Living in Egypt

[Nachshon]

"makhasiy ana min damah d'hana"

[Mpossoff]

Hi,

I'm in the EXACT same situation. Although I was born a Jew and raised as a Jew I am a VERY, VERY recent 'returner'.

I married a gentile who happens to be an awesome wife and great mother.

Our children were raised Catholic up until a certain point when I returned. I was saved in the Church then Hashem put it in my heart that I needed to return and start living according to His righteous standards. Personally a revelation I had was "I wasn't being and behaving like the Jew Yeshua wanted to me too". Please my intention is not to make this ethnic as I believe people have different callings.

Our children have been playing football almost the same time they were able to walk! We have two boys 9 and 10 so football is in our blood. Our boys live and breathe football 24/7/365. Also I'm a coach and have been for years!

OK so now I'm on a recent path in observance. Our boys have been sort of following and 'imitating' me on the path. I will admit that it's been a tough and rough path. Especially with my wife who is Catholic. So you can hopefully imagine how it sometimes can be an 'issue'.

I wasn't in this situation last year as I was in sort of a transitional mode from the 'church'.

Yitzchak said

I am assuming that the lifestyle is one that is new for you, and that you are slowly transitioning into. I would suggest that you sit down with your son, and explain to him your feelings, and what the scriptures say about the Sabbath. Let him make an informed decision, rather than forcing him to do something. He will never want to observe if he is forced.

Believe me I'm in the same situation. Games are on Saturdays and some Sundays.

This is a response I recently got from a fellow Messianic leader. Almost the same as Yitzchak's.

As new as you are (relatively) to this walk, my advice is to continue to let your children perform those athletic activities, and if they are convicted that they are anti- then they will stop going to games, etc. One of the serious problems with much of the " movement" is that many are closed off to societal contact. The majority of the people you see on the list homeschool their children, they do not expose them to any of the world, and many of them are ill-equipped to deal with some of the issues that I want to discuss.

Obviously, one can still be socially engaged with our without football. I suppose I lean on the "make up your own mind" side because I do not think it is right for anyone to just throw down the gauntlet and invade another's privacy. I have too much faith in you, for example, to make a well informed decision for yourself. Likewise, my sister's fiance is a collegiate football coach and he does work on Saturdays. While Baptist (at present), I would not tell him to give up his job for Shabbat concerning where he is right now. I would tell him that he needs to take this before the Lord and make the decision that is best for himself.

The issue of what to do and not do on the Sabbath is not going away. Coming to a position of comfort will not happen instantaneously. Just give it some time and be pleased at what God will do.

This was in response to my question to him.

It wouldn't necessarily be an issue if I have raised our children in from the very beginning of course.

I too on one hand understand the anti-football view on one the other I don't believe it would be in the best interests of my children to say to them that they can't play football or even I can't attend your games on the Sabbath.

As a parent I have to be able to dicern what is best for our children and their interests and at the same time be a 'spritual leader'.

Spiritually I know what is best for them which is to observe and keep the Sabbath in the lines of the article you wrote on TNN. Basically not according to what you wrote but in line with what God wants from us.

I'll be honest i'm having a battle within.

I'm not worried about what others think. I'm worried about what God thinks. I want to honor Him as best as I can and I feel I can do more but then it would 'jeopardize' the best interests of our children at this time.

It's like I don't want to come out 'with all guns loaded' and say to my family we can't do this, can't do that because of the Sabbath. They haven't been exposed to it.

Am I making sense?

Marc

[Nachshon]

I have to object to what the Messianic leader said about socialization. It's utter rot. It's the same old line that proponents of public school have been inflicting on society for years, and it is completely unfounded. What experience has shown is that children who are kept with their parents have to learn to interact not only with people their own age, but with adults aswell. It does not decrease socialization skills, but greatly increases them. Unlike conventional schoolers we homeschoolers know how to interact with people of all ages. We've interacted with our homeschooled, "Messianic" peirs, we've learned to interact with the "Messianic" adults and with those that we come in contact with in other places.
Let's hear no more about a lack of socialization.

[Mark]

Marc,

I have to agree with your friend's advice (also being a homeschool parent and completely in agreement with Nachson's statement, just not in their application here). Keeping Sabbath does not mean sitting on the wooden bench all day reciting the chatechisms. It is rest and worship; but those things are defined very uniquely by each individual. Sabbath is to be a joy and a delight. It is to say, the King of Kings is coming to your house for a visit today. Would you likely take him to a football game? Some would think that the most appropriate way to honor him. Others would take him for a hike in the forest. Some would sit out in the garden and share a glass of lemon-aide.

