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Post by alon on Sept 9, 2024 10:32:30 GMT -8
Ah yes, messianic Judaism is a search for truth, just get rid of all that Judaism which is wrong. You guys wonder why/complain we don't accept you as part of the Jewish community.
We believe in Yeshua. We also believe the 66 book Bible to be scripture. However we interpret it differently. Every word of scripture must agree with what came before. So if one is reading Rav Shaul (Paul) and think he is speaking against Torah, either it is not scripture or you are wrong. We choose option B and dig deep to find out why. The answer is usually the church fathers lied, and everyone since believed them until we came along. We just don't fit either mold- Jewish or Christian. And both think we are a threat. The truth is I am only a threat to one who is already searching; already interested in finding the truth. As it is written (in the Renewed Covenant/popularly but erroneously called the New Testament) I stand ready to share my faith in season and out (paraphrased).
So if you think we are seeking acceptance from either camp, you are mistaken. Some probably do, but by far most in my experience do not. I certainly don't. Now agreement is another matter. Anyone truly searching the truth would be in agreement, even if we disagree on some points. An example would be that since the MJ movement many Christians are looking deeper into scripture, and some have the courage to speak out against the "party line." Do a search for Chad Byrd (hope I got the spelling right on Byrd/Burd/Bird ...). But he has some very good insights for a christian. His methods are often purely MJ. This kind of thng would never have occurred when I was growing up in the '50's and '60's. However due mostly to the Messianic movement it is becoming more popular today.
So no, i not only don't wonder, I don't care. Not trying to offend, but to be honest I just don't need the distraction of trying to please everyone. However I will always take the time to discuss with anyone the things of God. |
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Post by Eliana on Sept 9, 2024 10:51:10 GMT -8
Ah yes, messianic Judaism is a search for truth, just get rid of all that Judaism which is wrong. You guys wonder why/complain we don't accept you as part of the Jewish community.
We believe in Yeshua. We also believe the 66 book Bible to be scripture. However we interpret it differently. Every word of scripture must agree with what came before. So if one is reading Rav Shaul (Paul) and think he is speaking against  , either it is not scripture or you are wrong. We choose option B and dig deep to find out why. The answer is usually the church fathers lied, and everyone since believed them until we came along. We just don't fit either mold- Jewish or Christian. And both think we are a threat. The truth is I am only a threat to one who is already searching; already interested in finding the truth. As it is written (in the Renewed Covenant/popularly but erroneously called the New Testament) I stand ready to share my faith in season and out (paraphrased).
So if you think we are seeking acceptance from either camp, you are mistaken. Some probably do, but by far most in my experience do not. I certainly don't. Now agreement is another matter. Anyone truly searching the truth would be in agreement, even if we disagree on some points. An example would be that since the MJ movement many Christians are looking deeper into scripture, and some have the courage to speak out against the "party line." Do a search for Chad Byrd (hope I got the spelling right on Byrd/Burd/Bird ...). But he has some very good insights for a christian. His methods are often purely MJ. This kind of thng would never have occurred when I was growing up in the '50's and '60's. However due mostly to the Messianic movement it is becoming more popular today.
So no, i not only don't wonder, I don't care. Not trying to offend, but to be honest I just don't need the distraction of trying to please everyone. However I will always take the time to discuss with anyone the things of God. Well, your honesty is incredibly refreshing. Most messianic "Jews" do try to pass themselves as Jewish and want the same right of return to Israel as authentic Jewish people. They also dress themselves up as rabbis and their buildings like synagogues, which I consider very dishonest. They also constantly tell us they are Jewish also in their endless quest to convert us. You are not in the mainstream of even your own stated denomination. Why even call yourself a Jew when you admit you have no interest in following any aspect of Judaism?I'm not a Christian so their theological opinions are irrelevant to me, therefore I am not going to look up Christian pastors. |
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Post by alon on Sept 9, 2024 11:30:56 GMT -8
Halakha is Jewish law based on the , written and oral. Orthodox is not a "subset"... conservative and reform "Jews" do not accept the divinity of halakha. You speak as if not believing in Jesus was a doctrine or codified in some way, as opposed to the fact we don't consider him because he doesn't fit the criteria. You weren't kidding about being raised secular and atheist, because you don't know squat about Judaism. According to Abraham Cohen in his book Everyman's Talmud, Halacha varries from sect to sect, location to location. While Torah is immutable, halacha can be changed. It is set by appropriate authority based on Torah, but it makes Torah applicable to everyone in every time and place. A shaliach tzibur after having been given his smicha was able to go out and evangelize. He could set halacha and rule on its application. On traveling north would necessarily have a somewhat different halacha than one in ha'eretz. If, for example one's family was freezing you'd light a fire on Shabbat. The mitzvah of protecting the life and health of one's family would be the higher of the mitzvoth.
