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Post by shakira on Jan 25, 2006 13:27:22 GMT -8
Salaam. I hope this is the right place for this topic. If not, I'm sorry. ;D
I would like to know what the Messianic Jewish stand is on calling Jesus "Isa" in Arabic. Also, I have heard that "Ishi" is another name for Jesus, but I'm not sure from where.
Even though it's slightly off topic, I was wondering if the Jewish people living in the Middle East call God "Allah" and whether Messianic Jews deem it all right for Arab Christians to call God "Allah" as some of them do.
Thank you very much for your answers.
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Post by Blake on Jan 26, 2006 7:38:12 GMT -8
I'm not sure what the etymology on Isa is but, Ishi would be a transliteration of Aramaic Yeshu, a shortened form of Yeshua. Ishi would be a more correct translation of the Messhiah's name. Isa is most likely a corruption of Ishi.
Many Messianics wouldn't dare call YHVH by the name of A*l*l*a*h because it is though to be pagan in origin. I'm not sure if its so bad though... YHVH is called by Baal a few times in the Old Testament, and El was a common name for the most high g*o*d in many other pagan pantheons.
Al-Lah or "The God" is no worse than using the English Speaking Christians using the english name "God".
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Post by Firestorm on Jan 26, 2006 8:19:01 GMT -8
;DI always thought that "El" and "Allah" came from the same root because Hebrew and Arabic are both Semitic languages.
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Post by Blake on Jan 26, 2006 19:10:21 GMT -8
You would be correct. Both Arabs and Jews are descendants of Avrahem, so both share similar launguages with similar roots. "El" and "Lah" correspond with eachother.
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Post by R' Y'hoshua Moshe on Feb 4, 2006 15:49:36 GMT -8
Both are technically wrong. "Yeshua" is the accurate name for our Messiah. "Ishi" would mean "my man", or "my husband" in Hebrew. "Yeshua" means "salvation" (Strongs H3444) in Hebrew. The root word for salvation from which it comes is the Hebrew rootword "Yasha" (Strongs H3467). "Isa" may be the Aramiac equivilant of the root word "Yasha". But, I wouldn't call Yeshua by "Isa". The word "allah" comes from the Hebrew root word to ascend to to rise or to go up....such as to make aliyah. The root word in question is: "alah" It basically can mean "exahlted one" with in the context of the muslim reglion. The following is the complete meaning of the word: 1) to go up, ascend, climb a) (Qal) 1) to go up, ascend 2) to meet, visit, follow, depart, withdraw, retreat 3) to go up, come up (of animals) 4) to spring up, grow, shoot forth (of vegetation) 5) to go up, go up over, rise (of natural phenomenon) 6) to come up (before God) 7) to go up, go up over, extend (of boundary) 8) to excel, be superior to b) (Niphal) 1) to be taken up, be brought up, be taken away 2) to take oneself away 3) to be exalted c) (Hiphil) 1) to bring up, cause to ascend or climb, cause to go up 2) to bring up, bring against, take away 3) to bring up, draw up, train 4) to cause to ascend 5) to rouse, stir up (mentally) 6) to offer, bring up (of gifts) 7) to exalt 8) to cause to ascend, offer d) (Hophal) 1) to be carried away, be led up 2) to be taken up into, be inserted in 3) to be offered e) (Hithpael) to lift oneself Although, it is a title and not necessarily a bad one...it is indeed known as the name for the god of the Islamic religion and should be avoided when referring to the G'd of Israel to avoid confusion (as they are not one in the same). I hope that helps! Reuel
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Post by Blake on Mar 6, 2006 17:43:42 GMT -8
Reuel, how come Arab Christians and Arabic Speaking Jews do not mind calling the Most High by the name of Allah?
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Post by Firestorm on Mar 7, 2006 9:04:08 GMT -8
???Etymology aside, I think the term "Allah" has become so inextricably associated with Islam in the minds of most of the global population that believers only create confusion by using it. I can't answer for Arabic speaking Christians or Jews, but personally I'd rather not muddy the waters any further.
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Post by Blake on Mar 7, 2006 17:51:51 GMT -8
"Although, it is a title and not necessarily a bad one...it is indeed known as the name for the god of the Islamic religion and should be avoided when referring to the G'd of Israel to avoid confusion (as they are not one in the same)." What grounds is there to say that Moslems do not worship the same God as Jews and Christians? "Allah" is a contraction of Al-Ilah. Ilah is directly related to the Hebrew Eloah which is one of the names used for God in the Old Testament. The Koran borrows not only much information from the Tanakh and , but Midrashic material as well. Also, the name Allah is the same name that is used in the Arabic which was completed in 1050, nearly three centuries after the rise of Islam. If Allah was a different God than YHVH, why would the Jewish scholar who composed the translation and those modern Arabic speaking Jews and Christians use the same Arabic word as his Moslem neighbors? Whats the difference between you saying Muslims worship a different God and Al Mohler claiming Jews and Muslims do not worship the same God as Christians? That is intolerence and hatred to say such things. We are taught to love our enemies, and fast for those who persecute us. Moslems may have God wrong, but they do not have the wrong God.
