|
|
Post by garrett on Sept 11, 2022 15:14:44 GMT -8
I've been hesitant to post about this. I'm not sure why, I guess the whole thing leaves a bad taste in my mouth. I'll try to be brief since I'm not sure what the ultimate question is....
Here goes: From time to time I come across topics and comments about "the fake Jews." References to the Khazarian mafia, statements that the Ashkenazim are fake.....it goes on and on.
The internet provides us with everyone's opinion. But what do you (anyone reading this) make of this?
I even hear people talking of the holocaust being a hoax. The majority of these topics are coupled with a very Jewish hatred type of sentiment. And a lot of the vile things that are spoken are coming from people who profess to be christians, who also intimate the "evils" of Judaism. Many think the Jews are cast aside, Jesus made their religion for them and all Jews will die in the fires and horrors of the time of Jacob's Trouble.
I hear of resentment towards the nation of Israel for influencing and controlling much of what is happening in the world. I don't doubt the corruption in any national government throughout the world so, maybe there's some truth in that.
I know hasatan loves using the Jew to corrupt or destroy all things that are good, which come from God. What a fantastic insult to the Lord. And of course this happens. But I'm seeing an anti-jew sentiment like never before - the real kind, not the "woe is me, someone doesn't like me, they must hate Jews" kind. And it comes across as foolish and ignorant as any type of racism....where you see some people doing something terrible and decide to hate the whole bunch.
These khazarians, the alleged fake jews, who are they? Are they of "the synagogue of satan" as so many say?
I wish this were written in better form but I can't think of another way to pose these thoughts...
garrett
|
|
|
|
Post by alon on Sept 11, 2022 20:53:40 GMT -8
I've been hesitant to post about this. I'm not sure why, I guess the whole thing leaves a bad taste in my mouth. I'll try to be brief since I'm not sure what the ultimate question is.... Here goes: From time to time I come across topics and comments about "the fake Jews." References to the Khazarian mafia, statements that the Ashkenazim are fake.....it goes on and on. The state of Khazar was conquered by the Rus in the 10th cen CE. It was part of what is now Turkey. It sat on some very major trade routes and was a buffer between Muslim, Christian, and pagan cultures in the region. So while I do not know the entire etiology of how there came to be (or was thought to be) a "mafia' like organization based there after its fall, I can certainly see how such a myth could develop. Possibly there is even some truth to it all; except the part about its being controlled by Jews. Given the hatred for Jews by all concerned parties I kind of doubt that part. But when haters hate, they don't have much sense. All I can tell you there.
As to the Ashkenazi Jews, I've talked about them before. They are NOT fake. Their ancestors were mostly Eastern Europeans who converted to Judaism. My wife's family are Ashkenazi. Judaism has from the Exodus to today never been about race. It is about faith, and anyone can join the Jewish faith. Like most converts, they were/are a bit extreme in their views. But I like passionate people, so ...
The internet provides us with everyone's opinion. But what do you (anyone reading this) make of this? Most Jews think Messianics are out to convert them. And don't get me wrong, if a Jew were to ask I'd tell them anything they want to know; answer any questions and, yes, with the goal they would be drawn to make a decision for Yeshua. But that is not why I do this. I am here for the truth. But then there are them Christians- you know, the folks I grew up with and know and deal with daily. Frankly, I have FAR more opportunities to talk with them and witness to them and maybe even convert them. Failing conversion, perhaps I can quash some of the conspiracy theories that somehow always involve a Jew or two (or more). Maybe I can't change their mind, but if I challenge them and show them for fools then perhaps I can keep someone else from falling into their insanity. So really, the Jews should be happy we Meshiachim are about! But, if the only Jew that ever likes me is my wife (and her family are at least somewhat accepting)- but if they never like/love/or even tolerate me , it does not matter. I love both Israel and the Jewish people NOT because they love/like/etc me, but because the Almighty chose them!!! End*of*story! I even hear people talking of the holocaust being a hoax. The majority of these topics are coupled with a very Jewish hatred type of sentiment. And a lot of the vile things that are spoken are coming from people who profess to be christians, who also intimate the "evils" of Judaism. Many think the Jews are cast aside, Jesus made their religion for them and all Jews will die in the fires and horrors of the time of Jacob's Trouble. Unfortunately without Yeshua, yes, they (and a whole lot more Gentiles- especially the ones who hate the Jews) will suffer the second death. I say that with a heavy heart though. It saddens me to think of it. The vile hatred comes from the same place as all the other lies we were told in churches around the world- the church fathers. Most of them were virulent anti-Semites (as well as unrepentant pagans). That is why exposing the errors in Christian doctrine is so important. Once they see there are errors, and that in many cases these were intentional, then they can start to question their views on Jews and Judaism. It is as much for the salvation of the Christian as it is for the sake of the Jew. Don't get me wrong. All nor even most Christians are NOT like that, and I never tell anyone where the line is demarcating their salvation. But without Yeshua, and the farther you are from Torah, the more danger you are in. And when you hate the people God chose to show Himself to the world; the people through which our Messiah and Savior came, I'd say you've crossed into some dangerous waters there. Add to that Elohim said:"I will bless those who bless you, and I will curse anyone who dishonors you. All of the families of the earth will be blessed in you.”