The word "socialization" is a hot-button for homeschoolers because it has been used as a reason not to homeschool, as Nachson pointed out, eroneously. Yet, what your friend is saying is, don't shut out the people you have cometo know and appreciate because your have come to a convictionin your faith. How much better, if it is not a conflict, to expose them to that conviction- to bring Messiah to the ball game and share Him with those who are there.

Now, there are some things that I enjoy that I just can't do on the Sabbath- not because they are wrong, just that they are not worshipful. The activity, by it's nature, doesn't draw into fellowship with the Messiah. Yet, at the same time, I don't condemn others who find no fault with these sorts of things.

It would be easier for us to have someone print out a list of dos and don'ts for Sabbath observation; butthe point is to walk in intimate communion with Adonai through Yeshua. Don't ask me if it's okay or not. Ask Him! That's simple point that your friend is trying to make, and I heartily agree.

Mark

[Nachshon]

Mark, taking your analogy of the King is coming to your house for the day, how would you treat Him? Shouldn't you yield the entire day up to getting to know Him? Shouldn't you spend the whole time doting on Melech-Ha'Owlam?
The Mitzwa is to remember the Shabbat to keep it holy. I don't think I need to explain the etymology of "holy" to you. How can we separate it from the other six days if we are doing the same activities that we do the other days? I'm not going to be ridiculous and say that you need to tear your toilet paper ahead of time, but nevertheless, it must be set apart from the rest of the week.
I don't think it is at all polite to tell the King, I know you're coming today, but we have football game. Hey, you can come along if you like. We just didn't want to give up football to spend one day out of seven to focus on Melech-Ha'Owlam.

Shalom,
Nachshon

[Yitzchak]

nachshon said:

Mark, taking your analogy of the King is coming to your house for the day, how would you treat Him? Shouldn't you yield the entire day up to getting to know Him? Shouldn't you spend the whole time doting on Melech-Ha'Owlam?
The Mitzwa is to remember the Shabbat to keep it holy. I don't think I need to explain the etymology of "holy" to you. How can we separate it from the other six days if we are doing the same activities that we do the other days? I'm not going to be ridiculous and say that you need to tear your toilet paper ahead of time, but nevertheless, it must be set apart from the rest of the week.
I don't think it is at all polite to tell the King, I know you're coming today, but we have football game. Hey, you can come along if you like. We just didn't want to give up football to spend one day out of seven to focus on Melech-Ha'Owlam.

Shalom,
Nachshon

I think we are getting off track here. Let us remember the original post that prompted this discussion.

Nobody is disputing the holiness of the Shabbat, and our observance of it. However, the OP wanted advice regarding her son and his involvement in an activity that others would consider not honoring to HaShem on this day.

We need to keep in mind that she is a newly observant believer. Her children were raised in the church, and have no background in the Sabbath and its requirements. This is the reason that Mark and I have responded as we have.

As I said before, and was reiterated here, the Sabbath should be a joy and a delight. I don't see how a child who has no knowledge of the Sabbath being told that he must stop his activity will lead him to the joys of observance. This is why we suggested sitting with her son and explaining to him why he should not be playing. It would then be his own decision as to whether it is right to continue.


Shalom,

Yitzchak

[Seeker2]

Well, I am here to report what I decided to do and how it is working out (sorry I took so long but I had to really settle on what to do and see how it went). I decided to let him play football and also to give him enough room to make decisions for himself (even if I dont agree). I noticed that the more I pushed him to do the right thing, the more he was rebellious in spirit. In addition to the football thing, he also has a job whch he works on Shabbat part of the time (friday nights and saturday afternoons at times). I am very upset about it, but if I forbid it, he rebells. The goal is to teach him that HaShem knows best, but he wont give it a chance if he is busy rebelling against me. I think he needs more time to get where I am (after all it took me alot longer than 16 years too!) and I will continue to show disappointment with bad decisions, but not fight over them. So far he has not seemed concerned about the , but me forcing him will only make him hate it. I, myself will keep it and be an example, but ultimately, this is his decision to accept the yoke of Yeshua/Adonai.