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Post by R' Y'hoshua Moshe on Mar 8, 2006 22:06:53 GMT -8
I am not quite sure why you are pushing for this, but the name "allah" does not appear once in the holy scriptures when describing the G'd of Yisrael...The holy men of old never used this term when describing YHVH. When describing the most high G'd they used the term "El Elyon"...not "Allah". You think that would be enough reason for you and any other worshiper of YHVH to realize that the name of the Elohim Of Yisrael is most definetely not "Allah". If they are using this as the name of G'd...they do so in error and are most likely in a state of confusion. The G'd Of Yisrael as found in the TeNaKh and the writings of the Brit Chadashah is nothing close to the false god found in the Koran. Have you ever read the Koran??...If you have you would know it totally contradicts the . Our G'd is defined by His word and Islam most certainly does not worship our G'd. Your promotion of "Allah" on this forum is not acceptable. Any further promotion of Islam, or their false god "Allah" will not be tolerated on this forum as it is a violation of the forum rules. This is your first warning regarding this. At any rate, we are getting a bit off topic... Shalom aleychem, Reuel
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Post by Yitzchak on Mar 9, 2006 5:25:37 GMT -8
As a final note, what is most important is not how Arab speaking Jews or other believers refer to G-d, but how He refers to Himself.
Reuel of course has used the name G-d most often uses for Himself in the scriptures, and that is the the G-d of Yisrael.
The other most prominent name would be the G-d of Avraham, Yitzchak, and Yaacov.
Names for G-d in the scripture, other than the YHVH, most often speak not to a sound, or word uttered, but to the nature of HaShem.
The arabic word Blake uses was never used by G-d to describe Himself as written, spoken, or in nature.
Shalom,
Yitzchak
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Post by Blake on Mar 10, 2006 4:48:47 GMT -8
Eloah (and the related majestically plural of Eloah, Elohim) are used many times in Scripture which Al-Aliyah (The Eloah) is a Arabic translation of the word.
Its important for somone to be able to refer to God in their own launguages. To people non-versed in Hebrew using to the Hebrew names of God isn't very practical and brings about many of the same problems as a Mass being performed in Latin when the common people only spoke French or English.
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Post by Blake on Mar 10, 2006 4:58:16 GMT -8
I am not quite sure why you are pushing for this, but the name "allah" does not appear once in the holy scriptures when describing the G'd of Yisrael...The holy men of old never used this term when describing YHVH. When describing the most high G'd they used the term "El Elyon"...not "Allah". You think that would be enough reason for you and any other worshiper of YHVH to realize that the name of the Elohim Of Yisrael is most definetely not "Allah". If they are using this as the name of G'd...they do so in error and are most likely in a state of confusion. The G'd Of Yisrael as found in the TeNaKh and the writings of the Brit Chadashah is nothing close to the false god found in the Koran. Have you ever read the Koran??...If you have you would know it totally contradicts the . Our G'd is defined by His word and Islam most certainly does not worship our G'd. Your promotion of "Allah" on this forum is not acceptable. Any further promotion of Islam, or their false god "Allah" will not be tolerated on this forum as it is a violation of the forum rules. This is your first warning regarding this. At any rate, we are getting a bit off topic... Shalom aleychem, Reuel I am not promoting Islam, I am promoting tolerence toward Moslems. One does not lead a lost person to the light by mocking them and their culture. We are just as responsible for bringing truth to Moslems as we are to Catholics (who worship a false pantheon of gods) and other Christians.
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Post by Yitzchak on Mar 10, 2006 11:09:05 GMT -8
I am not quite sure why you are pushing for this, but the name "allah" does not appear once in the holy scriptures when describing the G'd of Yisrael...The holy men of old never used this term when describing YHVH. When describing the most high G'd they used the term "El Elyon"...not "Allah". You think that would be enough reason for you and any other worshiper of YHVH to realize that the name of the Elohim Of Yisrael is most definetely not "Allah". If they are using this as the name of G'd...they do so in error and are most likely in a state of confusion. The G'd Of Yisrael as found in the TeNaKh and the writings of the Brit Chadashah is nothing close to the false god found in the Koran. Have you ever read the Koran??...If you have you would know it totally contradicts the . Our G'd is defined by His word and Islam most certainly does not worship our G'd. Your promotion of "Allah" on this forum is not acceptable. Any further promotion of Islam, or their false god "Allah" will not be tolerated on this forum as it is a violation of the forum rules. This is your first warning regarding this. At any rate, we are getting a bit off topic... Shalom aleychem, Reuel I am not promoting Islam, I am promoting tolerence toward Moslems. One does not lead a lost person to the light by mocking them and their culture. We are just as responsible for bringing truth to Moslems as we are to Catholics (who worship a false pantheon of gods) and other Christians. This is very true Blake, and like any other people group the way to witness to the Moslem is to show them that they require a Messiah, and that Messiah is the Yeshua. They are required to become part of the Commonwealth of Israel, and in order to do so, must recognize the G-d of Irael, the G-d of Avraham, Yitzchak, and Yaacov, and not allah. Allah, and the G-d of Israel are not the same G-d. Shabbat Shalom, Yitzchak
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Post by R' Y'hoshua Moshe on Mar 26, 2006 10:52:18 GMT -8
Shalom Blake,
I agree that we need to have tolerance towards all people with in the context of Adonai's instruction to us. We are to tolerate the people, but not their false doctrine which is found in the Koran. Showing the error of the Koran is simply contending for the truth as the G'd of Yisrael has commanded us to do and I do not view it as mocking.
Amein v'amein.
Shalom chaverim,
Reuel
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Post by Goodfeet7 on Sept 9, 2006 6:08:25 GMT -8
Hi The translation of Yeshua in Arabic is not Isa but Yasu Isa is from the aramaic translation of Esau which is Eshoo. Thank you and shalom
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