(Genesis 12:3 Evangelical Heritage Version)That's a better translation than most. The Hebrew says God will curse anyone who "makes light" of the Jews! I tremble to think of what is in store then for those who hate the Jews, who cheer as othrs attack them, or for the attackers themselves. I wouldn't want to be even associated with the Nazis, Islam, or Communism! Or for that matter many so called Christian groups.
Just remember, anyone can try to call themselves Messianic, and many false froups do. It is the same with Christianity. There are Christian orgs, and then there are those flying the flag but serving ha'satan. And as we near the end or go through another time of troubles typifying the end this will all get worse. Keep your eyes on Yeshua, your heart attuned to God (One and the same) or you'll be swept away by the dragon's tail (Rev 12:4). I hear of resentment towards the nation of Israel for influencing and controlling much of what is happening in the world. I don't doubt the corruption in any national government throughout the world so, maybe there's some truth in that. Israel has enough problems, and I doubt their ability to influence the world. If indeed they had that power, they certainly are not using it effectively! Don't be distracted by the thoughts of idiots. Try to educate them, maybe even persuade and convert them. But in the end all you can do is leave them to pursue their own destruction (unless you do persuade them- in which case you are doing better than I am). I know hasatan loves using the Jew to corrupt or destroy all things that are good, which come from God. What a fantastic insult to the Lord. Ha'satan loves slandering the Name of the Most High, and he really loves using anyone who calls themselves by His name to do it! This includes Jews, Christians, or Messianics. I can't control how anyone else guards their witness. All I can do is watch over my own and share it whenever possible. And of course this happens. But I'm seeing an anti-jew sentiment like never before - the real kind, not the "woe is me, someone doesn't like me, they must hate Jews" kind. And it comes across as foolish and ignorant as any type of racism....where you see some people doing something terrible and decide to hate the whole bunch. I agree, but all we can do is arm ourselves with the truth; with knowledge of the good Israel and the Jews as a whole do. Share that when we can to offset the idiocy of the anti-Semites.
These khazarians, the alleged fake jews, who are they? Are they of "the synagogue of satan" as so many say? The "Synagogue of (ha')satan" (Rev 2:9,3:9) were people claiming to be Jews, but who were not. This is one reason I am careful to say "I am a believer in Messianic Judaism." Tells you what I believe, but makes no claims to being Jewish. If asked I'll say yes, when I accepted Yeshua I was adopted, grafted onto the Jewish rootstock. But I make no claim to being genetically Jewish or Jewish by ritual conversion to any mainstream sect. Ani Meshichi. That's it.
The actual meaning of that phrase has been argued for centuries, and I've heard many sermons and teachings which have their own supporting historical "facts." But really, it's all a bit confusing. Suffice to say that in the 1st cen CE there were many who said they were Jews, probably to gain some credibility with the plethora of new believers. Kind of like a 1st cen version of the TV evangelist trying to get you to follow him and, of course, support his ministry financially. I wish this were written in better form but I can't think of another way to pose these thoughts... Nah, you did ok. And these are questions that needed to be raised. Thanks.
garrett and alon |
|
|
|
Post by septembersrain on Sept 13, 2022 9:16:06 GMT -8
I'm new here. I've got an ugly story and past but I used to be hostile towards a lot of "Christians". Then The Lord Jesus (Yeshua), God saved me. Now I'm seeing Catholics and New Age Christians hurting the Jewish over and over. I finally found why I'm so hostile. They are like my anti-G-D mother was. No matter if Jews believe in Yeshua, this type of antisemitism is horrendous. Idol worship, replacing the Jewish, it's just so very dystopian end days.
Worst part is that the people who see this are screaming out "STOP!" but we are the ones they pin their hate on.
I really hope I didn't violate any rules here. I'm a nobody.
|
|
|
|
Post by alon on Sept 13, 2022 13:55:52 GMT -8
I'm new here. I've got an ugly story and past but I used to be hostile towards a lot of "Christians". Then The Lord Jesus (Yeshua), God saved me. Now I'm seeing Catholics and New Age Christians hurting the Jewish over and over. I finally found why I'm so hostile. They are like my anti-G-D mother was. No matter if Jews believe in Yeshua, this type of antisemitism is horrendous. Idol worship, replacing the Jewish, it's just so very dystopian end days. Worst part is that the people who see this are screaming out "STOP!" but we are the ones they pin their hate on. I really hope I didn't violate any rules here. I'm a nobody.
