How difficult is it, really?

[Prodigal Girl]

OK I had this discussion with an Israeli couple who came to my house for dinner yesterday. Husband is from an orthodox background. He says that it is considered very, very difficult to keep the . He quoted some rabbi. So of course I had to quote (paraphrase) my Rabbi Yeshua where He made a statement to the effect that the leaders of his time were making things too difficult and complicated. I told him I was not sure that it was as difficult as many people believe. Now I am not sure I made the right response. He was interested in what I had to say anyway. He has never read the "Christian Bible".

[Mark]

Who should we believe, when put to the question: should we believe Moses or the rabbi?

Deu 30:10-14 KJV If thou shalt hearken unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to keep his commandments and his statutes which are written in this book of the law, and if thou turn unto the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul. (11) For this commandment which I command thee this day, it is not hidden from thee, neither is it far off. (12) It is not in heaven, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go up for us to heaven, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it? (13) Neither is it beyond the sea, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go over the sea for us, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it? (14) But the word is very nigh unto thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart, that thou mayest do it.

It's not that is so difficult. It is simply that we're that bad! Yet, this is why we cling to a personal Messiah: One who has born our iniquities and by whose stripes we are healed.

[Mpossoff]

Right Mark,

Hebrews 8:8 Because finding fault with them, He says: “Behold, the days are coming, says the LORD, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah—

As you said Mark the fault is with us not the .

Marc

[Prodigal Girl]

mark said:

Who should we believe, when put to the question: should we believe Moses or the rabbi?

Deu 30:10-14 KJV If thou shalt hearken unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to keep his commandments and his statutes which are written in this book of the law, and if thou turn unto the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul. (11) For this commandment which I command thee this day, it is not hidden from thee, neither is it far off. (12) It is not in heaven, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go up for us to heaven, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it? (13) Neither is it beyond the sea, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go over the sea for us, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it? (14) But the word is very nigh unto thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart, that thou mayest do it.

It's not that is so difficult. It is simply that we're that bad! Yet, this is why we cling to a personal Messiah: One who has born our iniquities and by whose stripes we are healed.

Yes, I mentioned the above section of scripture, he actually quoted it to my quite well, knew which one I was talking about, but said that rabbis interpret this verse a different way; i.e., they say that it is not saying that is not difficult to follow.

[Mark]

I'm not saying that it's not difficult to follow; but the problem is not the difficulty of the commandments but in our depravity.

Now, when look into the Talmud and begin to see the intricate layers of definition that orthodoxy has established in its understanding of , I can certainly see his point; butthe bottom line is this: rest on Sabbaths, worship at the feasts, avoid the unclean and be nice to people. How hard is that?

Today... with the people I have to deal with, with the things I am concerned abour... nigh impossible; but that's my weakness, not God's unreasonable expectations.

[Prodigal Girl]

I also think that much of the really is intended for "the group"; so for an individual that is trying to do it by him/herself, apart from the community, it IS more difficult. That is why we need each other. Doesn't work quite as well in the individualistic/independent/self-sufficient mindset of the American culture.

[Mark]

Amen!
Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised;) And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works: Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching. For if we sin willfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
(Heb 10:23-27 KJV)

[Mark]

Another verse I thought of that dispells the idea that is a great burdensome task that we must endure to please Adonai is Micah 6:8.

He hath showed thee, O man, what is good; and what doth the LORD require of thee, but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God?
(Mic 6:8 KJV)

This would not likely be an effective argument against your orthodox friend. There are a couple of directions that different teachings can take you in this.

The first is that, yes, all of is summed up in this simple statement; but that doesn't mean that it is simple. Such a position is not at all unlike the teaching of our Messiah that all of the Law and the prophets are summed up in this single phrase: love your neighbor as yourself.

The second perspective (and what is more likely from an orthodox perspective) is that there is a difference between "O man" and "O Jew": that the Noahide Laws apply to all men; but there is greater responsibility placed upon the shoulders of the Jew.

[Prodigal Girl]

Your last paragraph seems to be where my friend is coming from. I am still trying to process all of this. It seems there is indeed controversy in the messianic community concerning how much of the "law" is meant for "gentiles". I am going full steam ahead with study, trusting that it will all become clear eventually.
Anyway my friend pulled out his cell phone, showed me a picture of a rabbi with a white beard and asked me if I knew who that is. I am glad I did not follow my impulse to say "Santa"? He explained that it was somebody somebody Sneerson, and said that he had met/seen him. He has relatives that are Lubivatchers. So we talked about that for awhile. I had to go back and read more about it. Apparently my friend is quite impressed that they are "missionary-minded". He also talked about the fact that they believe that their departed leader is the Messiah. He also mentioned the fact that they teach the laws of Noah for non-Jews. Fascinating discussion.

[R' Y'hoshua Moshe]

I also think that much of the really is intended for "the group"; so for an individual that is trying to do it by him/herself, apart from the community, it IS more difficult. That is why we need each other. Doesn't work quite as well in the individualistic/independent/self-sufficient mindset of the American culture.

Amein! I see people isolate themselves all the time. You are right, was not meant to be kept by one’s self. We need each other!

The second perspective (and what is more likely from an orthodox perspective) is that there is a difference between "O man" and "O Jew": that the Noahide Laws apply to all men; but there is greater responsibility placed upon the shoulders of the Jew.

How I interpret this passage is that it was written to Yisrael and the men thereof. That is the context. But, it also applies for those whom sojourn with Yisrael. The Noachide interpretation really has no foundation in my estimation.

Shalom,

Reuel