianic Jewish.

Now don't get me wrong, I'm not implying others should walk in my footsteps. That's between you and HaShem. I personally can't stomach it when I see a cross on the podium behind a messianic leader who is selling his/her books and tapes after the friday night service.

I hear you brother

How about a few rhetorical questions...
1) Is the term 'disciple' unique to the NT manuscripts? If so, then what does this new term mean? If not, then what was the historical useage of the term?
2) What was it we are to share? What is the 'gospel'? And again, is "gospel" a term unique to the NT?
3) Who did Yeshua come for?

Just a few things to consider...Yeshua HaMashiach did command us to proclaim Him before others (Mat.3:2, Luk.12:8). Sha'ul was thrown out of many synagouges while proclaiming Yeshua as Mashiach.

Shalom achi,

Reuel

[azumah]

I'm at least happy to hear that the Synagogue you attend has as its absolute authority. According to Paul (Galations 3:24) this will lead the Synagogue to the MESSIAH.

The conservative Synagogue in my neighborhood is anything but observant. In addition to celebrating the Moedims on different days, hiring people to clean the Synagogue on the Shabbat, and physically preparring for special events on the day of rest, the Rabbi is a 32nd degree mason and on the board of planned parenthood.

[The 614th Mitzvot]

I like this man alread. Simchat , were you on the Jews for Judaism forum a few months ago, maybe you will remember chumash613?

I completely agree. In the messianic synogogue that I go to, we act as though we were chassidim. is preached as 100%. There is no "Jewish flavor" added, but only USDA Certified Judaism. They even teach Talmud on weekdays. I love going there. The best part is that it is messianic and that we even love those who come from reformed. The rabbi (who went to a yeshiva in Boro Park and was once a Chabad leader himself) teaches that you may come in reformed, but you shouldn't stay that way. We even have goyim who come to learn. They are accepted and are not forced into conversion.

I realize how many things have been going on in the Messianic Movement. Somebody has to tell them that if you are not practicing any form of Judaism, except reformed, you are nothing, but a regular church with people who occasionally wear kipot.

[SimchatTorah]

While I've visited the site a number of times, I've never actually had an account to post over at Jews for Judaism.

sorry, wasn't me