Many of us when we came to Messianism were angry at Christianity for one reason or another. For me, it was all the lies of the church fathers that they perpetuated for centuries. Then it dawned on me I too had taught those lies to others. It took a long time and God's leading to get me to question all I'd been taught. So my anger has abated and been replaced by a genuine concern.
Many churches are becoming more open to questions and many pastors looking harder at what they preach. I believe this is due to the Messianic movements' influences. Regardless I can see the hand of the Almighty moving in the churches. Our responsibility is to be ready in season and out to proclaim the truth. Then it s between they and God what happens next.
There are however still many churches and Christians who deny our message out of hand, who hate us because they see us as a threat, and who will attack us at every opportunity. My only advice there is to be sound in your doctrine and knowledgable in your Bible and try to keep your arguments at least based there. Point out personal attacks as a diversionary tactic and ask them to defend their views biblically. That is where your advantage lies. I've argued with pastors who had Masters Degrees and put them to flight; and all I did was let them name the scripture on which their doctrine was based and then say "Let's read that in context." Works almost every time. But be ready when it doesn't, because some are astute enough to see what you are about and knowledgable enough to trip you up. If that happens just use it as training. Do your research for next time. God placed you there for a reason, and as it turns out it was not so you could convert him. Just don't allow one loss to cause you to lose faith.
And yes, these may well be the end times. Or they may just be a time typical of the end. Either way, it is (I think) about to get rough. Just keep your eyes on Yeshua. Trust in Him, even unto death.
Do you have a Messianic congregation where you are? Or one at least close enough you can go there often? |
|
|
|
Post by septembersrain on Sept 16, 2022 23:12:05 GMT -8
I'm new here. I've got an ugly story and past but I used to be hostile towards a lot of "Christians". Then The Lord Jesus (Yeshua), God saved me. Now I'm seeing Catholics and New Age Christians hurting the Jewish over and over. I finally found why I'm so hostile. They are like my anti-G-D mother was. No matter if Jews believe in Yeshua, this type of antisemitism is horrendous. Idol worship, replacing the Jewish, it's just so very dystopian end days. Worst part is that the people who see this are screaming out "STOP!" but we are the ones they pin their hate on. I really hope I didn't violate any rules here. I'm a nobody.
Many of us when we came to Messianism were angry at Christianity for one reason or another. For me, it was all the lies of the church fathers that they perpetuated for centuries. Then it dawned on me I too had taught those lies to others. It took a long time and God's leading to get me to question all I'd been taught. So my anger has abated and been replaced by a genuine concern.
Many churches are becoming more open to questions and many pastors looking harder at what they preach. I believe this is due to the Messianic movements' influences. Regardless I can see the hand of the Almighty moving in the churches. Our responsibility is to be ready in season and out to proclaim the truth. Then it s between they and God what happens next.
There are however still many churches and Christians who deny our message out of hand, who hate us because they see us as a threat, and who will attack us at every opportunity. My only advice there is to be sound in your doctrine and knowledgable in your Bible and try to keep your arguments at least based there. Point out personal attacks as a diversionary tactic and ask them to defend their views biblically. That is where your advantage lies. I've argued with pastors who had Masters Degrees and put them to flight; and all I did was let them name the scripture on which their doctrine was based and then say "Let's read that in context." Works almost every time. But be ready when it doesn't, because some are astute enough to see what you are about and knowledgable enough to trip you up. If that happens just use it as training. Do your research for next time. God placed you there for a reason, and as it turns out it was not so you could convert him. Just don't allow one loss to cause you to lose faith.
And yes, these may well be the end times. Or they may just be a time typical of the end. Either way, it is (I think) about to get rough. Just keep your eyes on Yeshua. Trust in Him, even unto death.