Halacha was not set in stone for everyone until after the Roman Diaspora when the rabbonim were afraid of losing Judaism altogether. More insults. If you're going to talk about what is and isn't halakha perhaps you should read about it sometime. I'll discuss Jesus as much as you like, you just won't like what I have to say and I'll be banned in short order. Not meant to insult, but I think you also have a misguided view of halacha. And being Gentile I too probably have some misconceptions. If you want to discuss it we both might benefit. Firstly Jews convert to Christianity all the time and most of them haven't been ejected from their families. What a load of garbage. As a matter of fact, often when a Jew converts to Christianity they leave the community and stop talking to their families which is one of the reasons "Jews" for Jesus/Messianic "Jews" are do disliked. True about them not being ejected. My wife is German Jewish. Her father and uncle escaped Nazi Germany about 2 steps ahead of the Brown Shirts. She was a late surprise. She still talks to most of the family she has, though some were so unkind as to have driven her and both her much older sisters to convert. But none were ostracized completely. And I have never felt anything but accepted by the immediate family (her high strung Polish step mother being the exception).
Secondly halakha is based on the and is in fact somewhat malleable, people just disagree on how much so. Yes, I believe very malleable. Just it cannot contradict Torah in any way.
If your mother is Jewish then you are only Jewish in name, (technically an apostate), and are self admitted to having never practiced. You don't know anything about our rules, history or our culture and make it obvious. I am constantly reminded by my wife that I do not understand Judaism. However history is history, and I have a pretty good grasp of that.
No, the ultimate difficulty is obnoxious people like you. Moderator note: please tone it down a little; try not to be so offended. Questor is dealing with a severe head injury, which has left him dealing with somewhat of a reduced capacity to understand and sort things out. He writes in an attempt to do so. So I do not think he is being intentionally insulting. I think you'll find him open to any discussion concerning Judaism. |
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Post by alon on Sept 9, 2024 14:15:32 GMT -8
Well, your honesty is incredibly refreshing. Most messianic "Jews" do try to pass themselves as Jewish and want the same right of return to Israel as authentic Jewish people. They also dress themselves up as rabbis and their buildings like synagogues, which I consider very dishonest. They also constantly tell us they are Jewish also in their endless quest to convert us. You are not in the mainstream of even your own stated denomination. Why even call yourself a Jew when you admit you have no interest in following any aspect of Judaism?I'm not a Christian so their theological opinions are irrelevant to me, therefore I am not going to look up Christian pastors.
I will admit, I have dealt with some craziness in MJ. Calling themselves Jews, playing dress-up. etc. Remember as Gentiles we are searching for our place. How should we dress? Act? Worship? Some do copy Judaism because, after all our name says Judaism. I do not find that a compelling reason for anything. My theology is simple: read Torah, do what it says. Read the TNK, do what it says. Read the Renewed Covenant, interpret it correctly, with new eyes and do what it says. The old defines the new; the old interprets the new. And all scripture must agree.
I do not dress like Jews just to do it. I do wear tzitzyot on a tallit qatan, worn inside my shirt. I do not wear a tallit gadol except when attending someplace where they require it. Mine is simple; nothing fancy to call attention.
I gave Chad Byrd's name just as an example. Didn't figure you'd follow him. I don't, but when I come across him I do enjoy his take on things. Don't always agree, but then again I don't have to in order to learn a little.
Just remember, if Judaism is fractured, Messianism is moreso. You are going to find all kinds. Just stay away from the real crazies like Sacred Names and Ebionites, all trying to fly the Messianic flag. They aren't, but they won't tell you that right away. And if they try to tell you about Kabballah, I promise they don't have a clue. I only know enough to recognize it when I hear it. There are those who try to "out Jew the Jews," and I've had to confront one such person in my own qahal. We have our problems like anyone. But they are the exception. Like I say, I am here for the truth in scripture. And when you are shown, whether by the Ruach or by another person. it is worth all the work, time, and effort. It is pure joy! |
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Post by Questor on Sept 9, 2024 18:11:41 GMT -8
Damaged I may be, taking what is said exactly as it strikes me, but I do try not to say anything that is deliberately offensive to anyone.
Alas, I do say what I think, and that may be offensive to others.
For those I have offended, I can only hope they will say why what I said offended them, so that I may explain my viewpoint in different terms.
Simply being in disagreement with anyone should not be taken as an attack, but merely an observation to be disagreed with, thus opening further discourse.
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Post by alon on Sept 11, 2024 18:54:53 GMT -8
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- there are 70 faces to 