Do you have a Messianic congregation where you are? Or one at least close enough you can go there often? I apologize for my delay in response, it is rude. That said, thank you so much for replying. I tend to be worried I'll hurt another fellow believer in the word, light, and way. Be a false teacher. I definitely don't want to do that. It's true though. It feels... Anti-semitic. The jokes are eye opening. No, you don't replace the Jewish! No, Yeshua wouldn't have come and said to forget Moshe completely. Definitely hasn't stopped loving his people nor Israel either! Where do they get this insanity of ideas from?!? I can only pray that I'll be of good judgement through trusting in his wisdom not by my works. I have only found one community. I wish I knew my husband accepted that I want to go to a Synagogue, not another Church that barely reads Scripture. Leads by emotions, not Biblical Doctrine. Not even friends and family understand why this matters so much to me. "Who are my mother and brothers?" Matthew 12:48-50 comes to mind. All I can do is show my husband I understand faith but if it was just about that, the way would be wide. The Bible definitely doesn't teach that and he's head of household. Fine line for standing firm yet obedient, so I'm definitely getting my mental strength exercise! Romans 12:3 For I say through the grace that was given me, to everyone who is among you, not to think of yourself more highly than you ought to think; but to think reasonably, as God has apportioned to each person a measure of faith. Any suggestions are very welcome. Is there a preferred version? I bounce between WMB and CJB. I use the KJV (Not new edits) and a free bible version in an app for reference if I'm unable to fully grasp a passage. You've been so graciously kind to me. I cannot express my gratitude enough. Shabbat Shalom, Lucia |
|
|
|
Post by alon on Sept 18, 2022 9:52:26 GMT -8
I apologize for my delay in response, it is rude. That said, thank you so much for replying.
One thing: often when you say "Messianic 'Judaism'" all they seem to hear is the 'Judaism' part. You then become their 'expert' on all things Jewish. This happened to me even with people who'd known me a long time- knew I was raised Southern Baptist and had only recently converted to MJ. People are strange sometimes. That is one reason I started telling people "I am a believer in Messianic Judaism" and not just that "I'm Messianic" or worse "I'm Jewish" (as one rabbi I studied under wanted me to say). Telling them "I am a believer in Messianic Judaism" tends to give more opportunity to explain that I believe in the entire Bible and I practice a Judaic "form" of faith," and what those mean. I treat the jokes, comments, questions, etc. all as an opportunity- an opening for me to explain. I don't beat anyone up with my Bible (though I have been accused of that- the specific accusation from one was I use scripture as a "sledge Hammer," because everything he said I countered with "let's look at that in context."). However if they 'open the door,'well, then all restraints are off until they say "no more." No sense telling someone if they do not want to hear. But when they open the door, even unintentionally, then they are usually more receptive (or at least attentive). Most who've come here have have had that experience. When I first started I though I was the only Messianic in 3 counties here! And I almost was (hence my name, "alon," which is also Hebrew for 'oak'). But before long I found a few scattered believers, though not all were close to what I believed. Then a few communities started, two of which were pretty close in beliefs and one rabbi came to a town close enough I could go there each week. The other grew and became closer to my own beliefs, and I now worship there. So things slowly got better. If the community you've found is sound on the basics (eternal deity of Yeshua, salvation by grace through face as a constant from Adam to now, etc.) then you are lucky. Well, I'll state the obvious anyhow: you have an earthly family and a spiritual family. Who the second family is will depend on who you see as believers. That can change as you grow. To me, I will not say where the line is demarcating anyone's salvation. Some Christians show all the fruits of the Spirit much more than me, so should I say they are not "saved?" No, I just say that without Yeshua and the farther they are from Torah, the more danger they are in. And obviously without Yeshua (they will likely call Him 'Jesus') they are not saved at all. And those who claim to be Messianic but believe Yeshua was/is a created being I do not consider as brothers or sisters. They are not Messianic at all, but are in fact one kind or another of Ebionite (which they hate being pointed out, but I never hesitate to do so). Yeshua is God eternal, and so I have more in common with Trinitarians than with Ebionites. They are truly "wolves in sheeps clothing" as so many (every one I've met at least initially does) claim to be either Christian of Messianic. They are therefore liars from the start- a fruit of the 'wong spirit.' So everyone has to answer the question "Who are my mother and brothers?" for themselves. All I can advise is use good judgement and discernment. Prayerfully "Test the spirits," using the Word. And never be afraid to reevaluate as you learn more.
Good scriptural reference! Those would be your "spiritual family." Keep praying for your earthly family that they will join you, but don't think them lost if they don't. It took a long time for my wife to see I was serious; that this was not a passing "phase" of some kind. The more faithful I became (it was a process) the more accepting that I was in this for the long haul she became. she still does not believe in MJ, however she has become much more practical in her scriptural interpretation. That is a witness to the Christians she runs into in church and study groups. We talk, and she studies the Word for herself, often helping me see things I'd missed, or confirming things I had been looking at. So perhaps God has her there and me as a Messianic for His own purposes. All I can do is keep my witness faithful (hard to do as she is witness to ALL my many flaws- but I manage somehow) and trust HaShem with the rest.
If you can, go to synagogue (or whatever the local group calls themselves) on Shabbat and church with your family on Sunday. As you said, your husband was appointed by God as spititual head of the family. However there is also the fact you are responsible to do as God said before doing what any person says, even your husband. There will be many compromises, but try to keep Shabbat the best you can. Learning to do that will be a process, so don't beat yourself up over not being able to do something. Just try to learn how to deal with things as you go.
A good example is food preparation. As much as possible, make Shabbat meals on Erev Shabbat (Friday), then at sundown Friday to sundown Saturday do as little 'work' as possible. Yo will have to either cook or warm some things on Shabbat from time to time, but do it as little as possible. It's a difficult one for many women, but do the best you can and let grace take care of the times you cannot.
There will be many times you may have to make a choice about things on Shabbat, since the world is on a "Lords Day (Sunday)" schedule. So many things will be done on Saturday. You may have to (for example) take the kids to sports events on Saturday. God established families as the core of His belief system. So I do at times go to family functions on Shabbat (like birthday parties for the grandkids). Not going would, I think send the wrong witness to the kids. However I do not participate for adults, nor do I allow then to throw me parties, and they respect that. Sometimes it is a fine line we walk, and difficult to not step over one way or the other. Many Messianics will not go to any birthday parties nor will they cook on Shabbat. Those tend to be people whose entire household are Meshiachim. I respect that a lot, but do not hold either myself or other Messianics to that standard. We are all in a different place in our walk, and all have different circumstances with which we deal. Another good scripture. Sometimes Messianics can think themselves better than Christians or Jews (though I have not run into many who think like that of Judaism). And it is always easy to get into the "Whose More Spiritual" game, whether Christian, Messianic, or Jewish). Just guard yourself from that attitude and refuse to 'play the game.' Which you seem to have a handle on already.
Personal preferences varry, and all translations have their problems. I like the ESV and NASB The ESV is the most readable version I've seen, and the NASB is more "honest." Both hold as close to the literal as possible, however all translations are more transliterations. They are all written so you can understand, but that mostly means the translators try to get accross what they think the text meant. This all too often means what they were taught it means, which goes back to what the 'church fathers' said they meant. And too many (most) of them were anti-Semites and unrepentant pagans. This is where we get so much of the "Replacement Theology" and other doctrines of hs'satan from. I also like the NKJV, the CJB, the OJB, the JPS Tenach, the Stones Tenach, and Green's Interlinear. Those are just a few I have on my shelf and use most often. But the Jewish Tenach's (TNK, or Old Testaments) will obviously require one kind of discernment, and the Christian Bibles another. Even the Messianic ones require discernment. The CJB for example was a one man effort to translate, and so will be somewhat limited and a lot left out as no one man knows it all (though Dr. Stern did an admirable job). Also he is Two House and Two Torah, so that has to be factored in.
The KJV has a lot of errors, but at times does get closer to the truth than other translations. One problem is the language it uses is 'poetic,' but was outdated when the KJV was translated. Another problem is it was done at a time England and "King James" were forcing Jews to leave, so it was not a "Jewish friendly" book, at all! And as you already know (judging by your posts) that is not a Godly stance; and so not a Godly way to translate His Word!
Whatever translation you use, you'll find good and bad and will have to study and use discernment.
Just hang in there. The more people see you are serious, the more they will either respect what you do or just start phasing out the relationship. True friends will remain friends, but will not be able to include you in many activities. For example, in the South you may not be invited to many "Pig Pickens," but if you do go just leave the pork alone and eat the corn on the cob and/or other veggies. It does get easier, but it can be a lonely road. That is one reason the parent synagogue here hosts this forum.
I pray you will remain strong in the faith. But if you falter, never think you cannot return. There is always grace and forgiveness when we either cannot do something, are learning, or when we fall away and then repent. We serve a gracious God, not a demanding monster as He is so often (intentionally by some, unintentionally by others) portrayed. My father was a hell-fire-and-brimstone Southern Baptist preacher of the old school, so I got a lot of the latter, though sometimes balanced with the love and always with the grace part of the message. Whatever your background or wherever you are at, we tend to dig deeper for the real meaning of the Bible and what God was saying through His prophets and, at times priests and later shaliachim (Representatives of the Assembly and those who were sent to establish assemblies and could make halachic rulings- called "Apostles" in the NT).
V'at, (and you),
Dan/alon |
|
|
|
Post by septembersrain on Sept 28, 2022 9:54:41 GMT -8
I apologize for my delay in response, it is rude. That said, thank you so much for replying.
One thing: often when you say "Messianic 'Judaism'" all they seem to hear is the 'Judaism' part. You then become their 'expert' on all things Jewish. This happened to me even with people who'd known me a long time- knew I was raised Southern Baptist and had only recently converted to MJ. People are strange sometimes. That is one reason I started telling people "I am a believer in Messianic Judaism" and not just that "I'm Messianic" or worse "I'm Jewish" (as one rabbi I studied under wanted me to say). Telling them "I am a believer in Messianic Judaism" tends to give more opportunity to explain that I believe in the entire Bible and I practice a Judaic "form" of faith," and what those mean. I treat the jokes, comments, questions, etc. all as an opportunity- an opening for me to explain. I don't beat anyone up with my Bible (though I have been accused of that- the specific accusation from one was I use scripture as a "sledge Hammer," because everything he said I countered with "let's look at that in context."). However if they 'open the door,'well, then all restraints are off until they say "no more." No sense telling someone if they do not want to hear. But when they open the door, even unintentionally, then they are usually more receptive (or at least attentive). Most who've come here have have had that experience. When I first started I though I was the only Messianic in 3 counties here! And I almost was (hence my name, "alon," which is also Hebrew for 'oak'). But before long I found a few scattered believers, though not all were close to what I believed. Then a few communities started, two of which were pretty close in beliefs and one rabbi came to a town close enough I could go there each week. The other grew and became closer to my own beliefs, and I now worship there. So things slowly got better. If the community you've found is sound on the basics (eternal deity of Yeshua, salvation by grace through face as a constant from Adam to now, etc.) then you are lucky. Well, I'll state the obvious anyhow: you have an earthly family and a spiritual family. Who the second family is will depend on who you see as believers. That can change as you grow. To me, I will not say where the line is demarcating anyone's salvation. Some Christians show all the fruits of the Spirit much more than me, so should I say they are not "saved?" No, I just say that without Yeshua and the farther they are from  , the more danger they are in. And obviously without Yeshua (they will likely call Him 'Jesus') they are not saved at all. And those who claim to be Messianic but believe Yeshua was/is a created being I do not consider as brothers or sisters. They are not Messianic at all, but are in fact one kind or another of Ebionite (which they hate being pointed out, but I never hesitate to do so). Yeshua is God eternal, and so I have more in common with Trinitarians than with Ebionites. They are truly "wolves in sheeps clothing" as so many (every one I've met at least initially does) claim to be either Christian of Messianic. They are therefore liars from the start- a fruit of the 'wong spirit.' So everyone has to answer the question "Who are my mother and brothers?" for themselves. All I can advise is use good judgement and discernment. Prayerfully "Test the spirits," using the Word. And never be afraid to reevaluate as you learn more.
Good scriptural reference! Those would be your "spiritual family." Keep praying for your earthly family that they will join you, but don't think them lost if they don't. It took a long time for my wife to see I was serious; that this was not a passing "phase" of some kind. The more faithful I became (it was a process) the more accepting that I was in this for the long haul she became. she still does not believe in MJ, however she has become much more practical in her scriptural interpretation. That is a witness to the Christians she runs into in church and study groups. We talk, and she studies the Word for herself, often helping me see things I'd missed, or confirming things I had been looking at. So perhaps God has her there and me as a Messianic for His own purposes. All I can do is keep my witness faithful (hard to do as she is witness to ALL my many flaws- but I manage somehow) and trust HaShem with the rest.
If you can, go to synagogue (or whatever the local group calls themselves) on Shabbat and church with your family on Sunday. As you said, your husband was appointed by God as spititual head of the family. However there is also the fact you are responsible to do as God said before doing what any person says, even your husband. There will be many compromises, but try to keep Shabbat the best you can. Learning to do that will be a process, so don't beat yourself up over not being able to do something. Just try to learn how to deal with things as you go.
A good example is food preparation. As much as possible, make Shabbat meals on Erev Shabbat (Friday), then at sundown Friday to sundown Saturday do as little 'work' as possible. Yo will have to either cook or warm some things on Shabbat from time to time, but do it as little as possible. It's a difficult one for many women, but do the best you can and let grace take care of the times you cannot.
There will be many times you may have to make a choice about things on Shabbat, since the world is on a "Lords Day (Sunday)" schedule. So many things will be done on Saturday. You may have to (for example) take the kids to sports events on Saturday. God established families as the core of His belief system. So I do at times go to family functions on Shabbat (like birthday parties for the grandkids). Not going would, I think send the wrong witness to the kids. However I do not participate for adults, nor do I allow then to throw me parties, and they respect that. Sometimes it is a fine line we walk, and difficult to not step over one way or the other. Many Messianics will not go to any birthday parties nor will they cook on Shabbat. Those tend to be people whose entire household are Meshiachim. I respect that a lot, but do not hold either myself or other Messianics to that standard. We are all in a different place in our walk, and all have different circumstances with which we deal. Another good scripture. Sometimes Messianics can think themselves better than Christians or Jews (though I have not run into many who think like that of Judaism). And it is always easy to get into the "Whose More Spiritual" game, whether Christian, Messianic, or Jewish). Just guard yourself from that attitude and refuse to 'play the game.' Which you seem to have a handle on already.
Personal preferences varry, and all translations have their problems. I like the ESV and NASB The ESV is the most readable version I've seen, and the NASB is more "honest." Both hold as close to the literal as possible, however all translations are more transliterations. They are all written so you can understand, but that mostly means the translators try to get accross what they think the text meant. This all too often means what they were taught it means, which goes back to what the 'church fathers' said they meant. And too many (most) of them were anti-Semites and unrepentant pagans. This is where we get so much of the "Replacement Theology" and other doctrines of hs'satan from. I also like the NKJV, the CJB, the OJB, the JPS Tenach, the Stones Tenach, and Green's Interlinear. Those are just a few I have on my shelf and use most often. But the Jewish Tenach's (TNK, or Old Testaments) will obviously require one kind of discernment, and the Christian Bibles another. Even the Messianic ones require discernment. The CJB for example was a one man effort to translate, and so will be somewhat limited and a lot left out as no one man knows it all (though Dr. Stern did an admirable job). Also he is Two House and Two , so that has to be factored in.
The KJV has a lot of errors, but at times does get closer to the truth than other translations. One problem is the language it uses is 'poetic,' but was outdated when the KJV was translated. Another problem is it was done at a time England and "King James" were forcing Jews to leave, so it was not a "Jewish friendly" book, at all! And as you already know (judging by your posts) that is not a Godly stance; and so not a Godly way to translate His Word!
Whatever translation you use, you'll find good and bad and will have to study and use discernment.
Just hang in there. The more people see you are serious, the more they will either respect what you do or just start phasing out the relationship. True friends will remain friends, but will not be able to include you in many activities. For example, in the South you may not be invited to many "Pig Pickens," but if you do go just leave the pork alone and eat the corn on the cob and/or other veggies. It does get easier, but it can be a lonely road. That is one reason the parent synagogue here hosts this forum.
I pray you will remain strong in the faith. But if you falter, never think you cannot return. There is always grace and forgiveness when we either cannot do something, are learning, or when we fall away and then repent. We serve a gracious God, not a demanding monster as He is so often (intentionally by some, unintentionally by others) portrayed. My father was a hell-fire-and-brimstone Southern Baptist preacher of the old school, so I got a lot of the latter, though sometimes balanced with the love and always with the grace part of the message. Whatever your background or wherever you are at, we tend to dig deeper for the real meaning of the Bible and what God was saying through His prophets and, at times priests and later shaliachim (Representatives of the Assembly and those who were sent to establish assemblies and could make halachic rulings- called "Apostles" in the NT).
V'at, (and you),
Dan/alon I want to very much acknowledge all this you've imparted on me. I hope my like was seen as an acknowledgement, not a slight. I had an experience at a local Synagogue. Temple Beth-El. Oddly I didn't rebuke Yeshua and they didn't run me away nor did the place set on fire. Terrible joke but I've always felt scared as opposed to a regular church I'll walk into with ease. I never realized I'd never wanted to disrespect the Jewish even as an unsaved Gentile. I'm trying still to sort myself but I'm so grateful to you, and all, I interact with. I may edit this post to respond to more, but do not feel compelled to worry or address that. I'm on a cellular device using Tapatalk. Thank you, Lucia K Edit: My husband remains unconvinced. Finding a Messianic is much harder than a Jewish Synagogue. Though the one I went to was reformed? I don't even know what that means exactly but it was not male Rabbi? I was like... Um... I'm a female too but I don't know how I can say my feelings without looking self hating? I think we make great teachers, just not of men. My mom was a single mom. I wish I wasn't this kind of "independent". A lot of food restrictions hit when I'm with my in-laws. They are just lovely to me but it gets me into situations. Nobody does Sabbath Saturday or Sunday. As a prior Agnostic, I didn't know what a Christian was. Turns out I still don't. The weirdness when I play my favorite artist is a bit shocking. I'm learning Hebrew, just not at a very good pace. I do a word a day but I am ambidextrous so I can't get a comfortable rhythm writing! It's why I couldn't do Japanese Kanji. The romanization is way easier. That's such a lazy thing, so I'm trying to overcome it with the mind The Lord gave me. The KJV was my first go to. My husband reads NASB. I've found that unless I've got at least one Messianic translation with Hebrew, the translation can be lost. Though to which variation of Hebrew, it's usually the more modern. This is what I've got if I don't have my app. I need to really put my mind into things. I've got a ton to learn. Biblical and linguistic. Thank you for letting me edit. I have zero access to a decent computer with a keyboard.     |
|
|
|
Post by alon on Sept 28, 2022 20:17:11 GMT -8
"Like's" are always good. So no problem. As to helping you out, that's why we're here! Always glad to help.
The times I've gone to Jewish (as opposed to Messianic) synagogue they've been quietly respectful, if somewhat suspicious. But that was before I became Messianic. They tend to fall somewhere between resentful and hostile with us.
I never used Taptalk, but we've had people on here who did. They always seem to have problems with it. But if you need to edit, feel free.
Dan
|
|
|
|
Post by alon on Sept 29, 2022 18:11:12 GMT -8
I have the CJB on my shelf. I like it, but you have to b careful. Dr Stern is Two Torah, and it comes through every once in a while in his transliteration. [Two Torah- belief Gentiles don't have to keep al the commands of Torah.] We don't believe it incumbent on us to keep all the rabbinical rulings, which are the 613 mitzvoth; those 613 "laws" people like to throw at Meshiachim. However if it says to do or not do something in Torah (or for that matter in all the Bible) we re definitely responsible to be obedient.
The JPS is a very good translation of the TNK. I have the JPS Study Bible, which I reference often in my weekly parashot here. Edit: My husband remains unconvinced. Finding a Messianic is much harder than a Jewish Synagogue. Though the one I went to was reformed? I don't even know what that means exactly but it was not male Rabbi? I was like... Um... I'm a female too but I don't know how I can say my feelings without looking self hating? I think we make great teachers, just not of men. My mom was a single mom. I wish I wasn't this kind of "independent". Biblically you are correct. Women should not be rabbis. However Reformed Judaism is a very liberal sect. My wife is a very good teacher as well. But in a class with men in it she won't teach unless there is a man senior in the faith and church hierarchy present to take charge if there is any question.
"Independent" is not a bad thing. Most who come to MJ are independent thinkers.
A lot of food restrictions hit when I'm with my in-laws. They are just lovely to me but it gets me into situations. Nobody does Sabbath Saturday or Sunday. As a prior Agnostic, I didn't know what a Christian was. Turns out I still don't. Not to worry- most Christians don't know either. Look at all the different denominations and their interpretations of what is a Christian. And MJ is just as scattered. Being a relatively new movement there are many different ideas what it should look like. My main criteria before fellowshipping with an assembly is do they acknowledge the eternal deity of Yeshua. If not I respectfully tell them I cannot fellowship with them and leave.
As to dealing with food restrictions, that can be tough. If a food is treif to us as Messianics (not kosher to us) then I just don't eat it. This often means I temporarily become "vegetarian" by defaut. So be it. After a while most get used to it and are respectful of my beliefs. The weirdness when I play my favorite artist is a bit shocking. I'm learning Hebrew, just not at a very good pace. I do a word a day but I am ambidextrous so I can't get a comfortable rhythm writing! It's why I couldn't do Japanese Kanji. The romanization is way easier. That's such a lazy thing, so I'm trying to overcome it with the mind The Lord gave me. I tried to learn Hebrew. I can pronounce it fairly well, but speaking or reading it goes right out of my head. The KJV was my first go to. My husband reads NASB. I've found that unless I've got at least one Messianic translation with Hebrew, the translation can be lost. Though to which variation of Hebrew, it's usually the more modern. My carry Bible is the NASB. It's a good translation for a Christian effort. But as a Messianic I study with several translations (Christian, Jewish, and Messianic) and references (Interlinears, Strongs', Vines', and BDB; also several Messianic eferences).
This is what I've got if I don't have my app. I need to really put my mind into things. I've got a ton to learn. Biblical and linguistic. I once talked with a Messianic Rabbi who was from Israel (via Canada) and who was in MJ from the early 80's. He studied with some of the founders of the movement. He told me they'd all say they still had a lot to learn!
Just don't try to do it all at once. Go for quality and good understanding, not cramming to try and get it all. You never will. And that is a blessing right there, if you think about it.
Thank you for letting me edit. Not a problem. Well, maybe one problem- your handwriting puts mine to shame! But I'll get over it- good job.
Hang in there. It can be a lonely journey in many ways, and full of problems. But it is more than worth it. And many churches are becoming more open to Mesianic interpretations. Some even want to hear your views on scripture. Not that they will convert (unless God lets 'em eat bacon and decorate a tree once a year- oh, and then there's that rabbit ...), but they know good understanding and better interpolation when they hear it. But even if you find no Messianic synagogue or accepting church the knowledge and true understanding of Gods' word is worth it.
There probably will be necessary compromises along the way. But as you go you'll learn to minimize those. My wife is Christian (she was raised Jewish, but converted with a passion- she calls MJ my "little mishigas"), so I know some of the difficulties of living in a split household. But they can be mostly overcome with time, prayer, and a little effort.
Hold tight to the truth, and if you need help we'll be here.
Dan
|
|
- there are 70 faces to 
